I'll fight Beazley for a fifth term: PM (1 Viewer)

[walrusbear]

woah my argument was misinterpreted and overextended

i was saying not to assume that popularity and quality correlate.
sure there are exceptions, though not in this case imo.
fuck howard is shit

 

[c_james]

That was the Presidential election, not the Reichstag eletion. Although becoming President would have made reforming Germany's political system much more easier, he couldn't beat old Hindy, so he had to do it the hard way and make the NSDAP the largest party in the Reichstag instead, allowing him to be Chancellor.

Asquithian was reffering to his crushing Reichstag victory, y'know, when he took 230 seats.

Correct, but the presidential election is where the people are more likely to choose the candidate they like best, obviously. The point is that Hindenburg was old and senile, but even he was more popular than Hitler - the people weren't stupid. You also have to consider that Germany's brand of democracy was very inefficient, with many loopholes such as those created by the Weimar Constituion.

 

[walrusbear]

why is hitler still being discussed?

 

[Rorix]

i was saying not to assume that popularity and quality correlate.

I am saying that popularity and quality do have a positive correlation.

sure there are exceptions, though not in this case imo.

I would claim that the cases where they do not are the exceptions.

fuck howard is shit

....

 

[c_james]

I'd say it's a somewhat relevant precedent.

 

[walrusbear]

I am saying that popularity and quality do have a positive correlation.



I would claim that the cases where they do not are the exceptions.




....

don't believe in manufactured consent and deception etc??
the populace is the easiest to deceive. i thought popularity was manipulated all the time to match any set of quality or agenda people in power want

 

[walrusbear]

I'd say it's a somewhat relevant precedent.

well if only an extreme way of debunking popularity = quality ala Rorix's reasoning

 

[Not-That-Bright]

don't believe in manufactured consent and deception etc??
the populace is the easiest to deceive. i thought popularity was manipulated all the time to match any set of quality or agenda people in power want

Walrusbear, most empiricle evidence debunks the main ascertions of Manufacturing consent. But that is a wider accademic debate.

 

[walrusbear]

Walrusbear, most empiricle evidence debunks the main ascertions of Manufacturing consent. But that is a wider accademic debate.

well the problem there lies in 'empirical evidence'
i'm quite cynical of such a notion generally

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Well for example, i'd say the most coverage of the iraq war post-invasion was on Abu-Grahyb(sp?), which totally goes against one of the main ascertions of manufacturing consent that the media would skew the truth to portray media in a positive light.

I would say that while it is a very interesting concept, and relevant to think about, it doesn't apply to all situations.

 

[walrusbear]

Well for example, i'd say the most coverage of the iraq war post-invasion was on Abu-Grahyb(sp?), which totally goes against one of the main ascertions of manufacturing consent that the media would skew the truth to portray media in a positive light.

I would say that while it is a very interesting concept, and relevant to think about, it doesn't apply to all situations.

i'd have thought it was quite relevant regarding the iraq invasion
particularly on the us front

actually
did the us really get consent? only domestically i suppose

 

[Rorix]

don't believe in manufactured consent and deception etc??
the populace is the easiest to deceive. i thought popularity was manipulated all the time to match any set of quality or agenda people in power want

If this were true, then the population would be manipulated by the government in power to vote for them, over and over, again and again, and power would never change hands. Your view clearly needs some moderation.

Regarding empirical evidence, if there is empirical evidence opposing your view point, and there is no empirical evidence for your viewpoint, especially for one which cannot be proven logically, then such evidence should be considered as reflecting negatively on your position. If your statement is true, it should be observable, generally speaking. Until you can prove that such a statement is unobservable, empirical evidence is relevant and can't be dismissed just because you don't agree with it.

well if only an extreme way of debunking popularity = quality ala Rorix's reasoning

For the second time, you misrepresent what I was saying, despite me having clarified in 3 times earlier. My position is that there is a positive correlation between quality and popularity.

THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT POPULARITY AND QUALITY EQUATE
IT MEANS THAT, IN GENERAL, PRIME MINISTERS WHO ARE QUALITY TEND TO BE POPULAR.
okay?

 

[Phanatical]

The Treasurer's real job in parliament is to take all the crap of the Government. If it weren't for Costello, Howard would look even MORE like shit.

The fact that Costello isn't the most reviled person in Australia after TEN budgets indicates to me that if were elevated to Prime Minister, he'd probably be even more popular than Howard.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

The Treasurer's real job in parliament is to take all the crap of the Government. If it weren't for Costello, Howard would look even MORE like shit.

The fact that Costello isn't the most reviled person in Australia after TEN budgets indicates to me that if were elevated to Prime Minister, he'd probably be even more popular than Howard.

Phanatical it's all about image, he needs an image makeover.
While people are happy with his handling of the economy, i believe he needs to warm up a little more. At the moment he's like a stone cold accountant.

Politics is 70% image, 30% policy IMO.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Conservatives don't rock the boat eh?

- Iraq War
- GST
- IR Reform
- Etc...

I could go on, but i really don't want to.

Asquithian, that is partially true.. however it's more like "As long as the majority of people think they are getting a better deal under the current government, than another, they will be kept in power".

 

[Iron]

Whitlam wasnt elected on a bad economy. He just looked less like a Koala. And everyone knew he'd rock the boat.
I might further be so brash, so crass, so devilishly droll as to suggest that 2001 saw so much conservative boat rocking activity, that children appeared to fall out of it.

 

[transcendent]

Why hasn't anyone commented on the recent articles highlighting Costello's ultimatum aimed at Howard?

 

[transcendent]

The media seems to be making a HUGE fuss about it

 

[Not-That-Bright]

u are right asquithian, in one respect.
I do miss the big projects, the inspiring feats that we can be proud of.

i.e. WHY isn't there a high-speed rail line to sydney? or up the coast of nsw? IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!

 

[Iron]

It would be interesting to see who leads when Howard and Jannette dance