Important: Anti-vsu Rally (2 Viewers)

[Rorix]

Regarding the financial statements that Xayma linked to
Approximately
Net Catering (900,000)
Clubs and Societies (470,000)

So, in order to cover the two main alleged problems with VSU [loss of union food outlets and death of clubs/socieities] the union only needs approx 1.4M (assuming the wages fall under catering expense, the financial statements aren't very detailed), 1.2M of which comes from rental and the negatives can obviously be easily offset with a slight rise in prices for non-members (given that there will be more) and a rise in the price of clubs+socs


Indeed if we approximate nonunion prices as being 15% higher than union prices and assume that 30000 students don't pay union fees next year, and spend on average 300 a year at uni on food, that's an extra 1.35M in revenue without any changing of the prices.

certainly no need for 14.19M in compulsory contributions like this year to have clubs and societies and union food outlets.

 

[Phanatical]

Also note that under VSU, funding to societies will be cut according to how many union members remain within the society. At the moment, we gain funding for events at a set rate per union member.

There is also the possibility that non-union members may no longer be eligible to hold office within the society, so we may find that a bunch of societies will be seceding from the Union and going off independent.

 

[Plebeian]

Regarding the financial statements that Xayma linked to
Approximately
Net Catering (900,000)
Clubs and Societies (470,000)

So, in order to cover the two main alleged problems with VSU [loss of union food outlets and death of clubs/socieities] the union only needs approx 1.4M (assuming the wages fall under catering expense, the financial statements aren't very detailed), 1.2M of which comes from rental and the negatives can obviously be easily offset with a slight rise in prices for non-members (given that there will be more) and a rise in the price of clubs+socs


Indeed if we approximate nonunion prices as being 15% higher than union prices and assume that 30000 students don't pay union fees next year, and spend on average 300 a year at uni on food, that's an extra 1.35M in revenue without any changing of the prices.

certainly no need for 14.19M in compulsory contributions like this year to have clubs and societies and union food outlets.

There is also the SRC, which provides many essential services, as well as student representation, yet has no real revenue-raising arm to support itself with. This is the main reason why the Government's model of VSU is bad ... because it is not designed to address some of the issues that currently exist, or make the system fairer for everyone, it is designed to wipe everything out so it doesn't exist at all.

 

[grk_styl]

I personally think someone as young as you supporting the libs is wrong.

that's nice to know...
but every individual is different.
what i can't understand is that why all uni people try to enforce "HATE LIBS! GO LABOR!" into everyone's minds!

i'm happy. i don't have any complaints about the government or what they're doing (apart from petrol prices, coz i now have a hole in my wallet )

so yeh i'm entitled to my opinion and so is that random guy with the t-shirt. but i find him (and all others with a t-shirt like that) VERY offensive.

and i bet if i walked around with "FUCK YOU LABOR SCUM" - you (and other labor fans) would chuck the biggest skitz in town.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I personally think someone as young as you supporting the libs is wrong.

lol 'too young' to support the libs.
So that's what it's about for u, being 'hip', being 'cool'.
I guess u can't expect much more than that for a guy who has a picture of someone smoking in their avatar "OMFG U HARDKUNT!"

 

[stazi]

lol 'too young' to support the libs.
So that's what it's about for u, being 'hip', being 'cool'.
I guess u can't expect much more than that for a guy who has a picture of someone smoking in their avatar "OMFG U HARDKUNT!"

No. I just think its wrong for someone our age to be so damn money-minded. It's not a matter of being 'hip'. If I wanted to be hip I would join the Greens. As they are very cool. Nothing like their radical policies on caged animals.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Money-Minded? Ever heard of neo-liberals? Belief that you can achieve social justice through a strong economy...

 

[stazi]

I have heard of neo-liberals. Do they exist in power at the moment? No. In fact I would be happy voting for the liberal party if they took the neoliberal approach to running the economy. However, I do not see this as the case. Nor do I agree with a majority of their policies.
I don't however agree with half of what Labor says either.
So it's the cliched 'the lesser of two evils' for me, as I can't stand John Howard or most of what he says or stands for. Also there's the bushy eyebrows.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I disagree with the neo-liberal 'approach' to running the economy. But i do believe a strong free-market economy with SOME (very few) regulations to make sure consumers/workers aren't being ripped off leads to a better society.

 

[stazi]

Oh yes. I couldn't agree with you more there. I just see labour doing a better job here. The liberals as far as I can see are focussing on deregulation to such an extent that the state won't have much of a role anymore. To a certain extent that would be good. The free-market economy becomes freer and stronger. I fear the framework that would be made to make sure the role of the state in industrial relations id dissolved, would favour the corporations.

 

[Xayma]

Really you see Labour doing a good job here, I can't even see them at all. Wow magic.

 

[stazi]

Really you see Labour doing a good job here, I can't even see them at all. Wow magic.

I see Bush a lot. I mean he's everywhere. He's constantly planning out new ways to deregulate the rights of workers. To earn more money for the economy at the expense of others. To slaughter innocent people. But I don't see his opposition much.
By your logic if someone in power is seen more than someone who is not, then they are much better? I saw a lot of labor before the elections. It's the same anywhere in the world.

 

[Xayma]

Actually that was more pointing out your misspelling of Labor in the above post, something that really destroys any credibility you have (since it is a common mistake amoung those who don't even know what the parties do).

 

[grk_styl]

Actually that was more pointing out your misspelling of Labor in the above post, something that really destroys any credibility you have (since it is a common mistake amoung those who don't even know what the parties do).

SCORE!

 

[stazi]

Actually that was more pointing out your misspelling of Labor in the above post, something that really destroys any credibility you have (since it is a common mistake amoung those who don't even know what the parties do).

I'm speechless. I trully am. Wow, you're going to go for a spelling mistake? I spelt Labor correctly in the other posts. I thought that we were far above criticising people for simple spelling errors, especially when someone's spelling is at most of the time nearly perfect. Great argument.
"Insert insightful comment here"
"Oh yeah, you spelt that wrong. You must not know what they do!"

 

[stazi]

OH WAIT!!! AHAHHAHAHA YOU'RE SAYING ITS SPELT LABOUR!!!! AHHAHAH
Hmmm... i would like to reward you with a flower. A poison flower that decomposes your insides. Perhaps you are the one who doesn't know what the LABOR party does as you can't spell it correctly. No, sorry. That would be immature of me.

 

[Minai]

There is also the SRC, which provides many essential services, as well as student representation, yet has no real revenue-raising arm to support itself with. This is the main reason why the Government's model of VSU is bad ... because it is not designed to address some of the issues that currently exist, or make the system fairer for everyone, it is designed to wipe everything out so it doesn't exist at all.

That's the BEST part of the VSU legislation. It's already been proven that the Union's will survive on other revenue reciepts. But SRC/Student Councils will struggle. Why is this good? Because they are self-interested, corrupt individuals. They take our money and fund their own political campaigns, fund their interstate travels, fund their own fully-catered, closed executive meetings. I could go on. But as soon as the student councils stop blatantly wasting student's money on their own private endeavour's and start becoming a more efficient organisation, and learning to pay for their own campaigns themselves, then they'd deserve our money. Unions I have no problem paying money for them to maintain "essential services". But I, for one, do not see the student councils as an "essential service"

For some examples, look at Macquarie Uni's student council (MUSC)
Look at UNSW's Guild (currently being taken to court over unfair enterprise agreements with their full-time, non-student staff)

 

[Generator]

That's the BEST part of the VSU legislation. It's already been proven that the Union's will survive on other revenue reciepts. But SRC/Student Councils will struggle. Why is this good? Because they are self-interested, corrupt individuals. They take our money and fund their own political campaigns, fund their interstate travels, fund their own fully-catered, closed executive meetings. I could go on. But as soon as the student councils stop blatantly wasting student's money on their own private endeavour's and start becoming a more efficient organisation, and learning to pay for their own campaigns themselves, then they'd deserve our money. Unions I have no problem paying money for them to maintain "essential services". But I, for one, do not see the student councils as an "essential service"

At least you qualified that (at the end) with an 'I for one'. I believe that techie was referring to the legal, financial and academic aid services more so than the SRC's advocacy/political role (even though that is important, if at times misguided in a populist sense).

 

[Xayma]

OH WAIT!!! AHAHHAHAHA YOU'RE SAYING ITS SPELT LABOUR!!!! AHHAHAH
Hmmm... i would like to reward you with a flower. A poison flower that decomposes your insides. Perhaps you are the one who doesn't know what the LABOR party does as you can't spell it correctly. No, sorry. That would be immature of me.

I did spell what I was intending correctly. If you reread my statement it required spelling it Labour as you had done in a previous post. In any case it doesn't really matter, but you weren't the first (and wont be the last) one to do it.

 

[Plebeian]

That's the BEST part of the VSU legislation. It's already been proven that the Union's will survive on other revenue reciepts. But SRC/Student Councils will struggle. Why is this good? Because they are self-interested, corrupt individuals. They take our money and fund their own political campaigns, fund their interstate travels, fund their own fully-catered, closed executive meetings. I could go on. But as soon as the student councils stop blatantly wasting student's money on their own private endeavour's and start becoming a more efficient organisation, and learning to pay for their own campaigns themselves, then they'd deserve our money. Unions I have no problem paying money for them to maintain "essential services". But I, for one, do not see the student councils as an "essential service"

For a start, it is far from certain that the Union will be able to maintain its current level of activity if half of its revenue is removed. Just because something manages to barely 'survive' doesn't mean it's functioning well.

Also, you seem to be making some pretty sweeping generalisations. To suggest that every SRC member is "corrupt" is obviously untrue. It's also interesting that you said they are wasting our money on
1) election campaigns;
2) interstate travel (I assume you mean to interstate conferences of the NUS, and such things, because SRC members are not simply allowed to take funds for holidays);
3) executive meetings.
All of these things are clearly parts of what SRCs have to do! If you had said they were corrupt, because they are wasting our money on buying themselves stuff or something else which actually is an illegitimate use of our money, that would be an acceptable argument (though still false). But citing day-to-day operations of a political body, which obviously need to be funded by student contributions if that body is to exist, as evidence of corruption and waste doesn't seem to prove anything, to me.

BTW, while you're suggesting that student representatives start paying for their own campaigns, official travel and meetings by themselves, you may want to extend that to Federal Parliament. People who wish to stand for office receive funding from the Electoral Commission; MP's have travel allowances and completely catered meetings. All of these things come out of our tax dollars, because they are necessary operations we accept in order to have political representation in our society.