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is getting a band 6 for a subject only from the external mark? (1 Viewer)

charmingman

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I want to get a band 6 in my subjects but my internal marks are bad and my school is bad, however my ranks are alrite (top 3).
 

OkDen

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EDIT: Internal Marks DO count.

I suggest you look at the other subjects that you do here:

http://www.boardofstudies.nsw.edu.au/ebos/static/BDHSC_2017_12.html

and look at what you need to do to be able to perform at a band 6 level (in the HSC, where it TRULY matters).

For example, in 2017 over 60% of the English Advanced candidates achieved band 5+, which means they had either achieved:

Band 6 -
Demonstrates extensive, detailed knowledge, insightful understanding and sophisticated evaluation of the ways meanings are shaped and changed by context, medium of production and the influences that produce different responses to texts. Displays a highly developed ability to describe and analyse a broad range of language forms, features and structures of texts and explain the ways these shape meaning and influence responses in a variety of texts and contexts. Presents a critical, refined personal response showing highly developed skills in interpretation, analysis, synthesis and evaluation of texts and textual detail. Composes imaginatively, interpretively and critically with sustained precision, flair, originality and sophistication for a variety of audiences, purposes and contexts in order to explore and communicate ideas, information and values.

Band 5 -
Demonstrates detailed knowledge, perceptive understanding and effective evaluation of the ways meanings are shaped and changed by context, medium of production and the influences that produce different responses to texts. Displays a well-developed ability to describe and analyse a broad range of language forms, features and structures of texts and explain the ways these shape meaning and influence responses in a variety of texts and contexts. Presents a critical personal response showing well-developed skills in interpretation, analysis, synthesis and evaluation of texts and textual detail. Composes imaginatively, interpretively and critically with flair, originality and control for a variety of audiences, purposes and contexts in order to explore and communicate ideas, information and values.

Source: http://www.boardofstudies.nsw.edu.au/ebos/static/BDHSC_2017_12_15140.html
 
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BLIT2014

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I mean the external HSC exam contributes to 50% of your ATAR so it is certainly possible.
 

D94

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Internal Marks don't count at all.
They do count. They are a factor in how your school mark will be moderated. 'How 'well' your school mark will be moderated will depend on the cohort's efforts in the exam.
 

eddydundee

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They do count. They are a factor in how your school mark will be moderated. 'How 'well' your school mark will be moderated will depend on the cohort's efforts in the exam.
so do they count for 50% of the ATAR?
 

blyatman

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The actual mark given to you at school doesn't count. Only your rank does.

Edit: Forgot to add: The HSC school mark is 50% of your overall HSC mark for that subject. A band 6 means your overall HSC mark was >= 90. The HSC school marks are determined from your rank and the exam marks of your cohort relative to you. The actual mark your school gives you on your final report is irrelevant.
 
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D94

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The actual mark given to you at school doesn't count. Only your rank does.

Edit: Forgot to add: The HSC school mark is 50% of your overall HSC mark for that subject. A band 6 means your overall HSC mark was >= 90. The HSC school marks are determined from your rank and the exam marks of your cohort relative to you. The actual mark your school gives you on your final report is irrelevant.
That's not true. Your moderated assessment is a function of the following variables: highest raw assessment mark, lowest raw assessment mark, average of the raw assessment marks, standard deviation of the raw assessment marks, highest HSC exam mark, lowest HSC exam mark and the average of the HSC exam marks.

It is therefore not only important to do well in the HSC exam, but also important to achieve a high mark at school (i.e. raw assessment mark).

At no point, I repeat, no point, is your ranking used to determine your moderated assessment mark.

so do they count for 50% of the ATAR?
Once moderated, yes.
 

blyatman

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That's not true. Your moderated assessment is a function of the following variables: highest raw assessment mark, lowest raw assessment mark, average of the raw assessment marks, standard deviation of the raw assessment marks, highest HSC exam mark, lowest HSC exam mark and the average of the HSC exam marks.

It is therefore not only important to do well in the HSC exam, but also important to achieve a high mark at school (i.e. raw assessment mark).

At no point, I repeat, no point, is your ranking used to determine your moderated assessment mark.
Do you have sources for this information? Because I have never read a single source that claims that school asessment marks are relevant. Furthermore, your rank is absolutely everything, and is the strongest factor in determining your HSC assessment mark.

Your HSC assessment mark is determined from your rank and the HSC exam marks of the students in your cohort. At no point are the individual marks of your school assessments used in the calculation of your HSC assessment mark. You cannot compare school assessments between schools. 80% raw at James Ruse is not the same as 80% raw in some school ranked 500th. Comparing raw assessment marks between schools is like comparing apples to oranges - it can't be done and it is meaningless to try. So the way they determine your HSC school assessment mark is through your rank, and the HSC exam marks of your cohort.

If you came 1st in your school, your HSC assessment mark is taken to be the highest exam mark received by your cohort. If you came 2nd, your HSC assessment mark is taken to be the second highest exam mark. This is how they calculate your HSC assessment mark, and any teacher can confirm this.

Source: https://www.matrix.edu.au/beginners-guide-to-atar-scaling/how-hsc-marks-are-calculated/

Edit: See also p9 of the UAC scaling guide: https://www.uac.edu.au/assets/documents/scaling-reports/Scaling-Report-2017-NSW-HSC.pdf

See also from NESA: http://educationstandards.nsw.edu.au/wps/portal/nesa/11-12/hsc/about-HSC/moderation

They all state the same thing. The video in the last link for NESA explains it pretty well. Quoting from the video: "your RANK is the most important part of the moderation process." The notion that your ranking does not affect the moderated assessment mark is completely untrue.
 
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D94

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You are categorically incorrect on several points. I'll explain:

Do you have sources for this information? Because I have never read a single source that claims that school asessment marks are relevant. Furthermore, your rank is absolutely everything, and is the strongest factor in determining your HSC assessment mark.
Refer "The Moderation of Higher School Certificate Assessments using a Quadratic Polynomial Transformation: a Technical Paper" by Dr Robert MacCann, who designed the HSC moderation process that has been used since 1992. Furthermore, http://educationstandards.nsw.edu.au/wps/portal/nesa/11-12/hsc/about-HSC/moderation confirms my understanding, to be explained below.


Your HSC assessment mark is determined from your rank and the HSC exam marks of the students in your cohort. At no point are the individual marks of your school assessments used in the calculation of your HSC assessment mark.
This is incorrect. Refer http://educationstandards.nsw.edu.au/wps/portal/nesa/11-12/hsc/about-HSC/moderation where it states "The relative gaps between the students’ moderated assessments are similar to the relative gaps between students as shown in the school assessment marks". This is achievable if and only if the school assessment marks are used to calculate the moderated assessment mark.


You cannot compare school assessments between schools. 80% raw at James Ruse is not the same as 80% raw in some school ranked 500th. Comparing raw assessment marks between schools is like comparing apples to oranges - it can't be done and it is meaningless to try.
Correct, hence the process of moderation.


So the way they determine your HSC school assessment mark is through your rank, and the HSC exam marks of your cohort.
Incorrect, refer above.


If you came 1st in your school, your HSC assessment mark is taken to be the highest exam mark received by your cohort.
Correct, the moderated assessment mark of the student who has the highest school assessment mark will be aligned to equal the highest HSC exam mark of any student in the cohort.


If you came 2nd, your HSC assessment mark is taken to be the second highest exam mark.
Incorrect, and probably the biggest misunderstanding of the entire moderation process. Refer: http://educationstandards.nsw.edu.au/wps/portal/nesa/11-12/hsc/about-HSC/moderation where the example given clearly shows the moderated assessment mark of the student ranked 2nd (a mark of 77) did not receive the 2nd highest HSC exam mark (a mark of 80). This is due to the requirement to maintain relative gaps between students.


This is how they calculate your HSC assessment mark, and any teacher can confirm this.
No, teachers are not sources of truth and an informed teacher would agree with my understanding.


Matrix Education is not an authoritative source. They are incorrect in their explanation on how to calculate the moderated assessment mark.


Nothing in that link contradicts what I have said. It's all fairly generic information and intended to be because UAC does not moderate marks. They simply process the raw moderated assessment marks as given by NESA.


See also from NESA: http://educationstandards.nsw.edu.au/wps/portal/nesa/11-12/hsc/about-HSC/moderation

They all state the same thing. The video in the last link for NESA explains it pretty well. Quoting from the video: "your RANK is the most important part of the moderation process." The notion that your ranking does not affect the moderated assessment mark is completely untrue.
That video is not technical. It's a layman's explanation for students and teachers who are not bothered to read the entire website or do not understand the technical process. To explain what David de Carvalho is referring to, listen to what he goes on to say: "It tells us how you did compared to other students in your school group". This means two things: 1) You are not being compared to students at other schools; and 2) Your rank order is maintained when the moderation process is carried out. This is why it is important, not because it is used to calculate your moderated assessment mark. Regardless, your rank, i.e. 1st, 2nd, 3rd, is not a variable that is used to calculate the moderated assessment mark.
 

blyatman

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My apologies, I grossly misinterpreted a few of your previous points in my response:

At no point, I repeat, no point, is your ranking used to determine your moderated assessment mark.
I interpreted that as you saying your ranks were absolutely not taken into consideration (rather than meaning they're not used as a direct input, but are still used to maintain the relative alignment of the students HSC assessment marks). I.e. I thought you meant the rank was as unimportant as the colour of your shirt.

It is therefore not only important to do well in the HSC exam, but also important to achieve a high mark at school (i.e. raw assessment mark).
I interpreted that as you saying the actual mark you get matters (rather than meaning it's the mark you get relative to your cohort that matters e.g. it doesn't matter if your school mark was 60, if the highest was 61 and you were ranked 2nd).

"The relative gaps between the students’ moderated assessments are similar to the relative gaps between students as shown in the school assessment marks".
Fair point, I stand corrected.

Your moderated assessment is a function of the following variables: highest raw assessment mark, lowest raw assessment mark, average of the raw assessment marks, standard deviation of the raw assessment marks, highest HSC exam mark, lowest HSC exam mark and the average of the HSC exam marks.
Makes sense, though from the NESA website: "Please also note that the standard deviation is never used to moderate school assessment marks.". But I'm not exactly sure if they're referring to the SD of the raw school or HSC exam marks.
 
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