Is my schools new rule actually allowed?! (2 Viewers)

[ajdlinux]

And besides, the school doesn't give BOS ranks, it gives BOS marks, and BOS works out the ranks. And they can't go around arbitrarily changing assessment marks, or at least, they shouldn't.

 

[cem]

BOS calculates marks to several decimal places. I find it hard to believe they'd round off school assessment marks before working out ranks.

BOS is given whole numbers from the schools so they don't calculate marks to several decimal places.

Schools may round off assessment marks or add them to one or two decimal places (or more) - that is for the school to decide.

 

[cem]

ur teacher is right.. i did 4 unit maths last year.. this girl and I were close and ended up getting 1st overall.. He gave her 99 and I got 98.. In the hsc We both got 98.. dw about it.. And ur teacher is correct, there a can only be one person ranked first

No - you can have multiple people ranked first - I have done so a number of times and the BOS even says what it will do in that case - average the top internals to the number of equals and give that mark as the top internal mark. They also do the same at the bottom unless there is something unusual in the last positioning. I have sent in multiple firsts, multiple lasts and multiple in the middles over the years.

The BOS wouldn't have a scenario to explain what it will do in the case of equal first place-getters if it didn't allow equal firsts.

 

[ajdlinux]

BOS is given whole numbers from the schools so they don't calculate marks to several decimal places.

Schools may round off assessment marks or add them to one or two decimal places (or more) - that is for the school to decide.

I stand corrected then. That's... interesting, given that BOS definitely does calculate marks very precisely on their end (exam papers, moderation, scaling). Leaving it up to the school to decide whether or not to round off causes problems IMO.

 

[danjw]

Okay so guys in a nutshell, if I do get ranked as second what do you think would be the overall affect on my marks/ATAR calculation because that's all I'm really worried about?

 

[Aindan]

i know they do this for economics and possibly other subjects in our school. The eco head teacher said that they only allow for 1 1st, as advised from the board of studies. Basically, so there are 2 people tied first on an equal course mark of 92, but person A gets 92.3 and person B gets 91.9. In this case, they send the raw school mark of person A as 93 and the raw school mark of person B to be 92.

 

[Aerath]

i know they do this for economics and possibly other subjects in our school. The eco head teacher said that they only allow for 1 1st, as advised from the board of studies. Basically, so there are 2 people tied first on an equal course mark of 92, but person A gets 92.3 and person B gets 91.9. In this case, they send the raw school mark of person A as 93 and the raw school mark of person B to be 92.

It's absolutely not true at all.

If it were the case, your school (from your profile, Fort Street), would be tampering with student's marks, and would have its own segment on Today Tonight/ACA.

 

[someth1ng]

Your internal means nothing anyway. I'm quite sure they can do that to separate the 1st and 2nd if there is a small difference.

 

[Aerath]

Your internal means nothing anyway. I'm quite sure they can do that to separate the 1st and 2nd if there is a small difference.

Yeah, if there is a legitimate difference, then obviously the school is allowed to separate you. But what some of the posters above (mattyr1 and Aidan) are suggesting is that it is impossible for two people who have achieved the same marks throughout the year to be on the same mark/rank.

 

[mark H]

Yeah, if there is a legitimate difference, then obviously the school is allowed to separate you. But what some of the posters above (mattyr1 and Aidan) are suggesting is that it is impossible for two people who have achieved the same marks throughout the year to be on the same mark/rank.

What? What if for every assessment task they get 100%

 

[Aerath]

What? What if for every assessment task they get 100%

That's -exactly- my point, it's -exactly- what I have been arguing. Others seem to disagree though, and say that only one person can be first.

 

[cem]

i know they do this for economics and possibly other subjects in our school. The eco head teacher said that they only allow for 1 1st, as advised from the board of studies. Basically, so there are 2 people tied first on an equal course mark of 92, but person A gets 92.3 and person B gets 91.9. In this case, they send the raw school mark of person A as 93 and the raw school mark of person B to be 92.

Your teacher is wrong to say the BOS only allows one 1st place - I have certainly sent in 2 or even 3 equal firsts on numerous occasions - no problem. The BOS has clearly explained what happens to internal marks in that case as well - something they wouldn't need to do if only one 1st place was allowed.

However, your school can separate students when it is clear that there is a difference 0.4 is a clear enough difference but 0.0004 isn't. Although they round to the same mark they can be separated by the difference between them.

If two students both had the same marks e.g. 94.3 and 94.3 then they shouldn't be separated and would have to go in equal first.

If they both got 100 for every task then they get equal first.

 

[SpreadTheWord]

Its fair because if they are tied, and one will do worse, the maximum mark the school gets for internals will be lower. E.g. if one is on first the other second, and 97 is the highest external mark, then 97 will be the highest internal one as well, but if say, they are tied and one gets 97 the other 93, then 95 will be the highest internal mark. Its better for the cohort like this.

I don't think this kid is doing it for the cohort mate. Who cares how the cohort benefit/ or don't, at the end of the day it's his future, so if i was in that situation i would not give a toss about how possibly jeopardising my mark would be benefit the year. Also OP, they cannot do that, if you are both equally tied; then you are both 1st fullstop. Fight your corner mate.

 

[Aindan]

Your teacher is wrong to say the BOS only allows one 1st place - I have certainly sent in 2 or even 3 equal firsts on numerous occasions - no problem. The BOS has clearly explained what happens to internal marks in that case as well - something they wouldn't need to do if only one 1st place was allowed.

However, your school can separate students when it is clear that there is a difference 0.4 is a clear enough difference but 0.0004 isn't. Although they round to the same mark they can be separated by the difference between them.

If two students both had the same marks e.g. 94.3 and 94.3 then they shouldn't be separated and would have to go in equal first.

If they both got 100 for every task then they get equal first.

you're right. I think they only do that when there is a noticable difference in course marks although they do end up rounding to the same thing. When course marks are exactly the same or are sufficiently small, let them be.

 

[BOSBOY]

Note that if a school submits assessment marks with two (or more) students tied on the top assessment mark, then the top moderated assessment mark is equal to the mean of the top two (or more) examination marks.
http://www.boardofstudies.nsw.edu.au/hsc-results/moderation.html

 

[danjw]

I don't think this kid is doing it for the cohort mate. Who cares how the cohort benefit/ or don't, at the end of the day it's his future, so if i was in that situation i would not give a toss about how possibly jeopardising my mark would be benefit the year. Also OP, they cannot do that, if you are both equally tied; then you are both 1st fullstop. Fight your corner mate.

This!
I go to a low ranked school and there are maybe 10 of us who have the potential to be successful and get into a decent uni, I've got the Uni of newcastle excellence award, the academic achievement award for our school, I'm topping all the sciences with my equal first in bio and I'm aiming for a high atar so frankly I don't give a fuck about how well the rest of the grade does I worked hard to get my marks and I want to be rewarded for them.

 

[cem]

This!
I go to a low ranked school and there are maybe 10 of us who have the potential to be successful and get into a decent uni, I've got the Uni of newcastle excellence award, the academic achievement award for our school, I'm topping all the sciences with my equal first in bio and I'm aiming for a high atar so frankly I don't give a fuck about how well the rest of the grade does I worked hard to get my marks and I want to be rewarded for them.

However helping you classmates can also have an unexpected reward for you. If you stuff up a paper, or find a paper that simply doesn't suit you, having strong students around you can prevent you not getting your reward. e.g. you say you are coming first but you muck up the bio paper and end up getting 81 but the equal first and say fourth get 90 and 84 you end up with 81+87=168 and thus 84 but if you don't help fourth then that second external mark could be your 81 making your marks 81+85+166 meaning a mark of 83 - one mark yes but each mark is important.