Islam Discussion (2 Viewers)

[veterandoggy]

doesnt the qua'ran encourage the mistreatment of infidels though, those who speak out against islam?

2:191And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/cruelty/long.html

if you are to defend that point it would be defending islam.

k ill check some, but they are too amny for me to bother with.

the above sounds like a distorted hadith said by the prophet...
OK, the above quote is full bull, im holding the quran in front of me

 

[hiphophooray123]

ok but is their any that encourage the mistreatment of those who speak out against islam?

 

[veterandoggy]

the idiot who made that website placed the words into his own: they are not word for word. so youll have to give me a sentence and ill have to tell you what itr really is

 

[veterandoggy]

ok but is their any that encourage the mistreatment of those who speak out against islam?

if there was, the prophet wouldnt let his captives roam freely in the mosque, and would also chain them, and why would he let them leave if they taught 10 muslims how to read and write?

 

[hiphophooray123]

Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. 2:191

2:193 And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers.

 

[veterandoggy]

where is it, what chap and verse

oh, w8, i need to scan the verse before it too

 

[veterandoggy]

stuff it: ill just type it out

2:190 and fight in the way of allah those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. truly, allah likes not the transgressors.
[this verse was the first one that was revealed in connection with jihad, but it was supplemented by verse 9:36]

2:191 and kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. and al-fitnah (polytheism) is worse than killing. and fight not with them at al masjid al haram (the sanctuary at makkah [the ka'bah]), unless they (first) fight you there. but if they attack you, then kill them. such is the recompense of the disbelievers

hey sasha, are you convinced of misinterpretations now????

this may be the verse used for jihad, but you can see that not all ofit is followed...

 

[veterandoggy]

im getting 9:36. wait a bit

ok

verily, the number of months with allah is twelve months (in a year) so was it ordained by allah on the day when he created the heavens and the earth; of them four are sacred (ie the 1st, 7th, 11th and 12th months of the islamc calendar). that is the right religion, so wrong not yourselvestherein, and fight the mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the oneness of allah) collectively as they fight against you collectively. but know that allah is with those who are al-muttaqun (the pious)

thats another verse anyone can play with to make a holy war...

 

[veterandoggy]

2:193 And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers.

LMAO, it is sooooo wrong.

it is

and fight them until there is no more fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with allah) and (all and every kind of) worship is for allah (alone). but if they cease, let there be no transgression except against the zalimun (the polytheists, and the wrongdoers).

 

[veterandoggy]

omg i just noticed: that was another play around with what the PROPHET said.

 

[veterandoggy]

And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they stop, let there be no more war, for god never loves the starter of wars

that is the better one

 

[veterandoggy]

hey!!! why didnt you ask christians to look at http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.htm and explain their bible too???

 

[veterandoggy]

Booyah!!!

i feel like giving a victory speech, but i know that you two didnt read the REAL verses of the quran. heck, you two arent even on...

but i'll be here tomorrow again to help clear up you doubts *cheery face*

 

[hiphophooray123]

hey!!! why didnt you ask christians to look at http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.htm and explain their bible too???

believe me, i criticise them too, besides look at the thread title

 

[hiphophooray123]

i feel like giving a victory speech, but i know that you two didnt read the REAL verses of the quran. heck, you two arent even on...

but i'll be here tomorrow again to help clear up you doubts *cheery face*

YEah sorry i wasn't online lol, i wasn't really arguing but i wanted clarafication because, you could understand, from my point of view i was pretty angry.


"and fight them until there is no more fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with allah) and (all and every kind of) worship is for allah (alone). but if they cease, let there be no transgression except against the zalimun (the polytheists, and the wrongdoers). "

but what does the qua'ran define as 'wrongdoing,' the fact that this verse says 'except,' ie, makes exceptions to transgression against the 'zalimun' is pretty outrageous imo, polytheists have the right to freedom of speech and beliefs too?

but what would islam define as 'wrongdoing,' (just asking a question not being a smartass) would they define non-belief in allah as 'wrongdoing?' If so, my point still stands.

 

[veterandoggy]

i understand. im going off now, but i guess you can look at that website knowing that it is a load of bull now. but not all of it is incorrect, only most of it

cya tomorrow if you want anything else...

 

[veterandoggy]

YEah sorry i wasn't online lol, i wasn't really arguing but i wanted clarafication because, you could understand, from my point of view i was pretty angry.


"and fight them until there is no more fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with allah) and (all and every kind of) worship is for allah (alone). but if they cease, let there be no transgression except against the zalimun (the polytheists, and the wrongdoers). "

but what does the qua'ran define as 'wrongdoing,' the fact that this verse says 'except,' ie, makes exceptions to transgression against the 'zalimun' is pretty outrageous imo, polytheists have the right to freedom of speech and beliefs too?

but what would islam define as 'wrongdoing,' (just asking a question not being a smartass) would they define non-belief in allah as 'wrongdoing?' If so, my point still stands.

its okay. yes, that may be a form i think, but remember other verses, and the prophets saying "allah never loves the starter of wars".

damn, i gotta go again...

 

[hiphophooray123]

but if thats a form, and other verses contradict it, then wouldn't that be a contradiction

 

[veterandoggy]

like i said before, you cant determine a contradiction unless you know the time it was revealed, the main reason for its revealing, and what it was trying to teach the companions at the time.

for instance, a verse was revealed which said that you will also be judged on what you think. the companions went to the prophet and complained that they couldnt control what was in their minds, so the prophet got angry and they said "we hear and obey." and went away. soon after another verse was sent down saying that you will not be accounted for what you think. anyone who finds these will say that this is a contradiction, but unless they know about the circumstances of revelation they will not have a correct interpretation.

 

[hiphophooray123]

well as it appears, its a contradiction in my eyes, lets leave it at that, context aside i thought religious documents were supposed to be 'timeless.'