Islam Discussion (2 Viewers)

[Liberator]

riiiiight.

zahid , it appears you are a loyal follower , but very lost in your cause. You preach of your god and claim he performs miracles. But your faith has closed up your vision to a near complete blindess. You are similar to a mad begger muttering words under his tongue. Your blindness is further made you lost. Theres obviously nothing anyone can do, however remember this, Satan can provide you with everything you secretly desired, but couldnt have because you try to please god and he denies it.
Those who denied god have risen to great highs in this life and have noone to thank for it but themselves. I am sorry lost child you and islam is a lost cuase.

 

[physician]

physician i dont think you answred his question. You just went on to say that women are not oppressed. it still leaves the question of satan manipulating mohammeds mind.

I did, didnt u read the rest of my post???, if u realise, my chief objective was to indicate that Islam does not teach any such form of bad behaviour, and the religion itself is still as pure as it was at the time of the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)...(Notice, I said the religion, not the people, I am not entitled to judge the poeple, but its beyond question that alot of people follow their desires and ignorant thoughts moreso than follow the correct teachings of the religion)...which is why i went on to say that women are not oppressed, I didnt post that up for mere entertainment!

maybe satan told mohammed alot of things that are concidered good, but that was just a cover up to his true motif of destroying islam and human kind. hhmmm. satan is all power and all wise.

I'll requote myself, because I did answer the question, please read carefully and understand the question that was being asked in the first place!

... Yes he is an expert manipulator, however, If Muhammad (peace be upon him) was influenced by satan, why does the Quran warn us against satan, and not say good about satan?

i'll just quote translations of some of the verses, describing satan!

"The angels fell down prostrate, everyone except Iblis (Satan) he was arrogant and became one of the disbelievers." (Saad: 74-75)

"And if the Devil should cause you to forget, sit not after the remembrance, with the congregation of wrong doers." (Al-An`am: 68)

"O you who believe! Follow not the footsteps of the Devil, for those who follow the footsteps of the Devil, he commands lewdness and evil." (An-Nur: 21)

"The devil promises you poverty and enjoins on you lewdness, but Allah promises you forgiveness from Himself and bounty." (Al-Baqarah: 268)


and just to add; Before we recite a verse from the Quran, we always say the following:

“I seek refuge in Allah from the cursed Devil.”

anyways, sorry if I went beyond what ur question was asking, however, the main point being that the teachings of Islam can sometimes be different to the actions of some 'muslims'... and whilst the followers of a religion can often offer a sufficient reflection of the teachings of the religion itself, the behaviour of some can often reflect not the teachings of the religion but merely the ignorance that one may posses of its teachings, rules, etc...

And perhaps this is why u believe satan had some devilish intelligent scheme and thus believe; I quote u:

satan told mohammed alot of things that are concidered good, but that was just a cover up to his true motif of destroying islam and human kind

But the fact of the matter is that the question itself is generalising and indicating that Islam is represnted by the minorty of suicide bombers u watch on the news, this is what the question indicates, whereas in reality, the teachings of Islam have not been transformed in such a manner where it can be interpreted to encourage terrorism and abuse against women... as I said ITS THE PEOPLE... Not the religion...If Muhammad (peace be upon him) was manipulated , and an evil plot really did exist, why does the religion of Islam still teach what it tought at the time of the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)???..It seems satan has failed miseraby... The people may have been manipluated! Yes, I agree, but that has nothing to do with the Quran... If the devil did have such an ingenious plan, why do we have murderers who are christian muslim, jewish, atheist, buddhist, hindu... etc etc etc.... We also have terrorists who are atheist, christian, muslim, jewish, buddhist hindu...etc etc etc... U need to understand, ITS THE PEOPLE... people dont become terrorists because they read the Quran... for all i know, an atheist may have never even heard of the Quarn, yet he may be a terrorist!!!

This is why I said, read about the religion, and do extensive reading, If u want to learn about Islam, dont go reading off some Non-muslim website, If I want to learn about christianity, I will visit a christian website not a muslim website. If i want to learn about budism, I will visit a website set up by buddhists, not by muslims, or christians!... in fact I would do most of my reading from hard copies.. rather than internet websites!

If u still believe I have not answered the question, then I think u will agree that the question itself is based on assumptions and u would have to agree because u urself said, I quote

maybe

end quote.


I quote what u said once again:

maybe satan told mohammed alot of things that are concidered good, but that was just a cover up to his true motif of destroying islam and human kind. hhmmm. satan is all power and all wise

Its a baseless argument to conclude that satan is all powerfull and all wise when the thought is merely something u may have come up with (or may have read off a website as I did the other day)

 

[mr EaZy]

After sept the 11th, my maths teacher said that Satan has influenced and manipulated islam in such a way that it has caused, and will cause, immeasurable pain and suffering.

That thought has stuck with me to this day, and every day it is absolved more and more.

O God! what are they brain washing kids these days
(u poor kid!)

Satan is an expert manipulator.. He can pretend to be anyone or anything.. He can fool humans and their senses.

Exactly, you should give that a further thought!

The Quran says more or less:
- The Truth is from God. So let him who wills- let him believe; and him who wills, let him disbelieve

- Truth is distinct from falsehood


You accused us with the same accusation the pharisees made to jesus and he replied: How can i repel the devil with falsehood?? (more or less)

Follow what has been revealed to you in the bible- go and read it. There is no trinity in there! Jesus prayed to God! And he taught you to worship God Alone!!

Now quoting the first verse i made above: We have a belief- a religion
That is Islam. You have your own beliefs and thats fine. Just show some tolerance for cryin out loud- I dont think ive met one person here who's said: Christianity is stupid or Atheism is stupid. WE're not into attacking other religions. It just shows how insecure and enraged you are that we are Muslims but you cant do anything about it. Yes Thats right! Nothing! In the end Islam's gonna triumph so i can just sit back and relax lol!!

 

[Not-That-Bright]

That is Islam. You have your own beliefs and thats fine. Just show some tolerance for cryin out loud- I dont think ive met one person here who's said: Christianity is stupid or Atheism is stupid. WE're not into attacking other religions. It just shows how insecure and enraged you are that we are Muslims but you cant do anything about it. Yes Thats right! Nothing! In the end Islam's gonna triumph so i can just sit back and relax lol!!

wtf shut up.

 

[Generator]

Islam's going to triumph? Really? Wow, that's so cool!

Be sure to send us all a postcard whenever that happens.

 

[SashatheMan]

Now quoting the first verse i made above: We have a belief- a religion
That is Islam. You have your own beliefs and thats fine. Just show some tolerance for cryin out loud- I dont think ive met one person here who's said: Christianity is stupid or Atheism is stupid. WE're not into attacking other religions. It just shows how insecure and enraged you are that we are Muslims but you cant do anything about it. Yes Thats right! Nothing! In the end Islam's gonna triumph so i can just sit back and relax lol

You have really gone delusional. You are cornered and have nowhere to run. So many flaws of the religion have been thrown at you, your mind snapped. You are just raving mad , muttering of islam in your lost mind.
Insane psychopaths on NY subways sound saner then you are when you say shit like that. Oh and by the way, islam is doomed

 

[sparkl3z]

so is christianity...so is every other religion, meh.....none of it makes sence :S

 

[TerrbleSpellor]

WE're not into attacking other religions.

Sorry, but that's not what history has shown.

It just shows how insecure and enraged you are that we are Muslims but you cant do anything about it. Yes Thats right! Nothing! In the end Islam's gonna triumph so i can just sit back and relax lol!!

No one has a problem with you being a Muslims. Just go back to the Middle east and be one, because you are the only religion which threatens the free world.

I really am wondering what it's going to take to snap most westerners into reality, but history shall absolve all hatred directed at Islam. Islam is oppressive, its horrible, and it's against every thing that i stand for.

 

[Chixidol]

One can ask the Pakistani Christians who have seen their churches destroyed after clearing the bodies of their children who were murdered inside them

Dear Princessj,a justification on the above quote will be much appreciated.Since,I am from Pakistan and nothing of sort happened in Pakistan as far as my knowledge is concerned.
Would you please highlight when,why and where this happened??


It is nothing,but a failing attempt to defame Islam.I have many of friends who are Hindus and Christians,and they are always telling that how Pakistan and Pakistanis have respected the rights of minority.

 

[physician]

No one has a problem with you being a Muslims. Just go back to the Middle east and be one, because you are the only religion which threatens the free world.

so r u saying Aussie converts (or reverts i should say) should go to the middle east.. U do know that Muslims dont all come from the middle east right?..how can u go back to the middle east when u never came from there in the first place.. and if u just want those who came from the middle east to go back to the middle east, then that would be discrimination, dont u think! (besides the only difference between an arab and non-arab Muslims, is the langauge, nothing else... althought the dishes prepeared at home are prolly different too.) And obviously that statement was not merely directed at Mr EaZy!

I really am wondering what it's going to take to snap most westerners into reality, but history shall absolve all hatred directed at Islam. Islam is oppressive, its horrible, and it's against every thing that i stand for.

everything u stand for?

Just go back to the Middle east

...

ok, so what exactly do u stand for?

only religion which threatens the free world

oh ok, so the next time a christian holds someone hostage, will chrsitianity fit into this category too?... the next time a buddhist, hindu or even a jew comits murder, will they fit into this category as well? I mean these actions do threaten the free world!

U need to understand, U cant judge a religion by its followers without having met the religion itself!

and U cant judge a religion simply by the action of 1 man... If i were to do just that, I would be saying christians, jews, buddhists, hindus...etc etc etc are terrorists, rapists, pedophiles...etc. But obviously thats not the case, its the PEOPLE, not the religion.

 

[TerrbleSpellor]

so r u saying Aussie converts (or reverts i should say) should go to the middle east..

Yes...

U do know that Muslims dont all come from the middle east right?..

So? If they love Islam, then they won't mind living in a lovely islamic society like afghanistan or Iraq.

how can u go back to the middle east when u never came from there in the first place..

Easy.. You pack your bags and get on a plane.

and if u just want those who came from the middle east to go back to the middle east, then that would be discrimination, dont u think! (besides the only difference between an arab and non-arab Muslims, is the langauge, nothing else...

I know

everything u stand for? ...
ok, so what exactly do u stand for?

Australia.

oh ok, so the next time a christian holds someone hostage, will chrsitianity fit into this category too?... the next time a buddhist, hindu or even a jew comits murder, will they fit into this category as well? I mean these actions do threaten the free world!

If a follower of these religions commits an act they do it independent of the religion. Muslims don't. Muslims by their very nature are terrorist inclined.. and if it isn't terrorism, it's just general incompatibility issues with our society. Like women for example. Most muslims believe if a women wears a bikini on the beach, that this is an invitation for her to be raped. Now i know you will spurt on with your rubbish about how men must respect women, or how its a terrible sin or some shit.. as you do with terrorism... But that doesn't mean that Muslims aren't that way inclined.

U need to understand, U cant judge a religion by its followers without having met the religion itself!

What?

and U cant judge a religion simply by the action of 1 man... If i were to do just that, I would be saying christians, jews, buddhists, hindus...etc etc etc are terrorists, rapists, pedophiles...etc. But obviously thats not the case, its the PEOPLE, not the religion.

The "PEOPLE" act that way because of your violent religion.

Name one islamic society which is nice to live in? It is only because a society is non-islamic, that it is a decent society. People in every islamic state around the world are oppressed, if not by the government then by citizens. People are attacked because of their beliefs or sexuality or what ever.

Muslims seem to think that Australians invited them in to invade us. Whilst this may have been what the ALP did, it wasn't what Australians did. The ALP in no way represents what Australians want.

 

[SashatheMan]

oh ok, so the next time a christian holds someone hostage, will chrsitianity fit into this category too?... the next time a buddhist, hindu or even a jew comits murder, will they fit into this category as well? I mean these actions do threaten the free world!

if they do hold up a hostage or murderes someone , its almost never done in the name os their religion. Theres been a considarable number of death related to islam recently then any other religion. and that is a concern with the religion. i am not saying you are , but obvuiously your people are the more likely to interperet the book in a butchery type of way.

 

[TerrbleSpellor]

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/1261/w832s3md.jpg
http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/4412/w832sa1td.jpg

 

[physician]

Yes...

well in that case, keep dreaming

So? If they love Islam, then they won't mind living in a lovely islamic society like afghanistan or Iraq.

U dont understand do u? The majority of muslims, are innocent of all these crimes and dont support them one bit! Once again ur judging the majority by merely looking at the minority, and when i say minority I mean MINORITY!

Easy.. You pack your bags and get on a plane.

no comment!!!

Australia.

So u stand for Australia, which means u stand for its values, can u please provide me with a list of Australian values... asking for Muslims to go live in the middle east just because theyre MUSLIM disgraces Australia, so clearly u dont uphold its values, and thus maybe u should re-think where exactly u stand and who it is u stand for!

If a follower of these religions commits an act they do it independent of the religion. Muslims don't. Muslims by their very nature are terrorist inclined

Not true, go and do some reading, ur in need, get off the telly for a split second!

and if it isn't terrorism, it's just general incompatibility issues with our society.

No, thats not the case, ur generalising once again!

Like women for example. Most muslims believe if a women wears a bikini on the beach, that this is an invitation for her to be raped

Most Muslims??? U seem to be very confident in ur claims!
Did it ever occur to u that most muslims dont even go to the beach... If people want to dress like that, thats not our problem, u either go to the beach and accept it, or u merely DONT GO TO THE BEACH... No sane person would be asking to be raped and even if they were, Islam would refer to rape as fornication (for someone not married) and Adultery (for someone whos married)... and the punishment is way too severe.

R u sure thats what muslims believe? That's not what muslims believe. Thats what U THINK muslims believe!!!

Most Muslims would lower their gaze at the site of a female wearing a bikini, let alone believe she's inviting them to be raped.

. Now i know you will spurt on with your rubbish about how men must respect women, or how its a terrible sin or some shit.. as you do with terrorism... But that doesn't mean that Muslims aren't that way inclined.

See, there u go again, ur believing what is being spoon fed to u by TV, newspapers etc, thus u choose to call the facts of the religion which im presenting to u "RUBISH' and choose to ignore the truth and accept and believe in the falsehood that is spread about the religion.

The "PEOPLE" act that way because of your violent religion.

Name one islamic society which is nice to live in? It is only because a society is non-islamic, that it is a decent society. People in every islamic state around the world are oppressed, if not by the government then by citizens. People are attacked because of their beliefs or sexuality or what ever.

hmmm.....so people in America are not oppressed, people in Australia are not oppressed, people in France are not oppressed, for whatever reason, whether it be sexulity, race, religion etc...???

As u just said, if not by the government then by citiczens, so really, no country is exempt from ur claims!

Muslims seem to think that Australians invited them in to invade us. Whilst this may have been what the ALP did, it wasn't what Australians did. The ALP in no way represents what Australians want.

THATS WHAT U THINK, not what muslims think!

step outside ur own thoughts for a moment.

Im a muslims and im telling u what I think, yet u still claim that "Muslims seem to think".. this just prooves to me that ur merely squirting out what uve been made to think!... re-examine what it really is that we think, and differentiate this from what U THINK we think!

 

[Generator]

Most Muslims??? U seem to be very confident in ur claims!
Did it ever occur to u that most muslims dont even go to the beach... If people want to dress like that, thats not our problem, u either go to the beach and accept it, or u merely DONT GO TO THE BEACH... No sane person would be asking to be raped and even if they were, Islam would refer to rape as fornication (for someone not married) and Adultery (for someone whos married)... and the punishment is way too severe.

'even if they were...'

It amazes me that some still wonder why Islam is criticised by many. However, as other reports show (e.g., this article), it isn't as though people such as yourself alone are of a warped frame of mind when it comes to sexual assualt.

 

[physician]

'even if they were...'

It amazes me that some still wonder why Islam is criticised by many.

I did say, 'even if they were', but I thought u'd find it obvious that no one would ask to be raped! And by some of the claims made by some poeople, it appears as though many seem to think Muslims arent eductaed, but i find that quite odd because all of us are educated under the same syllabi and same system!

 

[physician]

However, as other reports show (e.g., this article), it isn't as though people such as yourself alone are of a warped frame of mind when it comes to sexual assualt.

stop assuming what I think!

If a women is raped, its no ones fault but the male's... the woman is the victim for God's sake!... If someone gets killed, do u go about it saying oh, they asked for it, they looked depressed, they just wanted to die so i killed them...

I merely thought some people on these forums were far more observant to what was obvious, but it appears that I was far from right!

 

[Generator]

Ah, sorry, but you were the one who added the "if they were..." to the rebuttal, so such an assumption is be expected, especially given the comments of some (e.g., Sepulchures) in earlier threads.

I stand by it, too.

Edit:

R u sure thats what muslims believe? That's not what muslims believe. Thats what U THINK muslims believe!!!

Most Muslims would lower their gaze at the site of a female wearing a bikini, let alone believe she's inviting them to be raped.

So rather than respect another person's freedom to express themselves through their clothing, the religion suggests that it is to be avoided altogether? That's nothing more than a cop-out, don't you think?

 

[physician]

Ah, sorry, but you were the one who added the "if they were..." to the rebuttal, so such an assumption is be expected, especially given the comments of some (e.g., Sepulchures) in earlier threads.

I stand by it, too.

My apologies!

Edit:

So rather than respect another person's freedom to express themselves through their clothing, the religion suggests that it is to be avoided altogether? That's nothing more than a cop-out, don't you think?

well see theres a difference between accepting and respecting, I know u obviously know the difference, however, I would accept the fact that this is the way people want to dress, its their life not mine, but to respect it, that would mean I agree with the way they dress...whereas my religion does not agree with such a dress code...

In regards to "the religion suggests that it is to be avoided altogether"... well muslims males and females should lower their gaze when passing by a woman/man "no matter how she/he are dressed'... however, dressing in a bikini for example is unacceptable in Islam, so most people feel comfortable staying away from beaches, its merely for our own comfort, although alot of muslims do go to the beach, but many feel uncomfortable with the environment present on our beaches today, so I guess thats a choice one makes for themselves, for their own comfort... the same way some parents might feel uncomfortable in a night club, some muslims may feel uncomfortable at the beach...

I hope ive answered ur question, sorry if I havnt!

 

[Generator]

My apologies!




well see theres a difference between accepting and respecting, I know u obviously know the difference, however, I would accept the fact that this is the way people want to dress, its their life not mine, but to respect it, that would mean I agree with the way they dress...whereas my religion does not agree with such a dress code...

In regards to "the religion suggests that it is to be avoided altogether"... well muslims males and females should lower their gaze when passing by a woman/man "no matter how she/he are dressed'... however, dressing in a bikini for example is unacceptable in Islam, so most people feel comfortable staying away from beaches, its merely for our own comfort, although alot of muslims do go to the beach, but many feel uncomfortable with the environment present on our beaches today, so I guess thats a choice one makes for themselves, for their own comfort... the same way some parents might feel uncomfortable in a night club, some muslims may feel uncomfortable at the beach...

I hope ive answered ur question, sorry if I havnt!

You just reinforced the notion that rather than provide a social framework within which women (and men) may be respected for expressing themselves freely, Islam is of the opinion that such expressions are to be avoided altogether.

Edit: Physical expressions of individuality and sexuality, that is.