Islam Discussion (2 Viewers)

[veterandoggy]

yes parodies are humourous, much like the parody of the quran. Thats some funny stuff

yeh lol they sho ar funnay!!

 

[googooloo]

another way at looking at it , is that anything can be observed and then copied to a very similar standard. using the same example a replica of the mona lisa, looks exactly the same and i dont think that you can distinguish between a real and a fake without proper knowledge of it. so anything is possible to be copied to a very similar degree. once again yuor wrong.

Yes but hte Mona Lisa was ahuman creation, not the qur'an.

 

[googooloo]

All arguments about the koran being perfect, and this being a reason for believing are just bs... Wake up to yourselves muslims, It's sad.

Cheap attacks are useless. On the "Day of judgement", whihc you do not believe in, you will finally see, it's just a shame you cannot now. For of what the qur'an says of hell, I feel sorry for you, but in heaven (jannah) those feelings are not necessary, therefore I will feel nothing for you. I do not call your beliefs stupid and bullshit. I do not undersstand them completely, but I try. But one can only explain so far, unless you are apart of that belief. You are hopeless...now you're probably going ot say somethign similar about me, it is always the way with you people...like yeah I know you are but what am I.

 

[Riqtay]

Islam is the Perfect Religeon

I'm replying to the argument about the fact that a perfect status of Islam cannot be attained by acknowledging that the Quran is untampered with or cannot be replicated or reproduced. Me being a youth means that I don't neccessarily have enough knowledge on the subject, but I will try my hardest. I think that the issue requires clarification.

The Holy Quran draws the attention of mankind to the indisputable historical fact that the Books and Scriptures revealed earlier than the Quran have been tampered with. Their teachings were corrupted by a process of gradual amendment or new elements were introduced through interpolation until the validity of these books and Scriptures became doubtful and questionable. So, the onus of proof that no change whatsoever has been effected, of course, lies on the shoulders of the people belonging to such religeons.

Islam is a timeless religeon and thus its teachings can be taught and implemented from now into the future. Because of this noble quality, Islam has the logical potential of becoming a universal religeon. The meaning of the word Islam means peace and it is peace which is the underlying principles inherent in the Holy Quran. Through peace, humanity can gain the greatest advantage and it is because of these teachings and the undeniable fact that the Quran has not been tampered with, gives Islam its authentic status and inturn brands it the position of the Perfect Religeon.

The gradual change in a religeon is mainly to conform to societal changes rather than the universal principles sent down by God. Thus, such a religeon is based upon the finite wisdom of humans rather than the infinite wisdom of God.




For more information on Islam, read: 'Islam's response to contemporary issues' by Mirza Tahir Ahmed.

 

[zahid]

All arguments about the koran being perfect, and this being a reason for believing are just bs... Wake up to yourselves muslims, It's sad.

But it is perfect...and unaltered, you can find an ancient Copy of the Quran at a turkish museum (there is more that one actually) and look at one reprinted recently, and it is exact in form and content.
the bible on the other hand has about 10billion versions, all tampered with. The bible in its original Form is also Sacred to the Muslims.

 

[SashatheMan]

Yes but hte Mona Lisa was ahuman creation, not the qur'an.

why is the quran made out of the coomon materials that humans had in the 7th century, why does it have to be preserved so it doesnt get deteriorate through time?
would god really make a book for everyone to follow that can easily get destroyed and be made out of material available to people at the time?

 

[veterandoggy]

The Qur'an is a work of fiction and should be treated as such. It's teachings carry as much weight as those of Christianity. None.

Islam isn't a timeless religion. It was invented in the 7th Century.

And it makes a lot of sense that Islam is such a peaceful religion, that people around the world (I hate to use the word terrorists) are using Islam to justify the murder of innocent civilians.

oh, so teachings of good are of no value to you? hmmmm...

it was revealed in the 7th century.

you hate saying terrorist? but what you call us is worse than that! and people around the world sounds too general. try "some use it to kill innocent civillians, and everyone else condemns those using it for that reason, save their leaders"

 

[Riqtay]

Islam is a peaceful religion

Islam is a timeless religeon, meaning that its teachings were taught and implemented from the 7th Century to now and into the future. It also means that its teachings were uncorrupted through humans and thus its teachings are pure.

Islam is a peaceful religion. If you read books on Islam or the Holy Quran you would find that Islam teaches harmony amongst humans rather than the violence today's so called muslim terrorists are commiting. These terrorists cannot even be called muslims as they fully oppose the teachings of the Quran. Terrorists using Islam to justify the killings of innocent people is completely wrong as they are not the true representatives of Islam, rather they are the enemy of Islam.

The fundamental teachings of Islam is concerning peace, yet extremist Muslims, unjustifiably kill people in the name of Islam. In reality, they do not kill people in the name of Islam, rather they use words to claim they do so. They are just unlearned people who commit acts of violence against humanity. Imagine a Christian group commiting acts of terrorism. Can you say that Christianity is an evil religion because of the works of the cowardly few?

Islam is a peaceful religion, yet it can not be degraded due to the incorrect implementation of its teachings from a select few who are unknowledgable and ignorant. No religion should be mocked or maliciously degraded.

I urge people in this discussion to research further into the teachings of Islam and then formulating an argument for or against Islam. I also believe that people should not marginalize the majority of Muslims because of the acts of the cowardly few who give Muslims all around the world a bad name.

 

[veterandoggy]

0o0o riqtay, i guess youre new...

this has been going on for ages, and now most of our conversations are "your brainwashed;your blind;blah blah" but youll find out soon enough...

 

[withoutaface]

I give up. The arguments put forward by theists are, and always will be retarded, and let me conclude by saying that you all make unreasonable logical jumps because instead of using proper reasoning you'd like to stick your head in the sand and believe that some higher being actually cares about your existence, and that there is a heaven after death. This would be good if it were true, but that alone cannot stand up as proof that it is.

Thankyou and goodnight.

PS Moonlight I love you.

 

[mr EaZy]

I give up. The arguments put forward by theists are, and always will be retarded,
Thankyou and goodnight.
.

likewise and goodnight (although i havent given up yet)

Hmmm sleeping early eh!

Everybody loves moonlight sonata

 

[Not-That-Bright]

But it is perfect...and unaltered, you can find an ancient Copy of the Quran at a turkish museum (there is more that one actually) and look at one reprinted recently, and it is exact in form and content.

What the hell does it matter if it has not been altered?! WHAT DOES IT MATTER!!!
As I have EXPLAINED...
- People will ALL interperate texts differently.
- THUS the meanings of the koran can change.
- Thus it does not MATTER that is was not physically altered in any way...

P.S. You have no evidence to show that the original copy was not tampered with, just that it is very old...

 

[MoonlightSonata]

OMG! I have done what you ask over and over again to many of you people. I do not need to prove to you why I believe in something as much as you don't need to prove why you may believe in aliens, or athiesm is the key or nihilism.

No you don't have to prove it, but --

1. This is a discussion forum. If you don't want to discuss it, that's perfectly fine but what are you doing here?

2. If you do not give reasons then do not expect people to take you seriously. I am sure that you would not take me seriously if I said that aliens live in my house -- you would want a good reason to believe it.

The Qur'an is perfect beause it is the word of god.

How do you know that it is the word of God?

One proof of this is the predicitons within the qur'an,

Excellent, you have provided a reason to back up your belief - I commend you.

Unfortunately, it is not a particularly good one --

Claim
The text contains many prophecies that have accurately been fulfilled, proving it is a divine source.

Response
1. There are several mundane ways in which a prediction of the future can be fulfilled:

• Retrodiction. The "prophecy" can be written or modified after the events fulfilling it have already occurred.
• Vagueness. The prophecy can be worded in such a way that people can interpret any outcome as a fulfillment. Nostradomus's prophecies are all of this type. Vagueness works particularly well when people are religiously motivated to believe the prophecies.
• Inevitability. The prophecy can predict something that is almost sure to happen, such as the collapse of a city. Since nothing lasts forever, the city is sure to fall someday. If it has not, it can be said that according to prophecy, it will.
• Denial. One can claim that the fulfilling events occurred even if they have not. Or, more commonly, one can forget that the prophecy was ever made.
• Self-fulfillment. A person can act deliberately to satisfy a known prophecy.

There are no prophecies in the text that cannot easily fit into one or more of those categories.

2. In biblical times, prophecies were not simply predictions. They were warnings of what could or would happen if things did not change. They were meant to influence people's behavior. If the people heeded the prophecy, the events would not come to pass. A fulfilled prophecy was a failed prophecy, because it meant people did not heed the warning.

3. Other religions claim many fulfilled prophecies, too.

(www.talk-origins.org)

So you can strike out the prophecy reason from your head.

another is its inability to be replicated, reproduced, whatever word you wish to use.

What do you mean by reproduced/replicated?

I always had s belief in god. But the christian way of worship I disliked, then I found Islam. Everythign in Islam made sence to me, so I joined the righteous path.
That is why. The brilliance of the Qur'an is the miracle given to The Last Prophet of Allah as his sign of being a prophet and that this really was god. It is also, as I have also said, a way of keeping the faith form shifting, a way of keeping the core of wroship safe and untainted adn unaltered due to the inability of tampering wiht its words, even if you tried (i.e The True Furqan imitation qur'an).

The end.

No, it is not. With respect, any remotely tenable reasons have been refuted. But we are perfectly open to your provision of more.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

But it is perfect...and unaltered, you can find an ancient Copy of the Quran at a turkish museum (there is more that one actually) and look at one reprinted recently, and it is exact in form and content.
the bible on the other hand has about 10billion versions, all tampered with. The bible in its original Form is also Sacred to the Muslims.

That is only relevant if the original was true to begin with -- which is the whole point of the argument.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Islam is a timeless religeon, meaning that its teachings were taught and implemented from the 7th Century to now and into the future. It also means that its teachings were uncorrupted through humans and thus its teachings are pure.

Only if the original was pure, which is the whole issue at hand. It doesn't matter if it was unaltered for 1,000,000 years if it is not true.

I also believe that people should not marginalize the majority of Muslims because of the acts of the cowardly few who give Muslims all around the world a bad name.

I agree with you, though there is clearly a problem that isn't going away anytime soon. Islam may be a peaceful religion but it has spawned a particularly dangerous group of followers in recent times.

 

[mr EaZy]

Islam may be a peaceful religion but it has spawned a particularly dangerous group of followers in recent times.

Terrorist and islamic academics (non muslim ones too) will start off the whole story of so-called "islamism" with sayed Qutb

Well, he was at one time a marxist - and believed you know in the plight of the poor and those unjustly dealt with by capitalist society

so it wasnt all islams fault- islam should be applied independantly of socialism or capitalism or any other economic or political theory

john lock said that the church and state should be separated
this idea existed in islam sicne the beginning because we have no church structure- our structure is more of a community based.... we have no clergy men

anyone can claim to be an imaam- It doesnt matter! coz no one has to follow u

they can if they want to! and thats when things go wrong is when you believe in what an imaam says without consultation with the community or ummah

 

[Not-That-Bright]

anyone can claim to be an imaam- It doesnt matter! coz no one has to follow u

anyone can claim to be a priest too doucheface.

 

[veterandoggy]

I agree with you, though there is clearly a problem that isn't going away anytime soon. Islam may be a peaceful religion but it has spawned a particularly dangerous group of followers in recent times.

well, considering that other religions also went through this phase, i would have expected it to reach us, though not in this proportion. i kinda saw the "we're better than you cos we're going to heaven" attitude, but i didnt expect the "OMG your not muslim? let me show you my explosives' feelings to you" attitude to dominate at any time, save a third world war.

i have also noticed that many kids growing up want to do "jihad against the kafirs" and i must admit that they are diseased to their core, because they didnt get taught much about islam, and when they did they were throwing paper balls at their friends. oh, and also they memorise parts of the quran (usually the short chapters) and i think that they would have a better chance at understanding german.

 

[Riqtay]

The belief of a certain religion lies with the beleiver. Islam's teaching has been unaltered from the day the Quran was completed. Islam teaches peace and harmony and in anyones religion these concepts are true. Also the life and encounters of the Holy Prophet have been narrated exactly as they were when the Quran was completed. The only difference is that many of the other religions have gone through change in their teachings and beliefs, which automatically makes those religions less credible.

As I said earlier, by changing a religion throughout time to meet societal changes is unwise as the finite wisdom of humans is inserted into the religion. However by having a fixed and solid doctrine, the religion stands the test of time and also the infinite wisdom of god has been placed in that religion (Islam). The authenticity of the teachings of a certain religion is related to the dogma one has for their religion. Can you prove that the Bible is the full and complete word of God? No, this idea is up to the believers of the religion. I fully believe that the Quran is the final and complete word of God.

 

[veterandoggy]

anyone can claim to be a priest too doucheface.

yeah, but it is the imaams that were on the streets last week and have no degree which are most likely to preach jihad and terrorism. the imaam i go to has rarely said anything about preaching to others. he has always given us advice to preach to ourselves and make us better people. conversions would come naturally if followers of a religion gained support and appeal by the community.