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Islam Discussion (2 Viewers)

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iranian rocket

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withoutaface said:
Bush didn't cheat to get elected. The system was flawed perhaps, in that Gore got a higher number of votes, but Bush didn't cheat.
Mate how can a country where only the government is only representative of less than 10% of the population be deemed a democracy? Communist China may not have free elections but the government has well greater than 10% of the populations support.


On another point, to those who keep saying "why arent there more islamic democracies", who are we to claim democracy is the best form of government? How can different countries with vastly different societal and cultural structures be all perfectly suited to one form of government. In anycase democracy is an evolutionary process, you cant force it on people it comes about as a result of greater literacy rates and higher rates of tertiary education, which slowly ingrains democratic principles in the population,
 
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xeuyrawp

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I believe they were referring to the persecution of muslims in china

wikipedia:
"During the Cultural Revolution, many Muslims, along with other Chinese, were persecuted. Muslim imams were paraded around with paint splashed on their persons, and 1,600 Muslims were massacred by the People's Liberation Army (the Shadian Incident) in 1975. Even though religious freedom was declared in 1978, there are still many claims of persecution of Muslims by the communist government"
Oooh, I didn't know that. Learn something new every day. :)
 

Salima

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withoutaface said:
I suggest you stop watching Michael Moore and obtain a movie by the name of Farenhype 9/11.

Bush didn't cheat to get elected. The system was flawed perhaps, in that Gore got a higher number of votes, but Bush didn't cheat.
I am not. I know what is real/Do you?, let me answer for you...no.
 

Simpson Freak

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I believe those questions were perfectly answered by someone else, but i would like to give my own similar opinion just in case some of you still don't get the message.

1.
Like the other guy said we are not quiet, its just if the only place where you get your information from is the media, you would think your view of the world would be slightly subjective. I do not think it is proper for anyone in a "free country" to be obliged to keep banners and posters under their beds just incase of some wacko, so we can apologise on their behalf.

At the end of the day, like people of all faiths have been doing for so long. it is called RATIONALISING. These terrorists are using religion as an excuse for their blood thirstiness.

Why would the media need to play some old footage of a wedding during september 12, in a fake attempt to make it look like they were celebrating the death of americans.

We do not know the reason for the terrorist's actions. SOme of them are nuts, but some of them are probably just a bunch of desperate slobs, with their entire family killed by an "accidental" American bombing of their wedding, and suddenly all they can think they can do is strap a bomb to them and kill some more inocents to make their voices heard.

Anyway, religious leaders are the ones to talk to, not the general public. They have more influence. The heads of mosques that I go to only advocate peace and nothing about hate and violence. The trick is to stop those lunatics that teach hate and killing.

2.
At the end of the day, muslim palestinians are the ones being killed. An entire family is burnt alive by a helicopter missile because the distant cousin may have links to terrorists.

These people believe that by slaughtering innocents they can bring about some good in their own country, it is an act of desperation. When you are living below the poverty line, are illiterate, half your family blown away in mosques, what else can you do. To make matters worse, your religious leader is a lunatic, and he tells you that blowing yourself up will make the country a better place.

3.
"Free", what is "Free". Half the time "free" is just a buzz word used by Bush administration to make the public see their point. same with "weapons of mass distruction" which were not in Iraq.

What is Turkey not free? At the end of the day, free would just mean democratic. And these people would not count democratic countries as muslim countries. Why is that? When your in a country of majority muslims, and your elected prime minister and you and all your party members are Muslim, aren't you counted as a muslim country.

4.
Because they can use Islam to justify their actions. The same way President Bush can look at one side of the Constitution and ignore other parts of it, just so he can spy on American Citizens.

Its stupid, but the reason is obvious. Even though it is forbidden be unjust to your wife, some of these corrupt men would only notice the part that says wives should be loyal to turn their wives into slaves.

Corruption isn't bound by religion, and most of these atrocities are people trying to still look at themselves in the mirror by deluding themselves into thinking they are allowed to slaughter women and children.

About IRAN, none of the people in Iran actually take it seriously, even the JEWS that live in Iran. Its just a ploy for the President to some what unite the government. I think its stupid, but i certainly don't think they are asking for the people to be exterminated, but probably the government to fall, afterall the isreali government is also corrupt.

5.
Persecution is apparent in many cultures and religions. At the end of the day it is not right and completely stupid (what you want me to march with a banner saying that or it doesn't count?)

Don't generalise, the Taliban would also charge women that have been raped with adultery. There was nothing Islamic about that government, it beats me how you can abuse women and children and then come home to pray 5 times a day.

I don't see why Saudi Arabia would not allow churches and synagogues, even though the Prophet would be very peaceful with Christians and Jews. If I ever meet a Saudi official i would like to ask them that.

Christians would butcher muslims during the crusades in the name of Jesus, apparently we killed him and he asked his dad to forgive us for killing God (sorry i am thinking outloud). Anyway, there have been heaps of attrocities by christians and jews. No normal muslim would condone such acts, so whats your point? do you still want me to parade against it? Saddam Hussein would kill his own people that were also muslim. Its called corruption and it is present in many places.



The media usually portrays only one side to the story, Muslims would condemn these terrorist acts, but why are we obliged to go march when ever someone does something evil in the name of God. I didn't see any Anglo-saxons marching for peace when whites at cronulla would bash passing women for looking middle eastern. Am i to assume all anglo saxons would endorce and condone the gang bashing of people for looking middle eastern?


And whats all this hu-bub about democracy...there are other systems you know. What is China also evil for being communist? What type of democracy are you offering if Muslims have the choice of comforming to western democracy or being branded evil and "not free".

There are lots of controversial questions, but the media does not want to answer them, they just want to have a field day.

Why would Sasha ask such questions on a site like this. There are muslim sites run by educated individuals that know much more than I. There are 3 pages so far, but apart from me only 1 or 2 muslims replied to answer your questions.

If you really want answers, you know where to look, all your doing is creating more doubt in the minds of non-Muslims by claiming you can never get a straight answer.

Did you watch that 30 Days thing by that guy who made that movie about McDonald's...Super Size Me. They made an American Christian live with a muslim family and to do what they do. At the end of the show I was surprised at the ignorance of so many people, that guy asked much of the same questions you asked and he got answers.

Ultimately most the people who ask these questions are misinformed or just ignorant. There are terrorists who claim they are muslims, but there are also muslims undercover helping agencies like the FBI and CIA to stop any more killing of innocents.
 

Simpson Freak

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This Is Just A Thought, But I Think We Can Classify These Evil People, Who Call Themselves Islamic, Into 3 Categories:

The Corrupt Who Abuse (or Kill) Women And Children For Personal Gain, Pretending Its In Their Religion To Do Such Things.

The Ignorant Who Are Lead By Corrupt Or Bloody Thirsty Leaders That Are Calling Them To Arms Against This Western Boogeyman

The Desperate Who Have Had Their Family Wiped Out, And Strapping A Bomb To Themselves Is The Only Apt Reaction In Their Mind.

There Are Evils On Both Sides And Both Problems Need To Be Rectified, The West Is No Angel In All Of This, But You Still Can't Blow Up Civilians In The Name Of God.
 

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SashatheMan said:
\
(1) Why are you so quiet?

Since the first Israelis were targeted for death by Muslim terrorists blowing themselves up in the name of your religion and Palestinian nationalism, I have been praying to see Muslim demonstrations against these atrocities. Last week's protests in Jordan against the bombings, while welcome, were a rarity. What I have seen more often is mainstream Muslim spokesmen implicitly defending this terror on the grounds that Israel occupies Palestinian lands. We see torture and murder in the name of Allah, but we see no anti-torture and anti-murder demonstrations in the name of Allah.
First of all this is a very complex, its not about being quiet its about your own personal life. Not everyone can take the risk of going out rioting for religion's sake especially if this sort of thing has been going for so long and has progressed very slowly. Its actually quit ironically, you claim muslims to be quiet and yet they end up blowing buildings. Its simple the reason why we no 'anti-torture' is because there is no support, the israelis have the support of the western world whilst the palestinians have no support not even from the middle east, simply cos the eastern countries have very little power, and very little to gain.-its all politics
SashatheMan said:
There are a billion Muslims in the world. How is it possible that essentially none have demonstrated against evils perpetrated by Muslims in the name of Islam? This is true even of the millions of Muslims living in free Western societies. What are non-Muslims of goodwill supposed to conclude? When the Israeli government did not stop a Lebanese massacre of Palestinians in the Sabra and Chatilla refugee camps in Lebanon in 1982, great crowds of Israeli Jews gathered to protest their country's moral failing. Why has there been no comparable public demonstration by Palestinians or other Muslims to morally condemn Palestinian or other Muslim-committed terror?
Perhaps you should research more, there are some organisations that are against violence and are muslim based, unfortunately the media doesnt focus on them and people dont realise their efforts.
SashatheMan said:
(2) Why are none of the Palestinian terrorists Christian?

If Israeli occupation is the reason for Muslim terror in Israel, why do no Christian Palestinians engage in terror? They are just as nationalistic and just as occupied as Muslim Palestinians.
There are few christians in Palestine, and issue was caused by them in the first place (Britain), how can you trust em? Also how do know that christians are not involved, they probably are and afraid to say so.
(3) Why is only one of the 47 Muslim-majority countries a free country?
SashatheMan said:
According to Freedom House, a Washington-based group that promotes democracy, of the world's 47 Muslim countries, only Mali is free. Sixty percent are not free, and 38% are partly free. Muslim-majority states account for a majority of the world's "not free" states. And of the 10 "worst of the worst," seven are Islamic states. Why is this?
the statistic based on 'Washington-based" firstly is biased, most of the governments in the middle east are governed by islamic law, which they consider to be free, its all matter of opinion.
SashatheMan said:
(4) Why are so many atrocities committed and threatened by Muslims in the name of Islam?

Young girls in Indonesia were recently beheaded by Muslim murderers. Last year, Muslims — in the name of Islam — murdered hundreds of schoolchildren in Russia. While reciting Muslim prayers, Islamic terrorists take foreigners working to make Iraq free and slaughter them. Muslim daughters are murdered by their own families in the thousands in "honor killings." And the Muslim government in Iran has publicly called for the extermination of Israel.
This sort of thing happens everywhere, especially in america- murders, shootouts etc. Its the just the media portraying it as if it only happens in Iraq, It happens in India which is the largest democratic country in the world does it mean its acceptable?
SashatheMan said:
(5) Why do countries governed by religious Muslims persecute other religions?

No church or synagogue is allowed in Saudi Arabia. The Taliban destroyed some of the greatest sculptures of the ancient world because they were Buddhist. Sudan's Islamic regime has murdered great numbers of Christians.
Because thats how the worlds is, people destroy things for no reason, there is very little benefit of destroying any temple. The christians have done it the past and have learnt its wrong. Hindu extremists still continue to torch mosques in India, similarly buddhists are also invovled. It happens all over the world why target muslims?
SashatheMan said:
Instead of confronting these problems, too many of you deny them. Muslims call my radio show to tell me that even speaking of Muslim or Islamic terrorists is wrong. After all, they argue, Timothy McVeigh is never labeled a "Christian terrorist." As if McVeigh committed his terror as a churchgoing Christian and in the name of Christ, and as if there were Christian-based terror groups around the world.
Thats the nature of some people, its not based on religions that how humans are, some people are like that whether it be religion, sport etc
SashatheMan said:
As a member of the media for nearly 25 years, I have a long record of reaching out to Muslims. Muslim leaders have invited me to speak at major mosques. In addition, I have studied Arabic and Islam, have visited most Arab and many other Muslim countries and conducted interfaith dialogues with Muslims in the United Arab Emirates as well as in the U.S. Politically, I have supported creation of a Palestinian state and supported (mistakenly, I now believe) the Oslo accords.
I think the oslo accords were huge step forward on resolving this problem. The americans are playing with terrorists, giving them oppurtinities to hurt more people. The questions now is, was it worth invading afghanistan and iraq? so far the americans have not found Osama, i mean the whole point of the invasion was of revenge and to find this mastermind terrorist. so far they have failed.
SashatheMan said:
Hundreds of millions of non-Muslims want honest answers to these questions, even if the only answer you offer is, "Yes, we have real problems in Islam." Such an acknowledgment is infinitely better — for you and for the world — than dismissing us as anti-Muslim.
Problems are everywhere, there have been problems for long time that have yet to be resolved. Problems will always exist, is he claiming that religions have no problems?. By claiming that your religion has problems your are saying that ur religions is not religion, as religions is meant to be perfect as it the the words of GOD.
primarily why terrorist do everything in the name of GOD, when it has very little to do with religion itself. terrorist like hitler are insane.

SashatheMan said:
We await your response.
i think the response of the muslim world has been shown already, withsupport from the western world, in a non-aggressive manner would be really beneficial.
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion...tory?coll=la-home-sunday-opinion[/url[/QUOTE]
 

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iranian rocket said:
Mate how can a country where only the government is only representative of less than 10% of the population be deemed a democracy? Communist China may not have free elections but the government has well greater than 10% of the populations support.


On another point, to those who keep saying "why arent there more islamic democracies", who are we to claim democracy is the best form of government? How can different countries with vastly different societal and cultural structures be all perfectly suited to one form of government. In anycase democracy is an evolutionary process, you cant force it on people it comes about as a result of greater literacy rates and higher rates of tertiary education, which slowly ingrains democratic principles in the population,
brillaint, i think that statement is 100% spot on. Listen to Tupac he has interesting themes about america, 'thug life'.
 

HotShot

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iranian rocket said:
Mate how can a country where only the government is only representative of less than 10% of the population be deemed a democracy? Communist China may not have free elections but the government has well greater than 10% of the populations support.


On another point, to those who keep saying "why arent there more islamic democracies", who are we to claim democracy is the best form of government? How can different countries with vastly different societal and cultural structures be all perfectly suited to one form of government. In anycase democracy is an evolutionary process, you cant force it on people it comes about as a result of greater literacy rates and higher rates of tertiary education, which slowly ingrains democratic principles in the population,
brillaint, i think that statement is 100% spot on. Listen to Tupac he has interesting themes about america, 'thug life'.
 

iranian rocket

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HotShot said:
Listen to Tupac he has interesting themes about america, 'thug life'.
Im not going to pretend you were being serious and not even warrant that with a response.

My point about america's govt not being representative of the majority is based on the fact that due to the fact that voting in america isnt compulsory and voter turnout is 10%. Further to this by and large the only people in america who win elections are those who are wealthy and spend the most on their election campaigns, so far the US has had 2 or 3 presidents who werent millionaires when they came into power. One needs only look at the recent election victories of Mayor of newyour Bloomberg a billionaire, and Arnold Schwartznegger who spend 20million out of his own pocket on his election campaign.
 

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iranian rocket said:
Im not going to pretend you were being serious and not even warrant that with a response.

My point about america's govt not being representative of the majority is based on the fact that due to the fact that voting in america isnt compulsory and voter turnout is 10%. Further to this by and large the only people in america who win elections are those who are wealthy and spend the most on their election campaigns, so far the US has had 2 or 3 presidents who werent millionaires when they came into power. One needs only look at the recent election victories of Mayor of newyour Bloomberg a billionaire, and Arnold Schwartznegger who spend 20million out of his own pocket on his election campaign.
Ah, what?

http://www.uselectionatlas.org/USPRESIDENT/data.php?year=2004&datatype=national&def=vto&f=0

Stop the bullshit and we may take you seriously.
 

iranian rocket

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Generator said:
What i meant to say was the victorious party only has 10% of the population voting for them, which i admit was a mistake. there are 200million registered voters with a 64%voter turn out and 51% of them voted for bush. Whereas in australia there was a 96%voter turn out and of them 58% of them voted for the coalition
 

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iranian rocket said:
What i meant to say was the victorious party only has 10% of the population voting for them, which i admit was a mistake. there are 200million registered voters with a 64%voter turn out and 51% of them voted for bush. Whereas in australia there was a 96%voter turn out and of them 58% of them voted for the coalition
Coalition, not necessarily HOward. COALITION! I can't believe aussies could be that dumb you know, but I may have to admit it. Evena n ex-friends mom voted for howard...damn why!
 

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Free Country?

The same "free" used to allow americans join a vietnamese civil war? "fighting for freedom, for our country" was the excuse to go to Vietnam, I mean it was a civil war, and to serve its own interests USA went to war.

The US has a long history of doing a lot of evil to serve its own interests.

Heck it started a war between, Iran and Iraq to cause instability in the middle east. I mean when Iran was about to defeat Iraq, they would generously provide weapons and fighter planes to help Iraq out. Suddenly the strongest countries in the middle east were weak and the new super power becomes Israel, COINCIDENCE? maybe who cares,

Similarly the whole deal with the CIA training bin laden, i guess bin laden was so evil it betrayed the holy and sinless CIA and the US government.

I mean what would even posses you to ask for "honest" answers by printing up the propaganda bull of the US government.

So USA, is the same "free country" that is spying on its citizens. Bush claims it is totally legal, then why did he keep it a secret for 3 years? and then when it came out, he suddenly calls it legal? He said it only spies on citizens that are possible terrorists, but now we find out that it was more than that, but they were listening to millions of random coversations

anyway it is clear that many people have answered these questions, its just that most of you choose to ignore it and only listen to the biased bull crap spouting out of the Bush admin and the ignorant red-necks that support it.
 

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googooloo said:
Coalition, not necessarily HOward. COALITION! I can't believe aussies could be that dumb you know, but I may have to admit it. Evena n ex-friends mom voted for howard...damn why!
70% of people don't vote for the prime minister.
They vote for their 'trustworthy' local representative who happens to be a member of the Liberal party who pick the PM.

There should be 2 votes. One for local representation, then one for PM.
 

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Wolfowitz said:
70% of people don't vote for the prime minister.
They vote for their 'trustworthy' local representative who happens to be a member of the Liberal party who pick the PM.

There should be 2 votes. One for local representation, then one for PM.
i agree. we should have a vote for coalition, labour, greens, etc, but as you can tell if a minor party was to win the election, then it would be extremely difficult to pass any laws.
 

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veterandoggy said:
i agree. we should have a vote for coalition, labour, greens, etc, but as you can tell if a minor party was to win the election, then it would be extremely difficult to pass any laws.
Ah, read through the above. Now, think... Are you there? If not, a political party cannot be a minor party if it 'wins' the election - those parties that 'win' are in the majority in the House of Representatives. Edit: A minor party cannot be in the majority, and if a party is in the majority, then it should be more than obvious that it is no longer a minor party.

Given our political system, the suggestion that we vote for a PM and a political party doesn't make much sense, too.
 
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If I was a muslim I would tell you to get f&^%%. Your questions have a slightly more sophisticated then redneck inuendo that is insincere and makes me sick, go back to cronulla.
 

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^Some Muslims have tried to answer the q's. Though I think why alot of us aren't answering them is not only because they've already been answered, but also because we suspect (and we're probably right) that the threadstarter didn't ask these questions because he was sincerely wondering.......but rather, to degrade islam. Some people ask because they struggle to arrive at the truth (if this is ur intention then I would encourage you to continue questioning things) whereas others ask to satisfy their own agendas. Other than that, I'm pretty sick of it. These types of questions have been asked a million times and they've been answered a million times. To some people, even if you give them satisfactory answers, they still won't accept it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, there isn't much point in answering these questions........except that answering them may perhaps benefit those who come across the thread and sincerely wonder about these issues.
 

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sly fly said:
^Some Muslims have tried to answer the q's. Though I think why alot of us aren't answering them is not only because they've already been answered, but also because we suspect (and we're probably right) that the threadstarter didn't ask these questions because he was sincerely wondering.......but rather, to degrade islam. Some people ask because they struggle to arrive at the truth (if this is ur intention then I would encourage you to continue questioning things) whereas others ask to satisfy their own agendas. Other than that, I'm pretty sick of it. These types of questions have been asked a million times and they've been answered a million times. To some people, even if you give them satisfactory answers, they still won't accept it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, there isn't much point in answering these questions........except that answering them may perhaps benefit those who come across the thread and sincerely wonder about these issues.
i dont post for the regular posters anymore because they can guess my replies if they review my old ones, i only post for those that accidentally click on the education section and end up in the NCAP section by mistake
 

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Kutar Maggi said:
your a dumb ass shut up! oh and nice to see you finally coming out of the closet
wow . your so cool .you edit my quote by adding sometihng in red , so people actually notice what yuo typed in. fuckign immature if you ask me.


maybe your just angry, what i said about bush and the US, and u have no comeback, so yuo have to resort to childish shit like that.

http://z.about.com/d/geography/1/0/h/B/lifex4.jpg

heres a picture of life expectancy around the world. i stand by my world
 
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