Islam Discussion (2 Viewers)

[zahid]

Your whole argument consists of "you wouldn't understand." Not very convincing. With respect it just tends to suggest to me that you can't actually come up with a logical response.

No, I am sorry moonlight. But from what you state- it is obvious that you have no knowledge of Islam...yes I am being logical in what seems apparant.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

OK so...you are so convinced of your righteousness , they why the need to question Islam?

Listen Moonlight...I believe I am absolutely right in choosing my faith...and you have your personal opinions, if I am wrong. Then it seems probable that you are just as wrong.

Firstly, "righteousness" is to be equated with morality, not accuracy or truth.

Secondly, again no response to my argument has been made. It just suggests that you have none. You may believe that you are right but you fail to provide any grounds for that belief. You can therefore understand why I might seem confused as to why you and others continue to be proponents of a concept they cannot justify.

One of the reasons I question religions is that I feel that maybe people will start to think more critically when they are confronted with gaping holes of logic in their beliefs. I believe in reason and compassion and that ultimately discovering truth and applying reason will lead humanity to a better place. I believe that pursuing beliefs that one knows to be false will be ultimately harmful to the human race. We want to be able to have knowledge about the world, not live in times of myth and delusion.

 

[zahid]

Firstly, "righteousness" is to be equated with morality, not accuracy or truth.

Secondly, again no response to my argument has been made. It just suggests that you have none. You may believe that you are right but you fail to provide any grounds for that belief. You can therefore understand why I might seem confused as to why you and others continue to be proponents of a concept they cannot justify.

One of the reasons I question religions is that I feel that maybe people will start to think more critically when they are confronted with gaping holes of logic in their beliefs. I believe in reason and compassion and that ultimately discovering truth and applying reason will lead humanity to a better place. I believe that pursuing beliefs that one knows to be false will be ultimately harmful to the human race. We want to be able to have knowledge about the world, not live in times of myth and delusion.

Ok moonlight...restate your Argument in one sentence. (just the jist of it) What exactly are you asking?

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Ok moonlight...restate your Argument in one sentence. (just the jist of it) What exactly are you asking?

Why do you believe in Islam?

 

[Sweets]

What I don't get is how secular academics/individuals are all about unearthing biases, on the basis of rationality etc, apparently theirs are all around us, so they cannot be admitted After all, if we assumed that secular rationalism skewed perspectives as much as being a landowner did, then, well, we wouldn't be in university/school, would we?

 

[zahid]

@Moonlight.
Because it is the final word of Allah (God).

 

[MoonlightSonata]

@Moonlight.
Because it is the final word of Allah (God).

No, that is the belief of Islam.

I asked why you believe in Islam (ie. why you believe it is the final word of Allah ).

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Actually, Zahid, I think I ought to apologise. If you do not want to discuss your beliefs and are uncomfortable in doing so I am completely fine with that -- I don't want to push anyone into a discussion that they don't want to be in.

Despite my acerbic disagreement with religion I realise how fundamental it is to a lot of people and I don't want to shove someone into an argument that involves a lot of trampling on their beliefs that they don't want to be in. I think I may have been too vehement in urging you to partake in this debate.

On the one hand you are participating in this thread, which does indicate your willingness, but on the other hand please feel free not to have to wrangle with me if you don’t want to.

 

[zahid]

No, that is the belief of Islam.

I asked why you believe in Islam.

Mate. LISTEN.

I believe in Islam because:

I believe that the Quaran is the word of Allah, it depicts for me an Islamic way of life, which I believe is the right path for life on this earth in order for me to successfully enter PARADISE.

 

[zahid]

Actually, Zahid, I think I ought to apologise. If you do not want to discuss your beliefs and are uncomfortable in doing so I am completely fine with that -- I don't want to push anyone into a discussion that they don't want to be in.

Despite my acerbic disagreement with religion I realise how fundamental it is to a lot of people and I don't want to shove someone into an argument that involves a lot of trampling on their beliefs that they don't want to be in. I think I may have been too vehement in urging you to partake in this debate.

On the one hand you are participating in this thread, which does indicate your willingness, but on the other hand please feel free not to have to wrangle with me if you don’t want to.

NO, I dont take anything personally, unless ofcourse you're CALCULON..which u are not. So yes..let us continue.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Okay well basically I am wondering why you believe in Islam.

That involves why you believe in Allah, why you believe the Qu'ran is the final word of God, etc. Those are the beliefs of Islam, but why do you believe that those beliefs are true?

(Nothing against Islam specifically, I would ask Christians the same thing about the Bible).

 

[zahid]

So I believe in Islam, because by praying 5 times a day and often reading the Quran I find that I attain spiritual fulfillment. But of course how can I prove that? It's something I feel, its a feeling shared by 1.1 billion others....how can I prove that to you...all I can show is the Quran and its prophetic verses...and its revelations...and its beauty...

Man i am sorry that's the only way I can describe it.

 

[erawamai]

Zahid, people can watch a good movie and find peace and spiritual fulfillment.

 

[SashatheMan]

OK....bear with me here. I draw on a few metaphors

Look down...do you have a penis? then you are a male right (in biological terms at least).

But you may have long hair, maybe even man boobs...and someone on the street may think that your a woman...but of course you are not. The only way you can prove to that bystander that you are a male is by actually dropping you pants and revealing your penis, which of course you do not want to do, because it is such a private thing, that is so close to you.
.

but if one wanted to they could pull their pants off and reveal a physical body part, which makes that bystander change his mind about your gender, as they are convinced that your a male due to the undisputed evidence displayed to them.

So I believe in Islam, because by praying 5 times a day and often reading the Quran I find that I attain spiritual fulfillment. But of course how can I prove that? It's something I feel, its a feeling shared by 1.1 billion others....how can I prove that to you...all I can show is the Quran and its prophetic verses...and its revelations...and its beauty...

Man i am sorry that's the only way I can describe it.

i dont see anyway how thats a metaphore to the story u told. yuor like a bystender who sees a man who looks like a woman , but never bothers to find out. you can find out in many ways, eg asking, dacking the person, but u never bother..
i am not even asking why your doing it , becuase as u said its spiritually fulfilling. i am wondering what makes you so certain you chose the right thing to believe? what evidence u have that made u certain that praying 5 tiems a day is what i should do?

 

[hipPo3]

The Quaran is Gods word and revlation to humankind, and that's reason enough for us to accept Islam as a faith.

Doesn't the qu'ran mean "what's heard" in arabic ?

 

[Liberal Scum]

its a feeling shared by 1.1 billion others....

Appeal to majority.

how can I prove that to you...all I can show is the Quran and its prophetic verses...and its revelations...and its beauty...

Man i am sorry that's the only way I can describe it.

Something being allegedly beautiful (an entirely debatable point in itself) does not make it any more true.

 

[SashatheMan]

dont tell me your evidence is the word of allah. Allah didnt personally tell you what to believe. The word is ment to be from a prophet , who wrote in ancient scripts, which where rewritten over time and translated into other laguages. Your only reading this "word of allah" from a book published by some company.

 

[+Po1ntDeXt3r+]

Id say zahid is saing the right thing

Humans are not always logical we are shaped by personal beliefs and experiences..
we justify things to ourselves and they do not have to be logical

he believes in Islam because he feels it is right.. and everything else is wrong. Its not intolerance its subjective! Its the same way that Christians feel thay their feelings about God is the most right.
It should not conflict but if he didnt feel that the Q'ran was right... why would he follow a faith?

but some humans are ignorant that way..and take this as a superiority contest... this is not limited to persons of just a particular faith they are in every faith...

Athetist believe nothin (god, creator ,etc) is there.. [from a psychological perspective also are the most unhappy]... but an athetist is also a faith in a sense.. they hope that there isnt a God to rely on.. and that all is human choices..

you cant prove the validity of the existance of God/Allah/ etc... neither can u disprove them.

Science is in a completely different realm... both science and faith can survive together till we decide to merge them...
e.g times when science and faith work well?
Islamic nations.. circa 1400s.. Renissance Europe 1600s
times when we are completely retarded humans?... dark age and.. US circa 2000..

 

[loquasagacious]

Listen Moonlight...I believe I am absolutely right in choosing my faith...and you have your personal opinions, if I am wrong. Then it seems probable that you are just as wrong.

Actually Zahid if you are wrong then it increases the chances of Moonlight being right. eg he would have been correct in his hypothesis that Islam is wrong and so he is likely also right about other religions.

Furthermore because you are a believer you have lets say a 50/50 chance of being right but because Moonlight is a reasoner he has a far higher chance of being right.

 

[zahid]

Actually Zahid if you are wrong then it increases the chances of Moonlight being right. eg he would have been correct in his hypothesis that Islam is wrong and so he is likely also right about other religions.

Furthermore because you are a believer you have lets say a 50/50 chance of being right but because Moonlight is a reasoner he has a far higher chance of being right.

Yes IF. IF I am wrong..etc etc. I don't believe that we have established that I am wrong.