Israel–Gaza conflict (4 Viewers)

[Nebuchanezzar]

Re: Israeli Gaza Airstrikes

come now jb_nc, you can do better than that.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

Re: Israeli Gaza Airstrikes

But SURPRISINGLY it seems the security situation in Israel has increased dramatically! Goodness me it turns out that putting up the wall stopped the consistent flow of suicide bombers. Sounds like good policy to me. Cutting off food/supplies isn't that cool, but I can see the justification behind it.

You can see the justification of starving millions of innocent people who had nothing to do with the suicide attacks? You're a creten.

Every news source in the world with the exception of SOCIALIST ALTERNATIVE NOOZ is pretty clear that Hamas broke the ceasefire, dude. You can believe whatever you want to believe but at the end of the day the problem in this situation is the militancy of Hamas, all being propped up by marfuggin wahhabists.

Yes. They broke it by firing a rocket which killed a cow.

I'm arguing this on two forums, here and an American forum. On the American forum anyone who is the least bit pro-Palestine gets absolutely shouted down and attacked. Whereas here, I'm outnumbered and have nutty wahhabists arguing against me. Lolling fairly hard at the dichotomy

I see. So you can only win these debates with several pro-Israeli right wing American nutjobs on your side? Excellent. Excellent.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

Re: Israeli Gaza Airstrikes

Cretin - No I can see the argument of "We don't wish to provide supplies to our enemies", I said in no way that I supported it. Cutting off supplies is uncool, but I can see their justification. It does *not* mean it is correct or even morally valid.

When you can see (i interpret that as understand), it implies that you see it as somewhat valid, no? Sorry if I misunderstood you, but it sounded as if you were supporting a disproportionate Israeli response again!

Not my fault they can't aim. But yes THEY BROKE THE CEASE FIRE. WHAT DOES CEASE FIRE MEAN? It means you don't fire shit.

What if they threw a tennis ball over the fence?
Or let off a party popper?

Israel can defend themselves all they want (well, I disagree but whatever) but they ought to defend themselves proportionately. When Hamas broke the ceasefire (if they did), they broke it by using dud rockets that have the slimmest chance of actually hitting an Israeli. Israel then killed ->400 Palestinians in response. Hamas may have broken the ceasefire, but Israel overstepped the line. Stop painting Hamas as the bad guy in THIS situation.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

Re: Israeli Gaza Airstrikes

Jerusalem Post | Breaking News from Israel, the Middle East and the Jewish World

fkng lol

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

Re: Israeli Gaza Airstrikes

It was a precarious situation and the response was disproportionate, an eye for an eye never solves anything, but the whole goddamn point was that "If you don't fire shit at us, we won't fire shit at you". All goes out the window when a ceasefire is broken by people firing stuff.

So, when it all goes out the window Israel has the right to respond however it wants, or not? Help me understand your position here, Jew.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

Re: Israeli Gaza Airstrikes

"Israel mustn't talk of a ceasefire for humanitarian needs. This expression is unacceptable to us, as medications, blood and basic commodities have already been transferred to the Gaza Strip."

:rofl:

 

[sam04u]

Re: Israeli Gaza Airstrikes

I'd say the current security situation has everything to do with the interactions between Israel and Hamas

I hate having to explain the basics. I'd much rather debate the topic but considering you're generally a knowledgeable person I'll take the time to do it.

Hamas as an organisation was indirectly and directly funded by Israel that's right by Israel as an alternative to the PLO and Yasser Arafat in order to undermine the PLO. Considering you don't know this already I'm pretty certain you don't even know what the PLO is so I implore you to research into it. That is if you're interested enough in this topic to dig a little deeper. The PLO came closest to reaching a two-state solution via the Oslo accord and Yasser Arafat's recognition of the state of Israel on behalf of the Palestinians. So why would Israel seek to undermine this and fund Hamas to rival it?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahhaa. Yeah Israel broke the ceasefire, it wasn't Hamas sending 400 rockets into Israel that broke it at all.

Seriously, that's not impressive at all. Hamas did not fire rockets until the cease-fire was officially ended I believe that was around the 15th of December. Throughout that time however the starving people of Gaza grew largely impatient of Hamas's inability to organise for Israel to cease it's blockade on the borders of Gaza. As such, various organisations took it upon themselves to retaliate for the blockades by firing rockets into Israel. Hamas was not responsible for this.

However prior to that Israel knowingly violated the cease-fire by launching an attack on Hamas cabinet members. Bare in mind, Hamas is the legal government of the territory.

Source other than that? That is fucked though I will say.

There is ample evidence which supports it. But more importantly everybody already knows that is a fact.

Cutting off food/supplies isn't that cool, but I can see the justification behind it.

I can't. Using an Obama line sometimes you need to use a scalpel rather than a hatchet. This is definitely one of those cases.

the problem in this situation is the militancy of Hamas, all being propped up by marfuggin wahhabists.

That was the exact reason why Israel propped up Hamas. It was 1) religious and 2) militant.

In reality Israel doesn't give a damn what the ideologies of Hamas are. They just oppose their resistance mentality.

 

[sam04u]

Re: Israeli Gaza Airstrikes

There is no evidence of that that I've been able to locate. They raided a tunnel, but that looks like it.

Actually I believe there were other targets. I've got to look for the source, but I'm pretty sure it was reliable. But either way, Hamas were attacked directly by Israel during the period of the cease-fire.

Argumentum ad populum.

Good call. If it was on international television by an Israeli spokesperson I'm quite certain you should be able to find sources to verify it. But like I said take a look at the history of the conflict. If Israel's problem with Hamas was an ideological one, they wouldn't have supported them in order to undermine the PLO. Their problem with Hamas is as I stated their resistance mentality.

Yet to see evidence.

Research.

 

[bigb0yjames]

Re: Israeli Gaza Airstrikes

israel wont exist in 100 years. hope i live to see the day

 

[ari89]

Re: Israel killed 155 Terrorists in Gaza Airstrike

HAMAS is NOT the problem here u freak. THe PROBLEM is the fact that israel is causing a freaking massacre

YEAH HAMAS is NOT the PROBLEM! They should be able to do whatever the FUCK they want without ANY CONSEQUENCE

in an attempt to 'stop' two what they called ' terrorists' TWO HUMANS... they killed a mother and her FOUR children. FOUR freaking kids. FIVE CIVILIANS DEAD. they r someones relatives. KIN is the most important thing in arab culture. in religious culture. i mean doesnt it make ur blood boil. they r fucking innocent.

Maybe this compassion could go both ways? Just saying...

 

[ari89]

Re: Israeli Gaza Airstrikes

israel wont exist in 100 years. hope i live to see the day

That's not nice!

 

[bigb0yjames]

Re: Israeli Gaza Airstrikes

That's not nice!

the demographics go against it.

LOL, i just read that Dubai canceled their new years party in solidarity with Palestinians facing Israeli military attacks in the Gaza Strip. how fucked can these arab countries be?

 

[sam04u]

Re: Israeli Gaza Airstrikes

Whacky kooky conspiracy theory territory not backed up with any evidence. Bush also did 9/11, right? I will do some more reading but this just seems ludicrous.

From the Wiki. But as you can see an admission from Ehud Olmert and various other sources. It's pretty well established that Israel supported Hamas to undermine Fatah, and now are doing the opposite. It's laughable.

Indeed Israel supported and encouraged Hamas' early growth in an effort to undermine the secular Fatah movement of Yasser Arafat.[2] According to UPI, Israel supported Hamas starting in the late 1970s as a "counterbalance to the Palestine Liberation Organization".[3] At that time, Hamas's focus was on "religious and social work". The grassroots movement concentrated on social issues such as exposing corruption, administration of waqf (trusts) and organizing community projects.

In a statement to the Israeli Parliament's (the Knesset) Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee on Monday February 12th 2007, Israeli Prime minister Ehud Olmert said "Netanyahu established Hamas, gave it life, freed Sheikh Yassin and gave him the opportunity to blossom" [4]

 

[nagiha]

Re: Israeli Gaza Airstrikes

Israel is blaiming the failure for peace on hamas. what’s the excuse in the west bank where hamas isn’t in charge? what’s the excuse for demolishing arab homes in the west bank and moving in jews in Jeruslam or the constant attacks by settlers these past few months?
Israel wasnt keeping to its side of the agreement.The truth is that Israel has never kept their word on the truce (not that they ever do), for the past months Israel has raided towns and killed Palestinians in Gaza, closed borders and cut off all food, fuel and all basic supplies to Gaza, Israel has been taunting and provoking the militants for months now.
There’s no doubt that the early elite in the Israeli government/Zionist movement were terrorist guerrillas.Hamas has in the past and will continue to respond to these attacks with further rocket attacks of its own across the border. There’s no real evidence that Israel’s military operations are actually doing anything to change the overall strategic structure of the situation with the Palestinians.

 

[bigb0yjames]

Re: Israeli Gaza Airstrikes

You look at all those holocaust stories and you think to yourself. Have the israelis no empathy at all? Haven't they learned anything from their ordeal?

They have morphed into their old tormentors. Truely shameful.

 

[ari89]

Re: Israeli Gaza Airstrikes

I think we should leave Israel to live out it's life under Yahweh Elohim and the Arab world should re-evaluate their position with insane Iran under the leadership of the blessed Ahmadjinedad.

DID I CHANGE THE TOPIC?

 

[sam04u]

Re: Israeli Gaza Airstrikes

The report says that Israel intervened in a border tunnel.

I'll find better sources for you on this. Also unless Israel is psychic and somehow could predict the motives - it is obviously a cover up for an attack on Hamas in breech of the cease-fire.

crazy conspiracy theories.

Provided a few sources including an Israeli Prime Minister.

 

[nagiha]

Re: Israeli Gaza Airstrikes

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH. So Israel's supposed to just lean back and take it and Hamas responds with rocket attacks of its own...

Directed at civilians. Great fucking going.

And Hamas and Palestinians are meant to sit their under occupation?

 

[sam04u]

Re: Israeli Gaza Airstrikes

and it doesn't mean that Hamas is under the control of zionist puppetmasters.

Where did that come from? I merely pointed out Israel was responsible for the propping up of Hamas. What were their motives? It's harder to justify attacks on Yasser Arafat who is willing to do peace talks, has arab support, and recognised the state of Israel. Infact, apparently they picked an organisation with "deny Israel" in it's charter to prop up according to Israeli propogandists.

The irony is delicious.

 

[sam04u]

Re: Israeli Gaza Airstrikes

Israel has this thing called Mossad. They tend to provide intelligence.

I wonder where that intelligence was when they bombed Qana in the 2006 war resulting in the deaths of dozens of innocent women and children and effectively annihilating their PR campaign for the war.