Israel and Palestine (2 Viewers)

[banco55]

Re: Israel & Palestine

The evil Isrealis are destroying Gaza:

"When an Israeli intelligence officer told us, with admirable specificity, that Palestinian militants had smuggled 31 tons of explosives into the Gaza strip, I assumed the explosives would be used to fight the Israelis. Was I wrong. In the last two weeks, those explosives were applied in Gaza against an internet café, a culture center, a library, a popular family restaurant, and a Bible Society which taught computer studies to both Muslims and Christian Palestinians. Today, another target was added to the list: Gaza’s only international school, which gave the kind of quality education that would enable young Palestinians to pursue higher studies elsewhere, to make something of their lives beyond Gaza's stockade-like walls. On the internet, I looked up the American International School in Gaza. Their website showed neatly dressed, proud kids sitting beside a sports field. The kids looked bright and shiny. And the website said “We are all extremely proud to be a part of the vision for the future of Palestine.”



http://time-blog.com/middle_east/2007/04/gaza_school_blast.html?xid=rss-mideast

 

[nathan71088]

Re: Israel & Palestine

The evil Isrealis are destroying Gaza:

"When an Israeli intelligence officer told us, with admirable specificity, that Palestinian militants had smuggled 31 tons of explosives into the Gaza strip, I assumed the explosives would be used to fight the Israelis. Was I wrong. In the last two weeks, those explosives were applied in Gaza against an internet café, a culture center, a library, a popular family restaurant, and a Bible Society which taught computer studies to both Muslims and Christian Palestinians. Today, another target was added to the list: Gaza’s only international school, which gave the kind of quality education that would enable young Palestinians to pursue higher studies elsewhere, to make something of their lives beyond Gaza's stockade-like walls. On the internet, I looked up the American International School in Gaza. Their website showed neatly dressed, proud kids sitting beside a sports field. The kids looked bright and shiny. And the website said “We are all extremely proud to be a part of the vision for the future of Palestine.”



http://time-blog.com/middle_east/2007/04/gaza_school_blast.html?xid=rss-mideast

Is that quote referring to Israeli's?

 

[mr EaZy]

Re: Israel & Palestine

Originally Posted by jenzipoo
the arabs and holocaust - no connection.

Well if you want to be technical. The Grand Mufti of Palestine supported the Nazis. Soooooooooooooo a connection could be suggested.

That site clearly manipulates history to serve israel's purpose, try to find an objective source


alright, lemme post up a quote : (its old- i listened to the audio last year i think)

Israeli social commentator and fierce critic of her country's handing of the Palestinian conflict, Tanya Reinhart, will speak in Sydney at the Seymour Centre Theatre on Monday 9 October as part of the Sydney Ideas international public lecture series.

Professor Reinhart will discuss what she has labelled a "suicidal war over land" in her Sydney lecture, co-hosted by the University of Technology, Sydney's Australian Centre for Independent Journalism (ACIJ) and the University of Sydney.

Professor Reinhart argues that despite the evacuation of Israeli settlements on the Gaza Strip the area remains a prison, "completely sealed from the outside world, nearing starvation and terrorised from land, sea and air by the Israeli army."

The same model is being applied to the West Bank.

"The wall project robs the land of the Palestinian villages in these areas, imprisons whole towns, and leaves their residents with no means of sustenance.

"The Israeli army is the body that shapes and executes Israel's policies and its vision, as it has unfolded the last couple of years, is eternal war, not just with the Palestinians, but with what the army views as their potential network of support, be it Hezbollah and Lebanon now, or Iran and Syria tomorrow.

"A small Jewish state of seven million residents (5.5 million Jews), surrounded by two-hundred million Arabs, is making itself the enemy of the whole Muslim world. There is no guarantee that such a state can survive. Saving the Palestinians also means saving Israel."

At UTS on Tuesday 10 October (the day following the lecture) Professor Reinhart will lead a public workshop entitled Stopping the Illegal Occupation: Acting for Peace and Justice in Palestine.

Tanya Reinhart is Emeritus Professor of Linguistics and Media studies at Tel-Aviv University and a Professor of Linguistics at the University of Utrecht in the Netherlands.

As of January 2007 she will also be a Global Distinguished Professor at New York University in the US. She is well known as a regular columnist in Yediot Aharonot, Israel's biggest daily newspaper.

Her books include Israel/Palestine: How to End the War of
1948 and The Road Map to Nowhere – Israel/Palestine since 2003.

The Sydney Ideas lecture will be held from 6.30pm on 9 October at the Seymour Centre. Tickets are $20 or $15 concession. For bookings call (02) 9351 7940.

For further details see: http://www.usyd.edu.au/sydneyideas

The 10 October workshop will be held from 12 to 2pm on Level 5, Building 2, Room 39.1, UTS City Campus (enter via the UTS Tower, Broadway), entry by donation.

It is presented by the UTS Research Initiative on International Activism, the Coalition for Justice and Peace in Palestine and the UTS Trans/forming Cultures research centre.

 

[YankeeChica]

Re: Israel & Palestine

"The Israeli army is the body that shapes and executes Israel's policies and its vision, as it has unfolded the last couple of years, is eternal war, not just with the Palestinians, but with what the army views as their potential network of support, be it Hezbollah and Lebanon now, or Iran and Syria tomorrow.

"A small Jewish state of seven million residents (5.5 million Jews), surrounded by two-hundred million Arabs, is making itself the enemy of the whole Muslim world. There is no guarantee that such a state can survive. Saving the Palestinians also means saving Israel."

I would not mind an eternal war between Israel and Arabs since Israel has always been winning the wars, despite outnumbered by arabs soldiers 10000:1

If arabs cannot have jewish neighbours, thats their problem. It shows their intolerance towards non muslims, their true colour. While they complained about being discriminated in australia, Europe and America, they never f try to practice what they preached at home

Israel: 1000 missiles raid would hit Iran
Apr 29, 2007

Iran's disputed nuclear programme could be severely hit by firing 1,000 cruise missiles in a 10-day attack, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert was quoted as saying on Saturday. Asked in an interview with Germany's Focus magazine whether military action would be an option if Iran continued to defy the United Nations, Olmert said: "Nobody is ruling it out." "It is impossible perhaps to destroy the entire nuclear programme but it would be possible to damage it in such a way that it would be set back years," Olmert said.

"It would take 10 days and would involve the firing of 1,000 Tomahawk cruise missiles." Meanwhile, Olmert's spokeswoman, Miri Eisin, said the prime minister had spoken to the author of the Focus article, but she said Olmert did not make the comments that were attributed to him. Eisin said the meeting was not an interview and was conducted for background purposes, on the understanding it would not be used.

"The prime minister did not say these things," Eisin said.

Ulrich Schmidla, a foreign affairs editor at Focus magazine, said he would try to contact the reporter who conducted the interview, who was a regular contributor. http://www.iranian.ws/iran_news/publish/article_21708.shtml

I think its a good idea , at last Olmert, talking tough (even if it was not true)

 

[Atilla89]

Re: Israel & Palestine

The argument that i think people here are trying to make is that the jewish people has suffered one of the worst atrocities ever committed, and yet they themselves, despite having suffered the holocaust, suppress and discriminate against the palestinians. Sure you can argue against suicide bombings and jihad and such, but thats not the point. What Israel is doing is a bit hypocritical, dont you think?

Hypocritical? So according to you trying to keep out terrorists from bombing shopping malls, schools and/or bombing without bothering to aim at legitament military targets is hypocritical. Also I don't exactly see how Israel is suppressing the Palestinians. It is very clear what they have to do inorder to get a state. If they would stop the violence and recognise Israel then perhaps they might be able to get themselves out of the appaling situation that they are in. As far as I am concerened Israel is helping to stop these terrorists from their favourite past time - self-combustion.

 

[Atilla89]

Re: Israel & Palestine

....whatever...



its not false and its not a lie, and there's nothing you can do about it. They're thirsty for palestinian blood, and the whole world is trying to deny that fact, but once again whatever...

You do realise that it is Israel who looks out for Palestinian civilians. Do you want to know who is thirsty for blood? It is Hamas. For example blowing themselves up in cafes, busy malls and on buses - I personally think that is what blood thirsty. Not only that but these people don't care about their own. Take a guess at who fires rockets from civilian buildings (including houses and mosques), it's not hard, it Hamas - a terrorist organisation voted DEMOCRACTICALLY (meaning by popular demand) into power. Another thing, guess who uses human shields? Again it's not hard it is Hamas.

This should make it simplier for you, when Israel accidently kills a civilian while trying to kill a terrorist they APOLOGISE! When Hamas indiscrimintaly fires a rocket into a town and they hit an Israeli be it a military target or civilian they REJOICE!

Is it now clear to you who is blood thirsty?

 

[MaNiElla]

Re: Israel & Palestine

You do realise that it is Israel who looks out for Palestinian civilians.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Do you want to know who is thirsty for blood? It is Hamas. For example blowing themselves up in cafes, busy malls and on buses - I personally think that is what blood thirsty. Not only that but these people don't care about their own. Take a guess at who fires rockets from civilian buildings (including houses and mosques), it's not hard, it Hamas - a terrorist organisation voted DEMOCRACTICALLY (meaning by popular demand) into power. Another thing, guess who uses human shields? Again it's not hard it is Hamas.

The israelis kill around 10-15 innocent palestinians daily, if not more.

Have you ever heard about the shoot to kill order? This is a famous scandal when israeli troops where caught killing unarmed palestinians. They said that they were following orders to shoot palestinians whether they were armed or not, and they used to shoot them even if they didnt pose a physical threat on them. Those soldiers even admitted to kill palestinians who were standing on their balcony, roof, looking out from the window, or simply walking in the street. They even admitted to slaughtering hundreds of young children.

Is it now clear to you who is blood thirsty?

Yes israel.....duuhh

 

[YankeeChica]

Re: Israel & Palestine

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:



The israelis kill around 10-15 innocent palestinians daily, if not more.

Have you ever heard about the shoot to kill order? This is a famous scandal when israeli troops where caught killing unarmed palestinians. They said that they were following orders to shoot palestinians whether they were armed or not, and they used to shoot them even if they didnt pose a physical threat on them. Those soldiers even admitted to kill palestinians who were standing on their balcony, roof, looking out from the window, or simply walking in the street. They even admitted to slaughtering hundreds of young children.




Yes israel.....duuhh

Those hundreds of children slaughtered are actually killed by palestinian terrorists, so they can parade dead bodies infront of Tv cameras (like the lebs and hizbollahs did during the israeli -hizbollah war and cry and bleap like a labouring goat to win sympathy from TV viewers, unfortunately for them, people are used to their tactics and told palestinians to shodd off and stop their crocodile tears and faking death.

In fact the majority of palestinians killed last month and this month are by Hamas terrorists and Fatah killing their fellow palestinians.

 

[MaNiElla]

Re: Israel & Palestine

Those hundreds of children slaughtered are actually killed by palestinian terrorists, so they can parade dead bodies infront of Tv cameras (like the lebs and hizbollahs did during the israeli -hizbollah war and cry and bleap like a labouring goat to win sympathy from TV viewers, unfortunately for them, people are used to their tactics and told palestinians to shodd off and stop their crocodile tears and faking death.

In fact the majority of palestinians killed last month and this month are by Hamas terrorists and Fatah killing their fellow palestinians.

Nope, the israeli troops confessed that they killed over a hundred young kids following the free to shoot order. They also said that over 1700 palestinians were murdered, while they were following these commands. This clearly shows that those troops are terrorists, killing the innnocent palestinians in this horriffic way.
So please next time, when you have nothing to support your weak argument, dont resort to the "no the palestinians killed each other" argument, because as usual, your filling the thread with nonsense.

 

[YankeeChica]

Re: Israel & Palestine

Nope, the israeli troops confessed that they killed over a hundred young kids following the free to shoot order. They also said that over 1700 palestinians were murdered, while they were following these commands. This clearly shows that those troops are terrorists, killing the innnocent palestinians in this horriffic way.

Source?

So please next time, when you have nothing to support your weak argument, dont resort to the "no the palestinians killed each other" argument, because as usual, your filling the thread with nonsense.

read this Hamas and Fatah militiamen have clashed repeatedly in the last three weeks, including on three separate occasions in just the last two days. Early Monday morning, three men were killed in Khan Yunis during a shoot-out between the factions that followed a series of tit-for-tat kidnappings. On Tuesday morning, trouble ensued in Gaza City after Hamas gunmen approached the heavily guarded house of a Fatah official; bullets again flew, injuring nine people, including five children. That same afternoon, at the funeral of a Fatah foot soldier killed the prior morning, gunfire erupted again, injuring three more. http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1192602,00.html

Palestinian medical officials say an off-duty security officer has been shot dead in an exchange of fire at the border crossing between Gaza and Egypt. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6599323.stm

Since late December2006, the Gaza Strip has seen an unprecedented internal violence involving Hamas-Fatah fighting, family feuds, robberies and attacks on residents’ properties as well as abductions http://www.imemc.org/article/48073

Hamas, Fatah militants trade gunfire in Gaza, wounding 3
Haniyya blames US 'gang-like actions' for fueling tensions

Compiled by Daily Star staff
Saturday, April 07, 2007 Hamas and Fatah militants clashed in the Gaza Strip on Friday and at least two militants and a young boy were wounded, Palestinian security sources and local residents said. Tensions are running high in Gaza despite the formation of a unity government on March 17 between the ruling Islamist Hamas movement and President Mahmoud Abbas's secular Fatah faction. http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=2&article_id=81258


While you pulled out most of your argument out of your own arse I actually have the worlds most reliable magazine and news agency to back up myself that Palestinians are killing themselves. Blood thirsty Hamas are kidnapping and killing fatah members and Fatahs are retaliating. Divide and rule policy at its best

 

[Atilla89]

Re: Israel & Palestine

This is to MaNiElla

Unless you're going to back your argument with sources and links I am going to have to ignore it as you have a clear bias against Israel (therby your neutrality in this matter is gone).

 

[Atilla89]

Re: Israel & Palestine

"The israelis kill around 10-15 innocent palestinians daily, if not more."

I very much doubt that those Palestinians are innocent. However when the Israeli army ACCIDENTLY kill an innocent Palestinian they apologise and it is seen as a sad thing. However when Hamas fires Kassam rockets into Israeli villages and towns such as Sderedot and kill innocent Israeli civilians Hamas REJOICES. Just from that it should be very clear to a person with average intelligence just who is blood thirsty here and it is clearly not the Israelis.

"Have you ever heard about the shoot to kill order? This is a famous scandal when israeli troops where caught killing unarmed palestinians. They said that they were following orders to shoot palestinians whether they were armed or not, and they used to shoot them even if they didnt pose a physical threat on them. Those soldiers even admitted to kill palestinians who were standing on their balcony, roof, looking out from the window, or simply walking in the street. They even admitted to slaughtering hundreds of young children. "

Under Israeli policy, anyone considered as posing a real threat to the lives of others, a so-called “ticking bomb”, is a legitimate shoot-to-kill target. According to Israeli rules of engagement, soldiers or police should fire initial warning shots at the ground, and not directly at the suspect. However I agree some of these soldiers were way out of line and guess what, these cases have gone to court. The IDF is doing something about this.

On the other hand when our supposedly non-blood thirsty Palestinians decide to self-combust or launch rockets and kill civilians, there are no courts there is no reprimands saying next time aim a bit to the right to hit the soldiers not the innocents, instead as I have stated earlier these people rejoice when death occurs.

 

[MaNiElla]

Re: Israel & Palestine

This is to MaNiElla

Unless you're going to back your argument with sources and links I am going to have to ignore it as you have a clear bias against Israel (therby your neutrality in this matter is gone).

There you go: http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1563476,00.html

 

[MaNiElla]

Re: Israel & Palestine

"The israelis kill around 10-15 innocent palestinians daily, if not more."

I very much doubt that those Palestinians are innocent. However when the Israeli army ACCIDENTLY kill an innocent Palestinian they apologise and it is seen as a sad thing. However when Hamas fires Kassam rockets into Israeli villages and towns such as Sderedot and kill innocent Israeli civilians Hamas REJOICES. Just from that it should be very clear to a person with average intelligence just who is blood thirsty here and it is clearly not the Israelis.

"Have you ever heard about the shoot to kill order? This is a famous scandal when israeli troops where caught killing unarmed palestinians. They said that they were following orders to shoot palestinians whether they were armed or not, and they used to shoot them even if they didnt pose a physical threat on them. Those soldiers even admitted to kill palestinians who were standing on their balcony, roof, looking out from the window, or simply walking in the street. They even admitted to slaughtering hundreds of young children. "

Under Israeli policy, anyone considered as posing a real threat to the lives of others, a so-called “ticking bomb”, is a legitimate shoot-to-kill target. According to Israeli rules of engagement, soldiers or police should fire initial warning shots at the ground, and not directly at the suspect. However I agree some of these soldiers were way out of line and guess what, these cases have gone to court. The IDF is doing something about this.

On the other hand when our supposedly non-blood thirsty Palestinians decide to self-combust or launch rockets and kill civilians, there are no courts there is no reprimands saying next time aim a bit to the right to hit the soldiers not the innocents, instead as I have stated earlier these people rejoice when death occurs.

Not all the israelis killed by palestinians are innocent, the palestinians only rejoice, when a enemy is killed, just like how the troops kill the palestinians and rejoice as well. Secondly, whats the use of The Israelis apologizing when they kill a innocent person, NOTHING, with all the technology that they have they should no how to properly aim at people. Their apology doesnt really make a difference, so thanks but no thanks, their apology wont do much for the victims family.

 

[MaNiElla]

Re: Israel & Palestine

Source?
read this Hamas and Fatah militiamen have clashed repeatedly in the last three weeks, including on three separate occasions in just the last two days. Early Monday morning, three men were killed in Khan Yunis during a shoot-out between the factions that followed a series of tit-for-tat kidnappings. On Tuesday morning, trouble ensued in Gaza City after Hamas gunmen approached the heavily guarded house of a Fatah official; bullets again flew, injuring nine people, including five children. That same afternoon, at the funeral of a Fatah foot soldier killed the prior morning, gunfire erupted again, injuring three more. http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1192602,00.html

Palestinian medical officials say an off-duty security officer has been shot dead in an exchange of fire at the border crossing between Gaza and Egypt. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6599323.stm

Since late December2006, the Gaza Strip has seen an unprecedented internal violence involving Hamas-Fatah fighting, family feuds, robberies and attacks on residents’ properties as well as abductions http://www.imemc.org/article/48073

Hamas, Fatah militants trade gunfire in Gaza, wounding 3
Haniyya blames US 'gang-like actions' for fueling tensions

Compiled by Daily Star staff
Saturday, April 07, 2007 Hamas and Fatah militants clashed in the Gaza Strip on Friday and at least two militants and a young boy were wounded, Palestinian security sources and local residents said. Tensions are running high in Gaza despite the formation of a unity government on March 17 between the ruling Islamist Hamas movement and President Mahmoud Abbas's secular Fatah faction. http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=2&article_id=81258


While you pulled out most of your argument out of your own arse I actually have the worlds most reliable magazine and news agency to back up myself that Palestinians are killing themselves. Blood thirsty Hamas are kidnapping and killing fatah members and Fatahs are retaliating. Divide and rule policy at its best

We're discussing israel and palestine, not the arabs and palestine. Once again, this proves even more the humiliation and brutality that the israelis exert on the Palestinian civilians. You seem to know this really well, which is why your always posting how palestinians are mistreating each other and how arabs mistreat them......its just so obvious

 

[Atilla89]

Re: Israel & Palestine

We're discussing israel and palestine, not the arabs and palestine. Once again, this proves even more the humiliation and brutality that the israelis exert on the Palestinian civilians. You seem to know this really well, which is why your always posting how palestinians are mistreating each other and how arabs mistreat them......its just so obvious

So talking about how Hamas and Fatah kill each other in a useless civil war is not related to Israel and Palestine? Lol. Not sure if you know you geography but Hamas and Fatah are in Palestine which directly related to this thread (Israel and Palestine). Again I don't see how Hamas and Fatah killing each other has anything to do with the "humiliation" and "brutality" forced on the Palestinian people; last time I checked these two organisations were completely Palestinian.

 

[MaNiElla]

Re: Israel & Palestine

So talking about how Hamas and Fatah kill each other in a useless civil war is not related to Israel and Palestine? Lol. Not sure if you know you geography but Hamas and Fatah are in Palestine which directly related to this thread (Israel and Palestine). Again I don't see how Hamas and Fatah killing each other has anything to do with the "humiliation" and "brutality" forced on the Palestinian people; last time I checked these two organisations were completely Palestinian.

If you read my post carefully, you'l clearly see that i wrote that --> "the humiliation and brutality that the Israelis exert on the Palestinian civilians”. Not the other way around Read things more carefully next time

 

[banco55]

Re: Israel & Palestine

We're discussing israel and palestine, not the arabs and palestine. Once again, this proves even more the humiliation and brutality that the israelis exert on the Palestinian civilians. You seem to know this really well, which is why your always posting how palestinians are mistreating each other and how arabs mistreat them......its just so obvious

LOL yes because the arabs that aren't under Israeli occupation live in such peaceful and stable countries.

 

[Atilla89]

Re: Israel & Palestine

Not all the israelis killed by palestinians are innocent, the palestinians only rejoice, when a enemy is killed, just like how the troops kill the palestinians and rejoice as well. Secondly, whats the use of The Israelis apologizing when they kill a innocent person, NOTHING, with all the technology that they have they should no how to properly aim at people. Their apology doesnt really make a difference, so thanks but no thanks, their apology wont do much for the victims family.

I find that first sentence incrediably sad and funny at the same time. Not only are you whitewashing their sins you're forgetting a very important fact. Barring the few soldiers (we are talking less then 10 here) they have managed to hit with their unguided Kassam rockets the very clear majority of their rockets have landed in villages such as Sderedot and many of the other border villages. Their tactics are almost the same the terrorist organisation, Hezbollah. About the Palestinians only rejoicing when an enemy is hit; well that is a clear lie every 'zionist terrorist' killed is a cause for a celebration and this has been clearly documented on the news and by acedemics. Israelis only rejoice when a terrorist is killed mind you, the government writes an apology everytime an innocent civilian is killed. The use of the Israeli government apologising when an innocent is killed is because it shows humanity and that the Israeli government cares. Believe me if they wanted to kill every Palestinian they could do it in under a week. Another thing about their technology, name me one country that can created a warhead that has a 1 metre blast dimameter? Its not hard - there are no countries in the world that can do this. Innocents die usually from human error or their use as human shields by Hamas (which has also been clearly documented and Hezbollah uses the same method as well).

 

[Atilla89]

Re: Israel & Palestine

If you read my post carefully, you'l clearly see that i wrote that --> "the humiliation and brutality that the Israelis exert on the Palestinian civilians”. Not the other way around Read things more carefully next time

And that is where you make the fundamental mistake of assuming that it is Israel who is humiliating and brutalising the Palestinian people. As I have thus demonstrated it is the Palestinian people, by electing a genocidal government, namely Hamas who are causing their own suffering. It is not Israel's fault that the Palestinian people are under sanction or suffer economical hardship, it the the DEMOCRATICALLY elected (by Palestinians) Hamas who is to blame. Before you start talking to me about the wall or checkpoint checks I wish to prempt you; this security measures were put in place because the Palestinian people refused to stop using violence.

Originally Posted by Atilla89
"You do realise that it is Israel who looks out for Palestinian civilians.

:laugh:"


I really don't know why you laugh because while the rest of the world have an embargo on Hamas it is the Israeli government who are donating 30 million USD (Israeli taxpayers' money) worth of goods into PA on monthly basis. Those good include food, clothing, medicine, tools and materials.