Judaism Question (1 Viewer)

[bored of sc]

Summarise the key similarities and differences between Orthodox and Progressive Judaism.


It's really hard - sure the differences are fairly straight forward, but its the similarities that are hard.

Any suggestions?

 

[lyounamu]

The beliefs the variants have in common include the belief in one God, who was, is and will be, both the transcendent and immanent Creator and carer of all things. God created humans in his image, and so they have the freedom to shape their destiny. However, as God knows every deed and thought of humans and continually intervenes in human history, rewards are given to those that keep His commandments and punishments to those that transgress them. This belief is central to the faiths of the modern variants of Judaism.[/FONT]
The text and writings of all the variants are found in the Hebrew Bible, which is divided into three sections: the Torah, the Prophets and the Writings. The Torah, containing the first five books of the Bible, is central to all three variants. It describes the relationship between the Jews and their God, and gives a detailed set of practical guidelines and ideals, as outlined in the Ten Commandments. Another text of Judaism, second most important after the Torah, is the Talmud. It is a compilation of the faith of Judaism, including customs and oral laws, that develop and interpret the Torah by applying it to the situations of everyday life. These sacred texts provide the Jews belonging to the Orthodox, Conservative and Progressive variants of Judaism, with teachings and laws from God.[/FONT]
The ethics of these variants have their roots in the covenant God made with His people, the Jews. In this covenant, it was agreed that humans would have the freedom of thought and will, but would have to account for their actions to God. As such, the Jews agree to abide by God’s commandments if God agrees not to forsake them, even though they may sometimes be unworthy of his favour. Most of the ethics are contained in the mitzvoth, which are laws based on God’s commandments. The main laws which are the focus in the modern variants of Judaism are the Sabbath law, which prohibits work on the Sabbath Day, and kashrut, Jewish dietary laws in which only kosher (permitted) foods are to be consumed because they have been prepared in the correct manner.[/FONT]
As part of their rituals and ceremonies, Jews regularly attend services in their synagogues. They are lead by a hazzan, or officiant, who, along with the congregation, faces the direction of Jerusalem. This is a common feature of the rituals and ceremonies of the modern variants of Judaism.

I will put up more if you wish.

 

[bored of sc]

The beliefs the variants have in common include the belief in one God, who was, is and will be, both the transcendent and immanent Creator and carer of all things. God created humans in his image, and so they have the freedom to shape their destiny. However, as God knows every deed and thought of humans and continually intervenes in human history, rewards are given to those that keep His commandments and punishments to those that transgress them. This belief is central to the faiths of the modern variants of Judaism.[/font]
The text and writings of all the variants are found in the Hebrew Bible, which is divided into three sections: the Torah, the Prophets and the Writings. The Torah, containing the first five books of the Bible, is central to all three variants. It describes the relationship between the Jews and their God, and gives a detailed set of practical guidelines and ideals, as outlined in the Ten Commandments. Another text of Judaism, second most important after the Torah, is the Talmud. It is a compilation of the faith of Judaism, including customs and oral laws, that develop and interpret the Torah by applying it to the situations of everyday life. These sacred texts provide the Jews belonging to the Orthodox, Conservative and Progressive variants of Judaism, with teachings and laws from God.[/font]
The ethics of these variants have their roots in the covenant God made with His people, the Jews. In this covenant, it was agreed that humans would have the freedom of thought and will, but would have to account for their actions to God. As such, the Jews agree to abide by God’s commandments if God agrees not to forsake them, even though they may sometimes be unworthy of his favour. Most of the ethics are contained in the mitzvoth, which are laws based on God’s commandments. The main laws which are the focus in the modern variants of Judaism are the Sabbath law, which prohibits work on the Sabbath Day, and kashrut, Jewish dietary laws in which only kosher (permitted) foods are to be consumed because they have been prepared in the correct manner.[/font]
As part of their rituals and ceremonies, Jews regularly attend services in their synagogues. They are lead by a hazzan, or officiant, who, along with the congregation, faces the direction of Jerusalem. This is a common feature of the rituals and ceremonies of the modern variants of Judaism.

I will put up more if you wish.

Thanks, very detailed and thorough.

 

[kaz1]

Hardcore jews: Kill everyone. Praise Israel
Nu school juze: Kill Islam. Destroy Palestine. Praise Israel.

lol i think there will be heaps more political responses

 

[Zeitgeist308]

Another text of Judaism, second most important after the Torah, is the Talmud. It is a compilation of the faith of Judaism, including customs and oral laws, that develop and interpret the Torah by applying it to the situations of everyday life. These sacred texts provide the Jews belonging to the Orthodox, Conservative and Progressive variants of Judaism, with teachings and laws from God.

From my knowledge progressive jew generally don't uphold the oral torah. The talmud along with the Tenach serve as the foundation of orthodox Judaism, but progressive jews on the otherhand hold the torah to their own interpretations, rejecting the othodox rabbinic interpretations of the Talmud.
I may be incorrect on this one though.

 

[Riffy Raffy]

Regardless of differences, the Old Testament is still one of the most horrible books in the world:

“Whoever rebels against your word and does not obey your words, whatever you may command them, will be put to death. Only be strong and courageous!” (Josh 1:18 )

“See, I have delivered Jericho into your hands, along with its king and its fighting men… They devoted the city to the LORD and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it-men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.” (Josh 2:2, 21)

“And when the LORD your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.” (Deut 7:2)

“However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes.” (Deut 20:16)

"Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys." (1 Sam 15:3)

"While the Israelites were in the desert, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day. Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly, and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. Then the LORD said to Moses, "The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp." So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the LORD commanded Moses." (Numbers 15:32-36)

"If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again." (Deuteronomy 13:6-12 )

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them." (Leviticus 20:13)

"Prepare a place to slaughter his sons for the sins of their forefathers; they are not to rise to inherit the land and cover the earth with their cities." (Isiah 14:21)

"The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God.They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open." (Hosea 13:16)

 

[SomeoneCool]

Are you looking for "Politically correct" champ?

I'm so sick of politically correct bullshit! I'm gonna say Islam is a religion of hate, terrorism and destruction because that is exactly what I see! I don't have to sugar-coat shit to make it correct for people to hear. If you want me to believe that Islam IS in fact a religion of peace and tolerance, prove it to me and I will jump right on the Islamic bandwagon.

 

[kaz1]

I'm so sick of politically correct bullshit! I'm gonna say Islam is a religion of hate, terrorism and destruction because that is exactly what I see! I don't have to sugar-coat shit to make it correct for people to hear. If you want me to believe that Islam IS in fact a religion of peace and tolerance, prove it to me and I will jump right on the Islamic bandwagon.

Qur'an 49:9 "If two parties among the Believers fall into fighting, make peace: but if one becomes aggressive, then fight against the one that transgresses until it complies."

Qur'an 4:90 "For those who join a group between you and whom there is a treaty, or (those who become) weary of fighting you, had Allah had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. Therefore if they withdraw and wage not war, and send you (guarantees of) peace, then Allah has not given you a way (to war) against them." [The purpose of terror is to cause people to become so "weary of fighting" they surrender.]

Qur'an 4:91 "You will find others who, while wishing to live in peace and being safe from you to gain the confidence of their people; thrown back to mischief headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and offer you peace besides restraining their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given you a clear sanction and authority." [So if you wish to live in peace, but are perceived as being mischievous (i.e., non-Muslim), Allah has given his Jihad warriors "a clear sanction and authority to seize and kill" you.]

 

[sam04u]

Ba'al your post is so full of inconsistancies that responding entirely to every point you made would not only be a waste of effort, but it would also not achieve anything. You are a propogandist, an antagonist of Islam - worst of all is that in some demented way you believe that by attacking Islam you'll some way mend Israel's illegitimacy.


A few short points:

1) You stated "Islam condones arbitrary violence during the time of Mohammed (PBUH)", yet almost all of the examples you cited were of defensive wars.

2) You show a complete lack of understanding of Islam e.g; You stated "Mohammed (PBUH) authored the Qur'an", now if that isn't an example of Islamic illiteracy I don't know what is. That's akin to saying "A pen authored a thesis" in muslim perspective.

3) It's not your biased perspective of Islam that is valid in interpretting whether or not Islam condones or doesn't condone violence, but rather that of those that purport to follow it. If they (all or most) say it doesn't, then it doesn't.

 

[lyounamu]

Ok, whatever you said above, I do not care and I will not respond to that. I will delete my post regarding Islam as it is not a relevant post. Moderators will delete all the irrelevant craps soon anyway (this is the Judaism thread!)

 

[sam04u]

Your bias is quite strong.

ROFLMAO!

"The bias is strong with you sam04u!"

"May the bias be with you!"

Now every criticism of a violent belief system is an excuse to legitimise Israel?
Snap out of it and see the world for what it is - namely, not part of a Jewish conspiracy theory involving the New World Order et al.

Jewish conspiracy... theory? My theory on why some nut like you who is in no way effected by Islam, is regurgitating Zionist propoganda... is a Jewish conspiracy theory? I think you need to lay off the meds, or get on some.

This has nothing to do with a "Jewish conspiracy theory", but it has everything to do Zionist propoganda aimed at Islam. That's exactly what it is, it's exactly why you purport to know Islamic history.

What you're saying, atleast the context is almost like saying: Britain supported Nazi Germany. Because Tony Blair was seen shaking hands with the current president of Germany.

There is a distinct lack of timeline, or context. For example you mentioned "Harb el Badr" As an example of arbitrarily condoning violence. Whereas it was perhaps one of the most influential and decisive wars in human history. If not for that war, there would be no Islam as it is known as today. Secondly, that war was waged against those that forced the early muslims into exile, and persecuted/attempted to kill Mohammed (PBUH).

It was very much a defensive war. All wars during the period of Mohammed (PBUH) were, including some which were directly after.


You also mentioned the "Battle of the trench"... that was a war in which Mohammed (PBUH) created a fort around a location by digging a deep trench around it, preventing horses or ladders from crossing over. That is perhaps one of the most distorted examples of an act of aggression than I have ever heard.

And your analogy is quite hilarious. See, it relies on the assumption that there is a god named Allah who communicated to Muhammad via Gabriel. That is a far logical stretch I must say.

But as I and majority of the world do not believe the Quran to be the divine word of God it is I who stands correct (once again).

Right, and the people who adhere to the Qur'an believe that as a fact. Stating otherwise is Islamic illiteracy. Again, your perspective of Islam is irrelevant. Those (such as myself) who believe it, is relevant.

*snip*

LOL.
Right, I'm an apologist for Islam. My views on my views are unimportant, whereas your views on my views... are?

I'm the muslim here. Not you.

 

[Ba'al Shem Tov]

Please, don't be prejudiced without fully knowing about it. kaz1 is right. Qur'an does not condone violence, it is just that some Muslims interpret it wrong and they carry out terrorist attacks from that wrong interpretation.

Actually, the Quran does arbitrarily condone violence many times. Similarly, the context it was produced in and was used to compliment was one of violence. Just follow the life of its apparent author, Muhammad, especially after the 622 Hijra to Medina.
Remember the Nakhla raids? Remember the poor Quraysh killed by Muhammad? Remember when he sent Abdullah bin Jahsh to kill a tribe of Quraysh and rob them?
OH! What about the Battle of Badr? Then the declaration of war against the Arab Pagans? Or when he laid siege against the Qaynuqa?
Remember when he contracted young Muhammad Bin Maslama to assassinate the poet Ka'b bin l-Ashraf? Remember how straight after that he said "Kill the Jew that falls into your power" and his followers started murdering innocent people such as the merchant Ibn Sunayna?
And let us not forget Muhammad's assassination contract out on Sufyan ibn Khalid al-Hudhali!
The Battle of Uhud ring any bells?
The Battle of the Trench?
Muhammad's massacre of the Qurayzah tribe?

But of course. Even though all history concerning Islam is violent we are still obligated to pretend it is the worlds most peaceful religion. The 11,059 recorded terrorist attacks committed by Muslims in the past 6 years are just a massive coincidence. The history if Islam being violent is a massive coincidence! The Quran ordering violence is a massive coincidence!

In fact, it's all just a coincidence which some how intelligent people mistakenly view as being related to Islam being violent!
Awesome story, lyounamu.

-----------------------------------

worst of all is that in some demented way you believe that by attacking Islam you'll some way mend Israel's illegitimacy.

Your bias is quite strong. Now every criticism of a violent belief system is an excuse to legitimise Israel?
Snap out of it and see the world for what it is - namely, not part of a Jewish conspiracy theory involving the New World Order et al.

1) You stated "Islam condones arbitrary violence during the time of Mohammed (PBUH)", yet almost all of the examples you cited were of defensive wars.

You really do have some habitual need to lie.
But I do get where you're coming from. They all deserved to be killed for not being Muslim. So obviously, it was a defensive war - killing innocent people and robbing them is retaliation for not accepting a megalomaniacs self procolmation as a prophet of god.

2) You show a complete lack of understanding of Islam e.g; You stated "Mohammed (PBUH) authored the Qur'an", now if that isn't an example of Islamic illiteracy I don't know what is. That's akin to saying "A pen authored a thesis" in muslim perspective.

Again you attempt to mislead.
Maybe you should quote me correctly for a change. The truth only hurts when you believe in a
lie, Sam.
And your analogy is quite hilarious. See, it relies on the assumption that there is a god named Allah who communicated to Muhammad via Gabriel. That is a far logical stretch I must say.

But as I and majority of the world do not believe the Quran to be the divine word of God it is I who stands correct (once again).

3) It's not your biased perspective of Islam that is valid in interpretting whether or not Islam condones or doesn't condone violence, but rather that of those that purport to follow it. If they (all or most) say it doesn't, then it doesn't.

But alas, they don't say it doesn't condone violence. In fact, many act out in compliance with the Quran killing hundreds daily. Odd dilema you find yourself in trying to wiggle out of it in this manner.
The fact that: 1) The Quran promotes violence; 2) Muhammad was violent; 3) The Quran is a product of this violence - is all concrete and whatever you and fellow apologists claim will never change that.

A complete fail Sam but I assume you are used to it by now.

 

[Ba'al Shem Tov]

Jewish conspiracy... theory? My theory on why some nut like you who is in no way effected by Islam, is regurgitating Zionist propoganda... is a Jewish conspiracy theory? I think you need to lay off the meds, or get on some.
This has nothing to do with a "Jewish conspiracy theory", but it has everything to do Zionist propoganda aimed at Islam. That's exactly what it is, it's exactly why you purport to know Islamic history.

Yes. Everything is Zionist Propaganda.
They've infiltrated the schools!
They've infiltrated the Universities!
They've infiltrated the Governments!

All hail the omniscient Zionist lobby.

As I've said earlier - is it possible for you to: Not lie or attempt to mislead; Actually reply to a point; apply some sort of logical reasoning and interpretive skills?