Lobby group seeks election of Muslim MP (1 Viewer)

[Not-That-Bright]

Re: Muslim demands their own MP

Lakemba is like 20% muslim, not 50%.

A 20% muslim population is more than enough of a base, especially if the person running on muslim values is particularly favoured amongst them.

Yeah except that I'm for strictly controlled euthenasia (and muslims opposing euthenasia is actually hypocritical)

If you had to choose, would you prefer the extremely conservative muslim or someone left wing on this issue?

, for schools teaching or not teaching religion depending on demand.

I'm sure they'd agree, teaching or not teaching children about religion based on the demand of their parents.

The muslim position on abortion is based on arbitrary religious thinking and its as retarded as all the pro-choice people.

Not necessarily bshoc, they'd likely make the same arguments you do, simply having a further religious underpinning.

You'd be wrong. America, which I'd say has far more sectarian tension in politics than we do, has elected a Muslim congressman from a district which is only 1-2% muslim.

Someone so proud of their religion I might add, they requested to be able to take the oath on a copy of the koran instead of the bible.

I'm also yet to see an MP elected due to being a Catholic or Protestant.

I can't think of any examples along particularly demoninational lines, but I can think of a few who ran a campaign based on 'christian values' - I'm thinking steve fielding here.

 

[circusmind]

Re: Muslim demands their own MP

Wrong, and not even close

http://www8.abs.gov.au/ABSNavigation/prenav/ProductSelect?newproducttype=QuickStats&btnSelectProduct=View+QuickStats+%3E&areacode=SED10043&geography=&method=&productlabel=&producttype=&topic=&navmapdisplayed=true&javascript=true&breadcrumb=LP&topholder=0&leftholder=0&currentaction=201&action=401&textversion=false

My mistake. Unless the demographics of the region have changed enormously since 2001, the census sure does pwn my Wikipedia-skillz

I'm also yet to see an MP elected due to being a Catholic or Protestant.

There was heaps and heaps of that sort of sectarian influence on politics in Australia not too long ago....

 

[bshoc]

Re: Muslim demands their own MP

Oh I think I know this one. You find a person who you feel represents both their community and the wider muslim community, you promote/fund/vote for that person ??? Profit.

You wont, every muslim who muscles around in state Labor is an absolute scumbag, more than Iemma the wanker himself. The muslim community generates far less good people than most others, which rules down any of them being in politics.

- They're not necessarily promoting someone who is soley for muslims... non-muslims can vote for a muslim candidate.

They wont, the right wont tolerate it and the far left douchebags will find it offensive to their atheism.

- Their point is to encourage more muslim voices to have a run for government so that they possibly may be chosen.
- This has nothing to do with any imposition on australia's normal democratic processes and I sincerely challenge you to find how it is so.

Muslims shouldn't be in parliament, look at any other country where muslims are, its a waste of a seat.

 

[bshoc]

Re: Muslim demands their own MP

My mistake. Unless the demographics of the region have changed enormously since 2001, the census sure does pwn my Wikipedia-skillz

My guess is you found the stats for just the suburb of Lakemba, the electorate is much more than that.

There was heaps and heaps of that sort of sectarian influence on politics in Australia not too long ago....

As far as Australian political history goes, the closest its come to that was the domination of the Unions by the catholics, but they never imposed their religion into the program.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Re: Muslim demands their own MP

You wont, every muslim who muscles around in state Labor is an absolute scumbag, more than Iemma the wanker himself. The muslim community generates far less good people than most others, which rules down any of them being in politics.

I don't know near enough about muslims in nsw state politics, but from what I understand there's several victorian muslim MP's. 'Good people' seem in short supply everywhere in nsw state politics.

They wont, the right wont tolerate it and the far left douchebags will find it offensive to their atheism.

I'd vote for a muslim if I agreed with their other policies and they were accepting of other religions. I'm a secularist, I don't wish to impose atheism on anyone/anything, as with most atheists.

Muslims shouldn't be in parliament, look at any other country where muslims are, its a waste of a seat.

UK?
USA?

You can call it a waste of a seat all you want, but if their community chose them I don't see placing any value on their appointment is needed.

 

[circusmind]

Re: Muslim demands their own MP

My guess is you found the stats for just the suburb of Lakemba, the electorate is much more than that.

Probably. Still, as NTB has said, 12% is a lot. If a muslim were to campaign without overt religious sentiment, I have no doubt he could get elected in Australia. Look at guys like Steven Fielding. His religious backing consists of far less than 12% of the electorate.

As far as Australian political history goes, the closest its come to that was the domination of the Unions by the catholics, but they never imposed their religion into the program.

DLP/ALP??

 

[bshoc]

Re: Muslim demands their own MP

A 20% muslim population is more than enough of a base, especially if the person running on muslim values is particularly favoured amongst them.

Wont happen, the base would have to larger than that, well near 40%.

If you had to choose, would you prefer the extremely conservative muslim or someone left wing on this issue?

Someone left wing on issues.

I'm sure they'd agree, teaching or not teaching children about religion based on the demand of their parents.

Have a look at any country with muslim MP's in parliament ..

Not necessarily bshoc, they'd likely make the same arguments you do, simply having a further religious underpinning.

No their arguments and mine are nothing alike, mine are never based on religious beliefs. Mine are always based on what is the most logical and what is the safest choice, and most of all pragmatism not arbitrary logic or idealism, rules out muslims on all counts.

Someone so proud of their religion I might add, they requested to be able to take the oath on a copy of the koran instead of the bible.

Well Americans are known for their stupidity, that electorate had immigrants and black through the roof, its not surprising.

I can't think of any examples along particularly demoninational lines, but I can think of a few who ran a campaign based on 'christian values' - I'm thinking steve fielding here.

"Christian values" encompasses 75% of the country, its not exactly devisive, plus the record of christians in government is a good one.

 

[bshoc]

Re: Muslim demands their own MP

Probably. Still, as NTB has said, 12% is a lot. If a muslim were to campaign without overt religious sentiment, I have no doubt he could get elected in Australia. Look at guys like Steven Fielding. His religious backing consists of far less than 12% of the electorate.

Felding is in the senate idiot, he doesent have an electorate.

DLP/ALP??

The DLP split off as a conservative party, not as a Catholic party.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Re: Muslim demands their own MP

Look at guys like Steven Fielding. His religious backing consists of far less than 12% of the electorate.

I disagree, while the number of evangelical christians, born agains is probably fairly low, christians in general could probably still support him for religious/political reasons. I see little denominational tiffs anymore regarding christianity in Australia, the new demon is muslims.

Felding is in the senate idiot, he doesent have an electorate.

Victoria?

Wont happen, the base would have to larger than that, well near 40%.

What do you base that on? It's possible (especially if they manage to get a candidate within the liberal/labor party) that they could get in with very little of a muslim base. They can represent the muslim community without necessarily espousing their religion on every single issue.

Have a look at any country with muslim MP's in parliament ..

UK?
USA?

No their arguments and mine are nothing alike, mine are never based on religious beliefs.

Neither are there's, they just stem from their religious belief. I.e. Intelligent Design, for the most part that stems from religious belief, that doesn't necessarily mean their arguments are religious arguments though.

"Christian values" encompasses 75% of the country, its not exactly devisive, plus the record of christians in government is a good one.

I agree, but you just questioned the existance of people being elected on the basis of christian religious belief... perhaps you merely meant denominations, but that seems a silly comparison to me.

 

[circusmind]

Re: Muslim demands their own MP

"Christian values" encompasses 75% of the country, its not exactly devisive, plus the record of christians in government is a good one.

The sort of evangelical beliefs Fielding represents are well under 5% nationally, and quite far removed from nebulous notions of 'Christian values'.

 

[bshoc]

Re: Muslim demands their own MP

I don't know near enough about muslims in nsw state politics, but from what I understand there's several victorian muslim MP's. 'Good people' seem in short supply everywhere in nsw state politics.

Iemma and the ALP is friendly with the muslims, they beat up a few anglos like yourself, Iemma lets the off the hook, leashes the cops, and he gets the votes, quite an arrangement.

I'd vote for a muslim if I agreed with their other policies and they were accepting of other religions. I'm a secularist, I don't wish to impose atheism on anyone/anything, as with most atheists.

Islam tells you to kill or convert people of other faiths, with which you have no problem, and yet some mildly contriversial thing in the bible sets off a pagelong rant, you're a pathetic hypocrite mate.

UK?
USA?

You can call it a waste of a seat all you want, but if their community chose them I don't see placing any value on their appointment is needed.

The point is if close or over 50% muslims means violent religious shithole, so do its component parts.

 

[bshoc]

Re: Muslim demands their own MP

The sort of evangelical beliefs Fielding represents are well under 5% nationally, and quite far removed from nebulous notions of 'Christian values'.

No they're not, FF is a mainstream christian party, they one you're looking for is the CDP.

 

[circusmind]

Re: Muslim demands their own MP

Felding is in the senate idiot, he doesent have an electorate.

e·lec·tor·ate (*-lĕk'tər-*t)

n.

1. A body of qualified voters.

The DLP split off as a conservative party, not as a Catholic party.

Likewise, a Muslim would be elected to Parliament as a conservative not as a Muslim. It doesn't mean that there isn't significant religious motivation in the politics. The DLP split had a lot to do with Catholicism.

 

[bshoc]

Re: Muslim demands their own MP

e·lec·tor·ate (�*-lĕk'tər-�*t) http://content.answers.com/main/content/img/pron.gif
n.

1. A body of qualified voters.

They'll encounter their own problems in the senate race, just as unlikely, but for reasons of preferences and vote accum.

Likewise, a Muslim would be elected to Parliament as a conservative not as a Muslim. It doesn't mean that there isn't significant religious motivation in the politics. The DLP split had a lot to do with Catholicism.

The point is "conservatism" as you interpret it in the muslim community has very little in common with western conservatism or neo-liberal thinking, most western conservatives would prefer a western liberal over a muslim any day, I know I would, though neither is still the best.

 

[circusmind]

Re: Muslim demands their own MP

No they're not, FF is a mainstream christian party, they one you're looking for is the CDP.

Assemblies of God pentecostals are the mainstay of the party.

 

[bshoc]

Re: Muslim demands their own MP

Assemblies of God pentecostals are the mainstay of the party.

They're hardly the main vote however, nor are they really the party outside of Victoria, nor are the Assemblies hardcore evangelicals.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Re: Muslim demands their own MP

Islam tells you to kill or convert people of other faiths, with which you have no problem, and yet some mildly contriversial thing in the bible sets off a pagelong rant, you're a pathetic hypocrite mate.

Incase you've ignored my posts on this forum that don't offend christians, I argue just as heavily (if not moreso) against the muslim appologists on this forum. There's no hypocracy here, I'd vote for a christian who's views are favourable to me if he was for the most part a secularist, also.

The point is if close or over 50% muslims means violent religious shithole, so do its component parts.

Well that's a nice corrolation, want to try to prove the causation? I.e. find a christian nation with fairly similar circumstances to a muslim nation, compare the two. I'd try looking in africa i.e. Ethopia perhaps. I don't know what you'll find, but I imagine it's a similar case... which tells us it probably has very little/nothing to do with the muslims in government or the muslim populace.

 

[bshoc]

Re: Muslim demands their own MP

Incase you've ignored my posts on this forum that don't offend christians, I argue just as heavily (if not moreso) against the muslim appologists on this forum. There's no hypocracy here, I'd vote for a christian who's views are favourable to me if he was for the most part a secularist, also.

And who would you take if neither were secularist, the christian or the muslim (remember compulsory voting)

 

[circusmind]

Re: Muslim demands their own MP

They're hardly the main vote however

Precisely my point. In Australia, as you well noted, you're not going to get elected on religious grounds, although they can play an important part. Any Muslim with the smarts to get elected would try to nail the Muslim demographic while being secular enough to get non-Muslim votes. With the right candidate, there's no reason this couldn't work.

 

[bshoc]

Re: Muslim demands their own MP

Precisely my point. In Australia, as you well noted, you're not going to get elected on religious grounds, although they can play an important part. Any Muslim with the smarts to get elected would try to nail the Muslim demographic while being secular enough to get non-Muslim votes. With the right candidate, there's no reason this couldn't work.

Except the candidate will be two faced and everyone will see it, just incase your didnt know secularism contradicts every muslim value there is.