Macquarie B.Comm/Arts + Scholarship or USYD Comm/Adv Studies? (1 Viewer)

Manaka

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Hello,

So up until now, I was so set on studying a B.Commerce/Adv Studies at USYD majoring in Accounting and English. But just now, I received notification for a $5k p.a scholarship offer from Macquarie for a B.Commerce/Arts.

I'm having a hard time even weighing in the factors that makes this decision, so:
1. What factors should I consider in making this decision?
Transport-wise, I live in the Western Sydney Area, able to access Blacktown Station. There's an express train from Blacktown to Redfern for USYD, and a bus from Blacktown to MQ. In terms of unit of study, I can see that USYD English offers a greater diversity and depth of English units compared to Macquarie, but how much would this difference in quality affect me education-wise and for job prospects?
2. What should I do? :haha: Well, what would you do?

thanks~
 

Drdusk

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Hello,

So up until now, I was so set on studying a B.Commerce/Adv Studies at USYD majoring in Accounting and English. But just now, I received notification for a $5k p.a scholarship offer from Macquarie for a B.Commerce/Arts.

I'm having a hard time even weighing in the factors that makes this decision, so:
1. What factors should I consider in making this decision?
Transport-wise, I live in the Western Sydney Area, able to access Blacktown Station. There's an express train from Blacktown to Redfern for USYD, and a bus from Blacktown to MQ. In terms of unit of study, I can see that USYD English offers a greater diversity and depth of English units compared to Macquarie, but how much would this difference in quality affect me education-wise and for job prospects?
2. What should I do? :haha: Well, what would you do?

thanks~
Unless I wanted to look for pursuing something overseas in the future where Usyds prestige will play a large factor, I would probably go with Macquarie in this instance. You get a great scholarship and really for Australia it’s not gonna make a large impact if you go with the less prestigious option. Your closer as well to Macquarie so combined with everything else really Macquarie would be the better option imo.
 

BLIT2014

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Which University is quicker to get to for you/ how much?

Have you visited both campuses?

If Macquarie did not provide the scholarship would you still be considering it?

What are you planning to do in the future?

If you do end up going to Macquarie, and studying accounting make sure you study all the units that are in the Professional Accounting Major so that you meet the tertiary education prerequisites for the various Accounting bodies?
 

sida1049

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In my opinion, unless if you really need it, $5k really isn't much in the long run (uni fees/debt will probably exceed $35k).

I think you should definitely pick on whichever uni that offers the selection of units you want, and based on the structure of your degree (e.g. what kind of compulsory units). The strength of research is also worth looking at if honours and/or postgrad is something you might do in the future.

Commuting time from Blacktown station to either uni seems to be roughly the same (roughly 50min to Macquarie uni by bus and 48min to USYD via Redfern station). (The train is a little cheaper, but Macquarie is giving you the scholarship so...)

I personally don't think the prestige from USYD will net you any employment points. As long as you consistently apply yourself to finding internship (or research) experience, you'll be a very competitive candidate by the end of your degree.

Regarding the USYD, instead of doing B. Commerce/B. Adv Studies for accounting and literature, I actually recommend doing B. Arts/B. Adv Studies for accounting and literature. Why? Because B. Commerce has 24 credit points (4 units) worth of compulsory bs business units (e.g. "future of business", that kind of thing). I personally think that these units are worthless to most people, and you're better off taking B. Arts so you can free up those 24cp and use them on courses you actually wanna do (economics? philosophy? film studies?). You might even be able to come out with an additional minor with additional flexibility of the latter degree.

My personal opinion:
Based on the wider range of units and majors at USYD, I would go with B. Arts/B. Adv Studies at USYD, major in the majors you want (without the boring, useless commerce core units). It would make your time at uni more fun and refreshing.

But:
The choice here is really down to your personal taste. Neither option is significantly better than the other when it comes down to getting a job by the end of your degree. This is really a matter of (a) consistently putting in the effort in your studies, (b) actively look for internship/research opportunities and (c) do honours (optional, but definitely helps - any honours will do, even in literature!).
 

Drdusk

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In my opinion, unless if you really need it, $5k really isn't much in the long run (uni fees/debt will probably exceed $35k).
Isn't it 5k per year.. That's like more than half the total you would pay per year for uni.
 

Manaka

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In my opinion, unless if you really need it, $5k really isn't much in the long run (uni fees/debt will probably exceed $35k).

I think you should definitely pick on whichever uni that offers the selection of units you want, and based on the structure of your degree (e.g. what kind of compulsory units). The strength of research is also worth looking at if honours and/or postgrad is something you might do in the future.

Commuting time from Blacktown station to either uni seems to be roughly the same (roughly 50min to Macquarie uni by bus and 48min to USYD via Redfern station). (The train is a little cheaper, but Macquarie is giving you the scholarship so...)

I personally don't think the prestige from USYD will net you any employment points. As long as you consistently apply yourself to finding internship (or research) experience, you'll be a very competitive candidate by the end of your degree.

Regarding the USYD, instead of doing B. Commerce/B. Adv Studies for accounting and literature, I actually recommend doing B. Arts/B. Adv Studies for accounting and literature. Why? Because B. Commerce has 24 credit points (4 units) worth of compulsory bs business units (e.g. "future of business", that kind of thing). I personally think that these units are worthless to most people, and you're better off taking B. Arts so you can free up those 24cp and use them on courses you actually wanna do (economics? philosophy? film studies?). You might even be able to come out with an additional minor with additional flexibility of the latter degree.

My personal opinion:
Based on the wider range of units and majors at USYD, I would go with B. Arts/B. Adv Studies at USYD, major in the majors you want (without the boring, useless commerce core units). It would make your time at uni more fun and refreshing.

But:
The choice here is really down to your personal taste. Neither option is significantly better than the other when it comes down to getting a job by the end of your degree. This is really a matter of (a) consistently putting in the effort in your studies, (b) actively look for internship/research opportunities and (c) do honours (optional, but definitely helps - any honours will do, even in literature!).
Hmmm interesting... (Btw your free English Essays were literally godsends during my HSC time so thank you Sida!!!!). I've been looking at the English units at Macquarie and they aren't as exciting as Usyd's ._. So I guess, when you put the two and two together, both uni's don't matter 'name-wise'...
 

sida1049

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Isn't it 5k per year.. That's like more than half the total you would pay per year for uni.
That's true, but the choice here isn't X vs X + $5k; the opportunity cost of taking that $5k is that you get a narrower range of choice over units and possibly miss out on those that you would have really enjoyed/benefited from.

Also, I totally forgot to mention this, but if OP ends up pursuing honours, the USYD option will actually be cheaper! To explain this, basically the way that honours generally works is that you add an additional year to the end of your degree. So if OP does honours at Macquarie, their undergrad will be 5 years, so roughly the uni fee/debt is $45k - $5k = $40k (assuming $9k per year on average).

USYD, however, works differently. One of the reasons why they introduced the B. Adv Studies program is to phase out the traditional appended year for honours, so the last year of their combined B. Adv Studies degree is actually their honours year. That is to say, to do honours in B. Arts or Commerce with B. Adv Studies, it's still only 4 years, so the uni fee is roughly $36k.
 

sida1049

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Hmmm interesting... (Btw your free English Essays were literally godsends during my HSC time so thank you Sida!!!!).
I'm actually very glad to hear this! You're the first person to tell me that it helped after all these years. And to know that you're planning to go on to do some kind of a literature major is amazing!

I've been looking at the English units at Macquarie and they aren't as exciting as Usyd's ._. So I guess, when you put the two and two together, both uni's don't matter 'name-wise'...
Yeah, exactly. It really just comes down to the specifics, which vary from from person to person, so there aren't any general rule of thumb like "Arts -> USYD, finance -> Macquarie".

But regardless of which uni you go to, you'll do just fine as long as you stay focused.
 

brent012

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Also, I totally forgot to mention this, but if OP ends up pursuing honours, the USYD option will actually be cheaper! To explain this, basically the way that honours generally works is that you add an additional year to the end of your degree. So if OP does honours at Macquarie, their undergrad will be 5 years, so roughly the uni fee/debt is $45k - $5k = $40k (assuming $9k per year on average).
But wasn't it a 5k pa scholarship? That would mean the MQ cost would be 5 * (9-5) = 20k, so they'd be 16k ahead at MQ.
 
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sida1049

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But wasn't it a 5k pa scholarship? That would mean the MQ cost would be 5 * (9-4) = 20k, so they'd be 16k ahead at MQ.
Oh! I thought it was $5k one-off. I retract my previous argument!
 

brent012

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Oh! I thought it was $5k one-off. I retract my previous argument!
It's still a valid point though, does minimise the benefits. If the USyd course is 4 rather than 5 years, you might be financially better off by getting employed a year earlier. If you consider the income, super (+ extra year of compounding) and value of a years experience it'd definitely be a lot more than 16k + HECS interest!

But I wonder if we are considering like for like with BA vs B Adv Studies (Honours). I'm not familiar with adv studies, but for a year to be cut off, you'd have to be losing something compared to doing a BA? For example, is the Adv Studies (Honours) not equivalent to the standard commerce honours, is it just a new way of marketing honours (and not equivalent to BComm/BA) etc. From a quick glance at the website, it looks like either of those two things depending on what units you choose to pick.

It also seems it might be possible to do the coursework thread of Adv Studies (or an unrelated honours topic for Adv Studies (Honours)) and a standard Comm honours year, which would take the course back to 5 years but allow you to pursue whatever you wanted for Adv Studies (as with a BA)?
 

sida1049

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It's still a valid point though, does minimise the benefits. If the USyd course is 4 rather than 5 years, you might be financially better off by getting employed a year earlier. If you consider the income, super (+ extra year of compounding) and value of a years experience it'd definitely be a lot more than 16k + HECS interest!
Yes definitely, this is another opportunity cost to consider.

But I wonder if we are considering like for like with BA vs B Adv Studies (Honours). I'm not familiar with adv studies, but for a year to be cut off, you'd have to be losing something compared to doing a BA? For example, is the Adv Studies (Honours) not equivalent to the standard commerce honours, is it just a new way of marketing honours (and not equivalent to BComm/BA) etc. From a quick glance at the website, it looks like either of those two things depending on what units you choose to pick.
To summarise my understanding of B X/B Adv Studies (e.g. for OP), it's a 4 year degree requiring two majors, and to choose one of the following options:
  • The coursework route: you have to take up some number of advanced (4000-level) courses as well as a couple of project units with academics.
  • The honours route: you have to take up some number of advanced (4000-level) courses and work on a thesis/project closely supervised by an academic during your final year.
If a student were to take the 'honours route', I agree with you that there is less flexibility. From the study plan examples from the USYD website, it seems that you can satisfy the 'coursework route' requirements with only 24 credit points (i.e. 2 4000-level units, 2 project units), so you have additional 24cp worth of electives. If a student takes the 'honours route', pretty much the entire 4th year of their B X/B Adv Studies degree would be the honours year. This would mean that a student intending to do honours should complete their intended majors and minors during their first 3 years.

It also seems it might be possible to do the coursework thread of Adv Studies (or an unrelated honours topic for Adv Studies (Honours)) and a standard Comm honours year, which would take the course back to 5 years but allow you to pursue whatever you wanted for Adv Studies (as with a BA)?
This is one of those things that can only be answered by contacting the faculty about the fineprint of their degree resolutions. My impression is that this is probably not possible since advanced studies is intended to be the honours year, but I have no idea here.

Regardless, I'm struggling to see the benefit of doing this (since a primary benefit of advanced studies is that it allows you to take up a second major from an external faculty), apart from extending one's honours degree by an additional year. And even then, half of that year would be dedicated to doing the core commerce units. (My general stance is that if a student can study commerce majors without doing a commerce degree, they should!)
 

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