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Muhammad Cartoon Controversy (1 Viewer)

ihavenothing

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Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

The counter protests need to take a more proactive stance whilst the violence and threatening rhetoric on the other side are getting out of hand.

SupportDenmark.com should supply merchandise such as bumper stickers and posters because now the Muslims think they will bully their way into destroying democracy.
 

davin

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Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

sooo...peaceful protests include burning embassies now. good to know.
Originally Posted by Simpson Freak
What type of freedom do we have, if i will get labelled as terrorist simply because of some newspaper cartoon.
This won't label anyone as a terrorist. Now, if several islamic countries weren't activly supporting terrorism.....theres no chance that that would effect it, would it?
 

banco55

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Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

Wow they really do hate our freedom:

Two Jordanian newspaper editors who published cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad have been arrested. Jihad Momani and Hisham Khalidi are accused of insulting religion under Jordan's press and publications law.
Mr Momani was fired from the weekly Shihan after reproducing the cartoons - originally printed in Denmark - which have caused a global storm of protest.
One of the cartoons depicts Muhammad as a terrorist. Any images of the Prophet are banned under Islamic tradition.
'Abuse of freedom'
Mr Momani's arrest came earlier on Saturday, a day after Jordanian King Abdullah condemned the cartoons as an unnecessary abuse of freedom of speech.
Mr Momani's paper, Shihan, had printed three of the cartoons, alongside an editorial questioning whether the angry reaction to them in the Muslim world was justified.
"Muslims of the world be reasonable," wrote Mr Momani.
"What brings more prejudice against Islam, these caricatures or pictures of a hostage-taker slashing the throat of his victim in front of the cameras or a suicide bomber who blows himself up during a wedding ceremony in Amman?"
Mr Khalidi, whose al-Mehwar newspaper had also reprinted the cartoons, was detained late on Saturday. Al-Mehwar had reproduced the cartoons over a week ago to accompany an article on the condemnation they had sparked.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4680948.stm
 

banco55

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Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

A good idea:

"all immigrants should be required to sign a declaration supporting the right of free speech, even blasphemous speech, as a condition of entering the West."

http://time.blogs.com/daily_dish/
 
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Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

banco55 said:
A good idea:

"all immigrants should be required to sign a declaration supporting the right of free speech, even blasphemous speech, as a condition of entering the West."

http://time.blogs.com/daily_dish/

thats very unfair. Do western people (cowboys as i say) totally suuport the right of blasphemous speech, they do not. People sue for defermation of name. The media just cant publish anything they want, but i guess when it comes to insulting muslims, the west uses free speech as an exuse.
 

davin

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Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

feel like sourcing where someone has sued for defamation of a religious figure in the west and won?

they could take this to court, and they did try. but it requires damage of some fashion beyond hurt feelings
 
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garbagedump

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Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

MoonlightSonata, did you read what you posted?
". You are allowed to offend people.

2. Defamation requires the person defamed to be alive. Muhammad is dead."

SimpsonFreak never said it was illegal, rather he suggests that it is wrong and should be frowned upon. For example verbal racism is not illegal however it is not tolerated. Verbal abuses are not illegal, yet in some parts of countries and in many sports you can be fined for this. Defamation is illegal, however in no part of Simpson Freak's posts did he suggest that freedom of speech is illegal, rather he suggests it should be censored at times. Moonlightsonta, in light of your short replies, they are indeed that. You seem to be making a large assumption, that Simpson Freak thinks it is illegal, to rebutt.

"1. That is unreasonable, logically. Drawing a picture of someone is reasonable.

2. That is not analogous with the present case. This is a religion, not a race."

This really doesn't make any sense. If that is unreasonable, then the Danish newspaper cartoon is also unreasonable, as it gives a false view of the muslim people. Analogies do not have to be exactly the same. Of course this is religion not a race, but it also questions the freedom of speech.

"It depends on what kind of political statement they are trying to make. It may be incorrect, but then it is just a silly cartoon. Doesn't mean it should be restricted." Of course it depends on the kind of politcal statement they are trying to make, but it is blatant that it is against muslims and portrays them as terrorists. However if you think it is a "silly cartoon", then why has it caused so much violence and hatred by muslims? If it is such a silly cartoon, why shouldn't it be restricted to prevent riots and anger from many muslims.

"Not true. If Christian groups were outraged at a picture I drew of Jesus then personally I'd give them the free-speech finger as well." Of course you wouldn't because you appear to be not a religious person("This is also why I have such disdain for religion"), as a result you do not have a high regard for it.
"You wouldn't be villifying Christians. You'd be satirising or criticising the practices of a religion. There's a difference." Actually the definition for vilify is spread negative information, and that is EXACTLY what it will be doing, just as this portrayal of the muslim people.

"He was criticised for discriminating against a gay person. This is not the same at all. It is criticism of a religion - a belief, not the natural state of a human being." This is correct. However the cartoon is also criticising the muslim people, suggesting that they are simply terrorists. Most muslims are non-terrorsts. So is it right to call a muslim a "terrorist" if he is not, but wrong to call a gay guy "a pansy" when in fact he may be so?


"You are right, it is important to consider the practical issues of global relationships here. (This is also why I have such disdain for religion - it is the cause of so much stupidity.)" Then why are you against the restriction of this particular cartoon, if it will prevent such violence?

"People aren't going to do that. If they are then they are just foolish or ignorant." This is stupid, what are you trying to say? Of course people will do that, because they are foolish and ignorant, and . People will also cause illegal acts of terroism because they are foolish and ignorant. Why then shouldn't mulim terrorism ideas be restricted?

"That is not even a remotely coherent analogy." Actually it is a coherent analogy. They are both hiding behind a principle (freedom of speech or anti-terroism) to justify their actions.
It seems that you are assuming that SimpsonFreak thinks that it is illegal. However it is not. He merely suggests that we should restrict such portrayals. You are using assumptions to back your arguments. Like Mary Mcalesse says, there should be certain restrictions to freedom of speech. MOons... is another user who is simply pro-freedom of speech without neccessarily looking at the consequences. What would happen if crosses were burnt on africn-american turf, the nazis allowed to march through jewish villages. Of course this is freedom of speech, however it causes such psychological terror and anger.
 
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davin

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Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

it is, however, directly attacking free speech when you say that censorship should be from gov't sources, which is the message when you push for retribution against the Danish gov't of any fashion. Again why it should be limited to the PAPER so that they don't see reason to publish them. If it will hurt them economically, that is, if they will lose sales of their paper or lose advertisers, then they probably won't publish something. Thats why some offensive things don't get printed...because then the paper would lose support.
 
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Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

The reaction to the cartoons has been grossly hypocritical, disproportionate and misguided. As has been stated throughout this thread, it was another perfectly legal and uncommon instance of satirical humour at a particular religion's expense. Secular democracy brings freedom of speech and expression, just like it brings freedom of religion. Those who have been reacting to this with violence, victim mentality and hatred reflect so badly on the Muslim religion that while I don't agree with it, I'm not surprised at the prejudice they encounter.

garbagedump - The cartoons caused 'psychological terror and anger' to some members of the Muslim community who fail to recognise that a tolerant society works both ways, and that freedom of speech is part of a secular democracy. The cartoons are no more inherently offensive than all the cited examples of challenging Christianity and Judaism. There are very few instances under which I find censorship legitimate, and this isn't one of them. No one else is responsible for how these people are reacting.
 
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SashatheMan

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Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

muslims get angry that muhammad is depicted like a terrorist, but then act like terrorists, running around burning things, threatening lives and spreading violence.
 

banco55

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Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

codereder said:
thats very unfair. Do western people (cowboys as i say) totally suuport the right of blasphemous speech, they do not. People sue for defermation of name. The media just cant publish anything they want, but i guess when it comes to insulting muslims, the west uses free speech as an exuse.
If muslims don't want to abide by western values they shouldn't come to western countries.
 

Optophobia

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Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

SashatheMan said:
muslims get angry that muhammad is depicted like a terrorist, but then act like terrorists, running around burning things, threatening lives and spreading violence.
excellent point.
 

garbagedump

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Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

Aussies get angry when lebs bash people up....aussies then create their own violence with rocks and glass bottles....HA. the monkey see monkey do priciple here
 

davin

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Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

i think you missed the point, that wasn't widespread protests, branching into buildings being attacked and protests demanding murder
 

ihavenothing

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Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

banco55 said:
If muslims don't want to abide by western values they shouldn't come to western countries.
I agree strongly with this as in most cases this is not a two way street with many Muslim countries force their values upon its non-muslim minorities. I would like to see what excuse they have in this situation.
 

davin

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Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

Lebanon seems to be a hot topic, but this deserves mention:
Lebanese Grand Mufti Mohammed Rashid Kabbani denounced the violence, saying there were infiltrators among the protesters trying to "harm the stability of Lebanon." Speaking on Future TV, he appealed for calm and said there were some who were trying to exploit the protests to cause trouble and "distort the image of Islam."
Lebanon's Prime Minister Fuad Saniora also urged calm.
"Those who are committing these acts have nothing to do with Islam or with Lebanon," said Prime Minister Fuad Saniora. "This is absolutely not the way we express our opinions."
Saniora suggested some in Lebanon may have been inspired by what happened in Syria. "It is as if (the Syrian protests) were a lesson to some in Lebanon to do the same," he told Future TV.

The trouble in Lebanon threatened to take a sectarian spin as protesters stoned the nearby St. Maroun Church, one of the city's main Maronite Catholic churches, and private property in Ashrafieh, a Christian area near Beirut's commercial district. Muslim clerics were seen trying to stop the protesters.
from an article off AP, from what that says, looks like some leaders are behaving rational, but i've not heard any otehr quotes or anything from them
 

Simpson Freak

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Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

SashatheMan said:
muslims get angry that muhammad is depicted like a terrorist, but then act like terrorists, running around burning things, threatening lives and spreading violence.
or to put it another way, a dannish cartoon effectively labels every muslim as a terrorist, and they are then shocked to see them act like terrorists
 

Simpson Freak

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Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

davin said:
Lebanon seems to be a hot topic, but this deserves mention:


from an article off AP, from what that says, looks like some leaders are behaving rational, but i've not heard any otehr quotes or anything from them
Maybe you should look harder, i found heaps, and had posted them up yesterday.

The Muslim leader in Denmark said that any violence will only hurt islam.

and i saw on SBS that there were protests by muslims who were angry at the violent protests by radicals the previous day, claiming that they are not part of Islam
 

garbagedump

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Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

or aussies see lebs fighting some lifesavers, then the aussies go starting a riot and attacking people. yeah the monkey see monkey do principle
 

Simpson Freak

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Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

I dont know why so many people are trying to twist this into a battle for free speech. its not free speech when you villify a billion people.

the newspaper was about to release cartoons of mohammad as a pig, but then at the last step decided not to. its obvious that their intentions were of provocation. i mean a picture of a man as a pig isnt the enigma of the century, its just senseless...."o look muslims dont eat pig, wouldnt be a nice political message if we dress up mohammad as one...hahaha"...i guess they decided for a more subtle provocation

and now after such irresponsible actions, they are trying to wash their hands from what they did by simply yelling "free speech".....no different when George Bush says "9/11" or "Bin Laden" to justify spying on its own citizens.....and similarly to John Howard staying in power in last election by saying "interest rates" to scare the new home buyers...

this isnt anything new, and i dont know why so many are getting sucked in.

on the other hand, the cartoonist could have simply been ignorant,

this is not just a simple debate over free speech, many western leaders have condemed the actions of the newspaper for publishing something that is offensive.

however i do not at all support the violent protests by many around the world, but just because the Dannish Newspaper is the lesser of 2 evils, it should not be portrayed as an angel fighting for freedom like our forefathers and blah blah blah blah..
 
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