Muslim People in Australia (2 Viewers)

[HotShot]

Each person? you mean a man can't refuse a woman if she wants sex? Or does this expectation to adhere to a spouses' sexual demands only fall upon the woman's shoulders?

What constitutes a "stupid reason" and what doesn't? If a woman doesn't feel like sex at any particular time, for whatever reason, then surely she shouldn't be pressured into having it, married or not. That's harrassment. It teeters too close to rape for my liking.

A healthy marriage involves sex when both partners are wanting and willing.

this is a wasted topic, if you trying to show that muslim women everyday are getting raped by their husbands- then you are completely wrong.
if you are trying to show that muslim marriage relationships are unhealthy- then you are wrong.

consider the western world culture invovled in marriages, a man/women would probably go through about 3 different marriages to different people. thats an unhealthy relationship. women are single and still manage to ruin relationships though affairs with men who are married etc.

Trust me it worse in the western world, especially in christanity, islam is quite 'decent' with its marriage laws at least they have some.

 

[Lundy]

So is remaining in a marriage in which you are unhappy and unfulfilled considered healthy by comparison?

 

[HotShot]

So is remaining in a marriage in which you are unhappy and unfulfilled considered healthy by comparison?

thats the thing, islamic law ensures that the marriage is fulfilled and there is happy relationship between wife and husband. You dont see many muslims divorcing (there are few) as much as westerners?

also remember the male is allowed to have up to 5 wives, allowing the marriage to be fulfilled. (ONE FOR EACH DAY?)

 

[Generator]

consider the western world culture invovled in marriages, a man/women would probably go through about 3 different marriages to different people. thats an unhealthy relationship. women are single and still manage to ruin relationships though affairs with men who are married etc.

Two things -

What's unhealthy about ending a relationship when it is clear that it is no longer worth the effort?
In the case of an affair between a married person/person in a long term relationship and a single person, it's the person in the relationship who strays - they ruin the relationship. Sure, it takes two to tango, but there's nothing to be gained by blaming the single other ( in this case it's the 'temptress' (surprise, surprise )) when they aren't the one straying from a commitment.

 

[Lundy]

thats the thing, islamic law ensures that the marriage is fulfilled and there is happy relationship between wife and husband. You dont see many muslims divorcing (there are few) as much as westerners?

also remember the male is allowed to have up to 5 wives, allowing the marriage to be fulfilled. (ONE FOR EACH DAY?)

There's the issue of sexual and emotional compatibility to consider. The law can't make a marriage work. You can't just throw two people together, tell them to be nice to each other and have sex every 3 days and then expect them to fall in love. I'm sure there are some who genuinely are, but it still seems unrealistic to me. Feelings are not stagnant (this is why people, you know, break up). Marriages fail for a multitude of reasons. That's why it's healthier for both partners to dissolve a marriage that has proven unworkable.

Please correct me if I'm wrong (I'm just a silly ignorant christian here), but I was under the impression that in islam it is much more difficult for the woman to initiate divorce than the man. So there may be women out there who are dissatifsfied but are largely helpless to do anything about it. It's a far cry to say 'look, we have fewer divorces...that means everyone is happy!'

A man is able to have up to 5 wives? that's fantastic!....for him

 

[xeuyrawp]

islam is quite 'decent' with its marriage laws at least they have
some.

Look, you people are messing up on your arguments.

You have to argue either:

1) Islamic people abide by Koran rules,
2) Islamic people don't abide by Koran rules.

Please clarify which you are arguing before we continue, because if you are arguing 1), you're admitting to treating women as sub-par.

 

[Lundy]

Two things -

What's unhealthy about ending a relationship when it is clear that it is no longer worth the effort?
In the case of an affair between a married person/person in a long term relationship and a single person, it's the person in the relationship who strays - they ruin the relationship. Sure, it takes two to tango, but there's nothing to be gained by blaming the single other ( in this case it's the 'temptress' (surprise, surprise )) when they aren't the one straying from a commitment.

And in most cases sexual infidelity is a result of marital problems, not a cause of them.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

They will claim they are following the koran and when we post up our own interpretations (or copies of interpretations done by islamic scholars even) they will claim that this interpretation is not correct. They will never give us an interpretation set in stone because then it can actually be attacked, that is why they follow the book and claim it never changes but it is obvious by the huge discrepancy between the words in the book and their interpretation of it that it has obviously changed (either during their own differing interpretations, or earlier down the line). As a person who studies history I am sure you are aware PwarYuex of the way in which what now appears to be much more factual through scientific techniques conflicts with many ancient texts, basically what I am saying is that facts are distorted over time.

They will claim that there is no way that the koran has ever changed, however with the next breath claim that new breath has been given to the koran through revelation of some islamic scholar...

 

[xeuyrawp]

As a person who studies history I am sure you are aware PwarYuex of the way in which what now appears to be much more factual through scientific techniques conflicts with many ancient texts, basically what I am saying is that facts are distorted over time.

Ohhhh man. Would I ***LOVE*** to yank out the holy artefacts of Mecca (the Black Stone and the black building that people walk around) and take them to be scientifically analysed.

Now that would be history!

 

[Sonic]

They will claim they are following the koran and when we post up our own interpretations (or copies of interpretations done by islamic scholars even) they will claim that this interpretation is not correct.

yes the quran does not change and neevr will but the interpretations can change and have over the years... just like there is not one interpretation for christian texts simillarly there is not ONE standard interpretation for islam and the quran

 

[xeuyrawp]

there is not ONE standard interpretation for islam and the quran

Really, interpretation can only get you so far from words like 'beat'...

 

[Sonic]

Ohhhh man. Would I ***LOVE*** to yank out the holy artefacts of Mecca (the Black Stone and the black building that people walk around) and take them to be scientifically analysed.

Now that would be history!

yes that would be history IF you were able to get past all those muslims and then carry the stone out... WITHOUT GETTING KILLED. goodluck brother

 

[Sonic]

Really, interpretation can only get you so far from words like 'beat'...

beat can mean literally, metaphorically, menatally the meanings can vary heaps.. and the whole KORAN does not hinder on one word. all you all do is take words and phrases out of context and try and use them to explain yourselves.. when we present the whole story you deny and move on to some thing else it always happens

 

[withoutaface]

yes that would be history IF you were able to get past all those muslims and then carry the stone out... WITHOUT GETTING KILLED. goodluck brother

I'm sure we could pursuade George Dubya it was a good idea and have a few regiments of marines dropped in by 1000 aircraft.

 

[Sonic]

I'm sure we could pursuade George Dubya it was a good idea and have a few regiments of marines dropped in by 1000 aircraft.

hehe probably already has a plan.. what do you think all those forces in SA are for???

 

[withoutaface]

So they can be prepared to combat threats to american interests in the middle east.

 

[veterandoggy]

also remember the male is allowed to have up to 5 wives, allowing the marriage to be fulfilled. (ONE FOR EACH DAY?)

hotshot, it is hard enough for us supporting the notion that we can have 4 wives, so we dont need people allowing us to have another one. one for each day huh? of course that would be a reason why we are allowed to have 5 (which is in fact 4 for your information.).

 

[xeuyrawp]

yes that would be history IF you were able to get past all those muslims and then carry the stone out... WITHOUT GETTING KILLED. goodluck brother

Hey, it's impossible for pretty girls like my stepsister to go out without getting raped ... Good luck to them.

beat can mean literally, metaphorically, menatally the meanings can vary heaps..

The words applied to what you can do to women (translated as 'beat') are clearly understood as negative words -- beating a woman literally, metaphorically, or mentally shows what a disgusting group of people you are.

and the whole KORAN does not hinder on one word. all you all do is take words and phrases out of context and try and use them to explain yourselves..

The words are not out of context, if you look up, I clearly quoted entire sections.

when we present the whole story you deny and move on to some thing else it always happens

I love it... Just like you say 'well we're abiding by our laws', but then move on to some other silly statement like 'and the whole koran doesn't hinder on one word'?

Anyway, this is fruitless.

When it is realised that the koran is as dangerous as any Anarchist's Cookbook it will, along with anyone caught practicing it (ie, breaking our laws) be burnt and banned. Yes the Bible is potentially as dangerous -- but the operating word is 'potentially'. You people are just thugs; Christians are just weak hypocrites. Personally, I prefer a Christian who abides by only some of Christ's teaching over a Muslim who rapes and degrades society.

 

[veterandoggy]

Personally, I prefer a Christian who abides by only some of Christ's teaching over a Muslim who rapes and degrades society.

you mean, you prefer a christian who is a hypocrite over a muslim who is not really a muslim at all, which is in effect another hypocrite.

 

[xeuyrawp]

you mean, you prefer a christian who is a hypocrite over a muslim who is not really a muslim at all, which is in effect another hypocrite.

No, I mean I prefer a Christian hypocrite over a Koran-abiding Muslim.

I love this photo; a Muslim dressed in white as to say 'we're equal', yet wearing a hugely expensive watch (or a fake [vein] copy)... The Mecca, holy capital of the world, surrounded by huge, expensive, Western hotels as if to say 'Come to Mecca, first class!'

I thought the point of the hadj was to learn humility, not wear expensive jewellery and stay in ultra-comfortable rooms... I wonder if he gives his annual 2.5% to charity. Do you, veterandoggy?