Muslim People in Australia (9 Viewers)

[katie_tully]

Alas. The biggest crock I find with Christianity, is Noahs Ark.

Basically they're saying that anything before Noahs Ark was obliterated, and that all civilisations we have now are a result of AFTER the flood.
That's saying that carbon 12 and 14 dating is a load of crap, which effectively is calling themselves a load of crap considering they're made of that very same isotope.

Science will always win. Always.

 

[davin]

Somebody mentioned parallax. I recently did parallax, and some early measurements for interplanetary distances.

Eratosthenes was actually the first person to estimate the circumference of the earth, somewhere between 276-196 BC.
He suggested that the Earth was spherical, and that because the sun is so far away the sun rays are parallel to each other.
He also noted that at midday, the rays do not cast a shadow when a stick is put vertically into the ground.
Basically he measured the circumference as 46,000 km, which is actually quite closer (41,000 km).

Parallax is when a near object is measured against a background of much more remote objects. Measurements are taken at 6 month intervals and the near object will change its position relative to tbe backdrop.
It's actually quite accurate for stars that a nearer to the earth, but if memory serves me correct it starts to get a 20% error rate after about 8 light years...

AND it's also a misconception that people thought the earth was flat, and the centre of the universe. Astronomers and mathematicians had hypothesised that the earth orbited the sun. It was generally the common man that had no expertise that spread this rumour.

actually, one of the big reasons why heliocentric views didn't take hold was because they figured taht if the earth was orbiting the sun, there would be a parallax in the stars. so they were off a bit on how close the stars were.....i think about a factor of 2 or 3 would've meant that there would've been observable parallaxes on at least some of the closest stars.

Proof that religion is more powerful;
People sacrificing their lives for religion (goes against human nature)
Abstaining from food for religion (goes against human nature)
Abstaining from sex for religion (Monks and Priests... And other religious people)
People committing suicide because of shame (which is caused by the effect of religion)

but, isn't it willpower that causes people to do those things?
heck, i know people that have sacrificed or risked their lives for non-religious beliefs, and i've had periods of abstaining from food for non-religious reasons.
its will power that lets people do that...the motivation is whats different.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

The thing is... I'm not claiming that religion isn't a powerful thing (if it wasn't why would I care ? ), I'm just saying that man kind is more powerful.

 

[veterandoggy]

well obviously man kind is using religions power along with other powers, so they should be stronger in accordance to the power we see.

 

[HotShot]

Re: HotShot
I agree with you on some things... but you're expecting too much... small steps...
Understanding is important... i agree with that... but if we agree with what your saying then should saudis be taught christianity? or chinese people be taught hinduism? Slow steps bro... slow steps.

hmm, i am not saying they should be taught christanity or hindusim or other religions, but they shouldnt be ignorant of it.

I am not suggesting that christanity should be 'taught' rather it shouldnt be ignored. that people should be aware that this religons exists and understand a few important principles that it follows. like going to church on sunday, that will help society.

 

[Zayd]

I am not suggesting that christanity should be 'taught' rather it shouldnt be ignored. that people should be aware that this religons exists and understand a few important principles that it follows. like going to church on sunday, that will help society.

It's obligatory for a muslim to study other religions. And the best way of doing so is going to authentic sources such as the bible for christanity. Going to the church wouldnt be the best approach to learn about Christianity. You have to understand what the religion actually teaches its followers. Unfortunately the majority of people following any religion today, are not the best of role models, so i guess going through the bible is more efficeint than asking ordinary christians.

And yes, if you dont understand some text in the bible, then u go to practising christians (more than one), and ask for clarification.

 

[Captain Gh3y]

Alas. The biggest crock I find with Christianity, is Noahs Ark.

Basically they're saying that anything before Noahs Ark was obliterated, and that all civilisations we have now are a result of AFTER the flood.
That's saying that carbon 12 and 14 dating is a load of crap, which effectively is calling themselves a load of crap considering they're made of that very same isotope.

Yeah, I for one don't believe the Noah's Ark story actually occured. Perhaps it was a metaphor for something, or an old Jewish myth, or... either way, it doesn't matter much.

Science will always win. Always.

That sounds like faith

 

[Salima]

Originally Posted by katie_tully
Alas. The biggest crock I find with Christianity, is Noahs Ark.

Basically they're saying that anything before Noahs Ark was obliterated, and that all civilisations we have now are a result of AFTER the flood.
That's saying that carbon 12 and 14 dating is a load of crap, which effectively is calling themselves a load of crap considering they're made of that very same isotope.

Yeah, I for one don't believe the Noah's Ark story actually occured. Perhaps it was a metaphor for something, or an old Jewish myth, or... either way, it doesn't matter much.

Well I can tell you and Katie that in the Qur'an those bible stories are reaffirmed. Have you studied about carbon dating? It is used in combination with other dating techniques becuase it is difficult to use it to get a precise date. The halflife is baout 5,600yrs. The world adn humans are a lot older than that. Qur'an says other poeple and civilisations were destroyed, adn even that the great flood occured. But if you believe in a god, and a god being all-powerful you know, anything is possible. A god can destroy and create what he wishes. The flood of the Noah's Ark story would have happened a lot longer than 5,600yrs ago for sure! Just look at Mesopotamia, a create civilisation, the craddle of civilisation! Had writting for all way before any other civilisation in the world. Baghdad has always been the centre of the world it seems...:giddy:

Originally Posted by katie
Science will always win. Always.

Islam and science goes hand in hand, science is int he Qur'an. This is why I repeat that faith, science and logic can all be friends. I say htis becuase Islam promotes this...and how? and why?, becuase the Qur'an and says of the prophet (pbuh) say things that find this to be true.

 

[Salima]

It's obligatory for a muslim to study other religions. And the best way of doing so is going to authentic sources such as the bible for christanity. Going to the church wouldnt be the best approach to learn about Christianity. You have to understand what the religion actually teaches its followers. Unfortunately the majority of people following any religion today, are not the best of role models, so i guess going through the bible is more efficeint than asking ordinary christians.

And yes, if you dont understand some text in the bible, then u go to practising christians (more than one), and ask for clarification.

Good point said...all should know htis..but all should understadn thier own religion and beliefs, adn philosphy on life before going and studying ohters.

I'm just saying that man kind is more powerful.

By the way, mankind is more powerful than what? who?

 

[veterandoggy]

hmm, its good to see new scientific proofs strengthening our point constantly showing here. at least this thread looks like it will have new stuff every now and then.

those reads are interesting, although i think alot of those links are for muslims, where they already accept that there is one god and that the quran is the true book of Allah.

 

[Captain Gh3y]

Stop doing that. The fact that none of this science arose from the Koran in the first place proves you are changing your beliefs to suit the facts as they are discovered, hence the Koran is not absolutely true.

 

[NoOb_ceNtRAL]

Stop doing that. The fact that none of this science arose from the Koran in the first place proves you are changing your beliefs to suit the facts as they are discovered, hence the Koran is not absolutely true.

ahahahhaaha
buddy when do u think a lot of the scientific discoveries in the koran were made? ull c a lot of them r in recent times (in the last 500 yrs)
the koran had these included before. so no beliefs are changed.

u might be thinking why then is it that these discoveries were made by europe later when it had already been stated in the koran? ignorance? that seems to happen a lot. or mabye it did, i dunno. generalising, history is in the hands of its writers. (now ppl r gonna think im sayin the europeans copied scientific discoveries from the muslims. i didnt imply that, so dont start goin crazy)

 

[banco55]

Science that all Atheists believe in prove Islam correct. Here are some links to reinforce what I said.

http://www.themodernreligion.com/verses_sci.htm

http://www.bensys.mcmail.com/Islam.htm

Here are some points.

[SIZE=-1]Al-Anaam (6:125): Those whom God (in His plan) willeth to guide,- He openeth their breast to Islam; those whom He willeth to leave straying,- He maketh their breast close and constricted, as if they had to climb up to the skies: thus doth God (heap) the penalty on those who refuse to believe.[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]A possible reason why Allah chose to say 'as if they had to climb up the skies' is revealed by science. As you go up to the mountain or a higher place the rate of oxygen decreases, causing difficulty in breathing. Mountain climbers carry oxygen tanks in order to get sufficient oxygen. This fact can be found in God's 1400 year old book

Another one

[/SIZE]A Canadian scientist had converted to islam after reading about the fallowing verses in the Quran.

Common sense dectates that when you envelope an object by placing it inside a containment , it becomes relatively dark inside the containment, then if this contained object is placed further inside two more layers it will become even more dark inside.
In the name of Allah most gracious most merciful:
He creataed you in the wombes of your mothers ,creation after creation, in a three fold darkness.
REFERENCE: Chapter "The Troops" verse "6".
surah " XXXIX " part of verse "6".


There are alot more of these in the links I gave above.


[SIZE=-1]

[/SIZE]

Most of those examples are pretty pathetic. It's like people who read nostradamus and think he predicted all sorts of stuff or people who read astrology and think it fits their life. Take the mountain one for example: it would obvious to anyone who's done any walking up mountains that one gets short of breath.

 

[SashatheMan]

Most of those examples are pretty pathetic. It's like people who read nostradamus and think he predicted all sorts of stuff or people who read astrology and think it fits their life. Take the mountain one for example: it would obvious to anyone who's done any walking up mountains that one gets short of breath.

exactly right

 

[Not-That-Bright]

hmm, its good to see new scientific proofs strengthening our point constantly showing here. at least this thread looks like it will have new stuff every now and then.

Why do you just ignore the point I've raised 100 times that these proofs are ALWAYS after the fact? Do you actually have a rubuttle to it?

ahahahhaaha
buddy when do u think a lot of the scientific discoveries in the koran were made? ull c a lot of them r in recent times (in the last 500 yrs)
the koran had these included before. so no beliefs are changed.

u might be thinking why then is it that these discoveries were made by europe later when it had already been stated in the koran? ignorance? that seems to happen a lot. or mabye it did, i dunno. generalising, history is in the hands of its writers. (now ppl r gonna think im sayin the europeans copied scientific discoveries from the muslims. i didnt imply that, so dont start goin crazy)

You didn't get his point... all the predictions of the koran, all the scientific fact, is discovered AFTER someone else points it out. No one ever looks to the koran, reads something, then makes some scientific breakthrough based on that reading.

 

[sam04u]

This thread should have died... days ago....

Okay....
The Qur'an "promotes" science; we get that now.

The references to scientific principles in the Qur'an are vague; except those on meteorology; big bang theory; evolution and embryology.
The rest is sort of unclear... maybe because of the times? most of the words we have now are new; it would have been difficult explaining such things at that time.

Either way it is a miracle and can be used to give faith to muslims; but not a way to prove it to be of other faiths.

I think most people already know by now that islam believes in all faiths; in a sense.

In the Qur'an it sais all those who are pure of heart will find islam; so theres no use in preaching; our religion doesn't ask us to preach our religion; except to those who are willing to learn. This thread could be though as a plea to learn; but we are in modern times there is infinite ammounts of resources to those who want to learn. Eg; (www.islam.com)

Re: Banco

I provided some pretty amazing verses that are directle taken from the Qur'an a few pages ago. Keep in mind words like "space" and "universe" weren't in existance. (The qur'an does have many scientific references; some vague; some insanely accurate; look into the embryology and meteorolgy.

Re: Captain Gh3y

Yup i agree;
But i believe he is reaffirming his faith; its fair for him to do so. The Qur'an is it's own proof.

Re: Salima

Maybe the answers to "the philosophy of life" are in these books and teachings; A true muslim studies islam; and the people of all different religions; then looks into the religions; then looks at science.

The answers to life are constantly being explained; The truth is no one knows.
The Qur'an doesn't even fully explain... However the intriguing thing is the qur'an supports the big bang theory; which is re-assuring because there would be no other way for a muslim to explain such things as the universe explanding.

(go back a few pages for the quotes i provided if you're unsure)

Either way; we know that the universe was once in a big heap; and exploded or was ripped apart (lots of energy).
We also know that there was little friction as the universe expands consistantly; meaning there was no physical matter in its path.

And on the last days; Something will happen
Which will compel those who are pure of islam. (perhaps a war?)

However some things suggest were close to this;
Including the prediction that the jewish people will control Israel; (which was initially palestine);

Either way; i noticed the deeper you go into these questions; the colder it becomes.... with less answers.
It seems the only way man will reach the answers and understand them fully is by taking "slow", "steady" steps. So the ideas are more logical and factually based.

So far though; there is no contradictions of science with islam.
So i'm happy about that.
I can follow it without contradicting Islam

 

[davin]

Either way; we know that the universe was once in a big heap; and exploded or was ripped apart (lots of energy).
We also know that there was little friction as the universe expands consistantly; meaning there was no physical matter in its path.

um, the second part of taht isn't true, because that implies that the universe's expansion is caused by elements of the universe moving through space, when the cause is the universe itself expanding....space itself expanding, so things are moving away because the space between one another expanded rather than either object having a velocity, per se.

Stop doing that. The fact that none of this science arose from the Koran in the first place proves you are changing your beliefs to suit the facts as they are discovered, hence the Koran is not absolutely true.

totally agree. i've seen nothing to indicate that these passages were read as scientific fact before science itself proved the claim. its not seemed to have predicted any science, just been interpretted later. I think banco was right in comparing it to Nostradamous again.

 

[Zayd]

-You didn't get his point... all the predictions of the koran, all the scientific fact, is discovered AFTER someone else points it out. No one ever looks to the koran, reads something, then makes some scientific breakthrough based on that reading.

That's irrelevant .........the fact is that the Quran mentions it, which was revealed more than 1400 years. Scientists have no other option but to agree.

 

[davin]

That's irrelevant .........the fact is that the Quran mentions it, which was revealed more than 1400 years. Scientists have no other option but to agree.

its not irrelevant. the point Not-That-Bright is making is that rather than these things having been treated as fact to begin with, but that the passages have been interpretted to agree with science after the fact. Spinning things to fit the current facts by claiming that there is some interpretation that matches science.

 

[HotShot]

its not irrelevant. the point Not-That-Bright is making is that rather than these things having been treated as fact to begin with, but that the passages have been interpretted to agree with science after the fact. Spinning things to fit the current facts by claiming that there is some interpretation that matches science.

u do realise, it is difficult to prove those scientific discoveries 1400 years ago. So obviously the passages will 'interpreted' to agree with science. so this does not necessarily mean that the koran wasnt rite about science, it still was. it wasnt possible to prove it before.