Mrs.McDreamy
stalker inc. president
Re: Russia: Some Historiography and sources for you to quote from
hey this is awesome! thanks!
hey this is awesome! thanks!
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National Studies HISTORIOGRAPHY (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter braindrainedAsh
- Start date
Kezalicious
Member
"The fight for the minds of youth starts in the cradle." -Hitler Youth
Stephen Roberts professor of History at the University of Sydney
"Japan sought to gain Southeast Asia's resources and the United States sought to protects its access to them." -Conflict in the Pacific
Historian David Shannon saw the roots of conflice though econmic rivalry
I see no reason for quotes to be long, plus I retain knowledge a short time haha.
Stephen Roberts professor of History at the University of Sydney
"Japan sought to gain Southeast Asia's resources and the United States sought to protects its access to them." -Conflict in the Pacific
Historian David Shannon saw the roots of conflice though econmic rivalry
I see no reason for quotes to be long, plus I retain knowledge a short time haha.
Re: Germany Historiography- not asking, giving.
Direct quotes from people can be used as a support for your argument and therefore the term historiography, although technically probably incorrect isn't totally inappropriate. Then again as the definition of historiography is 'the body of literature dealing with historical matters' it is possible to argue that direct quotes from people from the time qualify as part of the 'body of literature'.
Maybe the heading should be quotes to use in your essays rather than historiography. Either way this list is excellent and I will be directing my students here tomorrow so they will have this list.
As an HSC marker I would suggest that you don't look a gift horse in the mouth over the terminology being used.
-pari- said:
Direct quotes from people can be used as a support for your argument and therefore the term historiography, although technically probably incorrect isn't totally inappropriate. Then again as the definition of historiography is 'the body of literature dealing with historical matters' it is possible to argue that direct quotes from people from the time qualify as part of the 'body of literature'.
Maybe the heading should be quotes to use in your essays rather than historiography. Either way this list is excellent and I will be directing my students here tomorrow so they will have this list.
As an HSC marker I would suggest that you don't look a gift horse in the mouth over the terminology being used.
Last edited:
nicole21290
Member
Re: Germany Historiography- not asking, giving.
Thankyou very much for this - it is extremely helpful.
Thankyou very much for this - it is extremely helpful.
Delta One
New Member
Re: makin up historians??
*************STUPID STUPID STUPID*********************
VERY BAD IDEA, the teachers/ markers, know the historians relating to the topic and know what they say, If u make up a qote using stressman, the marker will be like "ah he doesnt say that in fact he supports blah blah balh...this person doesnt know what they r talking about 5/20"
*************STUPID STUPID STUPID*********************
VERY BAD IDEA, the teachers/ markers, know the historians relating to the topic and know what they say, If u make up a qote using stressman, the marker will be like "ah he doesnt say that in fact he supports blah blah balh...this person doesnt know what they r talking about 5/20"
Re: makin up historians??
Yes i do it, i have a vague idea on what values/ideas that certain historian stands for and then put a quote in my essay, and a do a few legit ones aswell works a treat(in exams). Although, i will actually get some more legit quotes for my HSC.
Yes i do it, i have a vague idea on what values/ideas that certain historian stands for and then put a quote in my essay, and a do a few legit ones aswell works a treat(in exams). Although, i will actually get some more legit quotes for my HSC.
-pari-
Active Member
Re: makin up historians??
uhhh if you mean completely making up historians - as is off the top of your head - dn't.
you either know them or you don't. teachers are NOT stupid - do realise that history teachers ARE historians themselves - especially hsc markers. they've know whats out there, they have a good idea of which historians exist which don't.
better to make a strong argument w/o a historian at all, than make one up and automatically disgrace yourself and your work.
but it's not a bad idea to know a few historians and their ideas and just kinda rewrite it in your own words - no need to memorise word for word...
uhhh if you mean completely making up historians - as is off the top of your head - dn't.
you either know them or you don't. teachers are NOT stupid - do realise that history teachers ARE historians themselves - especially hsc markers. they've know whats out there, they have a good idea of which historians exist which don't.
better to make a strong argument w/o a historian at all, than make one up and automatically disgrace yourself and your work.
but it's not a bad idea to know a few historians and their ideas and just kinda rewrite it in your own words - no need to memorise word for word...
Re: makin up historians??
As an HSC marker I will tell you now - don't make up historians.
If we are reading something and a 'new' historian is mentioned the first thing we will do is ask the other markers at our table if any of them have heard of this historian.
If no one has then we will certainly consider the probability of the student 'making up' an historian.
Stick to the tried and true names and don't worry about quoting. Knowing the actual ideas, points of view, of the historian is enough.
You can get full marks in Modern without mentioning by name any historian at all - if your work is argued properly then you will be able to show you knowledge and the research you have done from the different schools/perspectives etc by discussing those ideas without even mentioning the historians by name.
I have given full marks on more than one occasion to students who have not mentioned any historian by name.
What is worse is when students simply name historians without making them relevant to the argument being made. Those sorts of things really just get ignored - in other words if naming the historian and using their ideas directly isn't necessary for your argument don't waste you time.
You need to know the ideas and arguments of a few historians to support the argument you are making and that is all - e.g. if you want to argue that Hitler was totally responsible for WWII then naming the historians who say that is not a bad idea but you would need to counter that with the historians who oppose it - you can generalise though and say that 'historians argue about the degree of responsiblity that Hitler had with some saying he was totally responsible, while others apportion some of the blame elsewhere'. That would show the markers that you are aware of the arguments without having to 'make-up' historians or their quotes.
Remember that the markers are aware that these essays are a first draft essay, under exam conditions and done in 45 minutes. These are not research essays that you have weeks or even months to prepare.
As an HSC marker I will tell you now - don't make up historians.
If we are reading something and a 'new' historian is mentioned the first thing we will do is ask the other markers at our table if any of them have heard of this historian.
If no one has then we will certainly consider the probability of the student 'making up' an historian.
Stick to the tried and true names and don't worry about quoting. Knowing the actual ideas, points of view, of the historian is enough.
You can get full marks in Modern without mentioning by name any historian at all - if your work is argued properly then you will be able to show you knowledge and the research you have done from the different schools/perspectives etc by discussing those ideas without even mentioning the historians by name.
I have given full marks on more than one occasion to students who have not mentioned any historian by name.
What is worse is when students simply name historians without making them relevant to the argument being made. Those sorts of things really just get ignored - in other words if naming the historian and using their ideas directly isn't necessary for your argument don't waste you time.
You need to know the ideas and arguments of a few historians to support the argument you are making and that is all - e.g. if you want to argue that Hitler was totally responsible for WWII then naming the historians who say that is not a bad idea but you would need to counter that with the historians who oppose it - you can generalise though and say that 'historians argue about the degree of responsiblity that Hitler had with some saying he was totally responsible, while others apportion some of the blame elsewhere'. That would show the markers that you are aware of the arguments without having to 'make-up' historians or their quotes.
Remember that the markers are aware that these essays are a first draft essay, under exam conditions and done in 45 minutes. These are not research essays that you have weeks or even months to prepare.
ellen.louise
Member
Re: makin up historians??
Very true. There is nothing a marker hates more than a student trying to get around them this way. If they catch you at it (very likely) you gonna get a bad mark because they are going to KNOW you haven't done the research or the study. Sure, if you can't remember a quote properly, write what you think it was: they'll understand. But when you go around making up shit during the exam...
you'd be much better off just memorising the names of historians and quotes. You've got months until HSC exams: thus plenty of time to memorise details.
nwatts said:
Very true. There is nothing a marker hates more than a student trying to get around them this way. If they catch you at it (very likely) you gonna get a bad mark because they are going to KNOW you haven't done the research or the study. Sure, if you can't remember a quote properly, write what you think it was: they'll understand. But when you go around making up shit during the exam...
you'd be much better off just memorising the names of historians and quotes. You've got months until HSC exams: thus plenty of time to memorise details.
Re: makin up historians??
Point one - the quality is more important than the quantity but... if you aren't sure a good guide is:
WWI - you can get full marks using only the given pages but most of the top responses will write an extra page or so for each of the 10 mark questions.
Personalities - top marks needs about 4 pages for the describe section and about 6 for the second section
Essays (both National and Internationa Studies) you should be looking at 8 - 10 pages
The pages sizes I am referring to here are exam booklet pages remember.
These are a guide only and are assuming average size handwriting.
williamc said:
Point one - the quality is more important than the quantity but... if you aren't sure a good guide is:
WWI - you can get full marks using only the given pages but most of the top responses will write an extra page or so for each of the 10 mark questions.
Personalities - top marks needs about 4 pages for the describe section and about 6 for the second section
Essays (both National and Internationa Studies) you should be looking at 8 - 10 pages
The pages sizes I am referring to here are exam booklet pages remember.
These are a guide only and are assuming average size handwriting.
bashbousha
New Member
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2006
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- 2007
Re: Russia: Some Historiography and sources for you to quote from
Hey
Thanks a million. Really helps.
P.S. I hate modern :mad1:
Hey
Thanks a million. Really helps.
P.S. I hate modern :mad1:
love.is.around
Member
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- 469
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- Female
- HSC
- 2007
Re: Germany Historiography- not asking, giving.
Thanks VERY MUCH,!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks VERY MUCH,!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
revhead.meg
New Member
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Re: Germany Historiography- not asking, giving.
thanks soo much!!
thanks soo much!!
revhead.meg
New Member
- Joined
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Re: makin up historians??
how bout if you use a famous historians name but make up the actual quote, would you possible get away with it?miss_ripcurlgir said:
revhead.meg
New Member
- Joined
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Re: makin up historians??
my bad guys
ok ignore my last post lol i just read a reply that already answered my question lolrevhead.meg said:
my bad guys
hopeles5ly
Take Me Higher.
Re: makin up historians??
All my historiography consisted of fake historians. You should have seen my argument for the second Leni Riefenstahl question in last years paper. And yes, i did get a good mark, although i wasn't really satisfied. Hence, i still hold to the belief that HSC markers are stupid or either lazy. generalizations FTW - fuck off if you don't agree.-pari- said: