Now Rudd Pays the Price! (3 Viewers)

[chicky_pie]

Howard banned guns (not too big on that)
Introduced the GST
Revamped the taxation system.
Initiated the super co-contribution scheme
Started the future fund
Sold off Telstra and other useless assets

And that's just a few off the top of my head in about 5 seconds.

He also got us into an illegal war, but that's neither here nor there as Ruddkip is gettin us a be out of it what were.

Oh and he did dole out giant delicious chunks of middle class welfare.

Also, Howard got Australia out of debt and we recovered from the recession.

 

[The_highwayman]

i agree that, for the short term at least, we're just gunna have to deal with the high petrol prices.
i think instead of cutting excise or anything like that we should instead be pledging the money to the betterment of public transport (particularly here in NSW) and possibly subsidizing such practices as car pooling (like at toll booths. is this done already? we don't have tolls in newcastle )

EDIT: i am also growing increasingly tired of those political idealist teenagers who repeatedly bag howard out just because they dont know any different. his stewardship of this country whilst in no way flawless (hey, welcome to politics!) was excellent and has placed us in a very strong and favourable position.

 

[iamsickofyear12]

i agree that, for the short term at least, we're just gunna have to deal with the high petrol prices.
i think instead of cutting excise or anything like that we should instead be pledging the money to the betterment of public transport (particularly here in NSW) and possibly subsidizing such practices as car pooling (like at toll booths. is this done already? we don't have tolls in newcastle )

There isn't enough money to properly fix public transport in Sydney.

 

[The_highwayman]

There isn't enough money to properly fix public transport in Sydney.

not with that attitude.

 

[TacoTerrorist]

EDIT: i am also growing increasingly tired of those political idealist teenagers who repeatedly bag howard out just because they dont know any different. his stewardship of this country whilst in no way flawless (hey, welcome to politics!) was excellent and has placed us in a very strong and favourable position.

The rich benefit from a strong economy, not so much the middle and lower classes. The cost of living was and still is rising at a very high rate. Howard was out of touch with the community and his policies protected the wealthy.

 

[Iron]

The rich benefit from a strong economy, not so much the middle and lower classes. The cost of living was and still is rising at a very high rate. .

Would the middle and lower classes benifit from a weak economy and subsequent Indonesian invasion?
Our economy, and the great allies this in turn buys us, is the greatest deterent to the Indonesians we have

 

[spiny norman]

Labour has always been talk talk talk, never even bother to deliver.

Are you saying the party that established the Royal Australian Navy, that constructed a transcontinental railway, that established old-age and disability pensions, maternity allowances and workers compensation, that established the Commonwealth Bank, that changed Australia's chief ally from the United Kingdom to the United States, that saw us through the Second World War, that established Australian citizenship, that set up the Snowy Mountains Scheme, that introduced social security for the unemployed, that founded ASIO, that introduced the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme, that established diplomatic relations with China, that abolished tertiary fees, that abolished the death penalty, that changed the voting age from 21 to 18, that abolished the White Australia Policy, that established the Order of Australia, that established Medicare, that floated the Australian dollar, that ended subsidisation of loss-making industries, that established a national superannuation system and that established the APEC Forum were all examples of talk talk talk, never delivering?

You, sir, are the person in this thread who bags on their opposing party because they don't know any different. Look into history and you'll see neither party can be accused of never doing anything, though whether you agree on what they implemented is what remains a viable source of debate.

 

[chicky_pie]

The rich benefit from a strong economy, not so much the middle and lower classes. The cost of living was and still is rising at a very high rate. Howard was out of touch with the community and his policies protected the wealthy.

Actually the Middle Class and Lower class families benefit better than before, there was a independent report on it, which contradicts what the Rudd government was trying to portray John Howard and the Liberals as only for the rich, where in fact all class (esp. lower class) benefit from the Howard government.

THE incomes of the nation's poorest households rose more dramatically than those of the richest Australians in the final years of the Howard government, buoyed by rising wages and bulging welfare payments. While lone parents, indigenous Australians and the disabled still struggled, overall the poorest households have enjoyed the largest rise in income over the past six years.

http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,23636,23420598-462,00.html

 

[incentivation]

Howard was out of touch with the community and his policies protected the wealthy.

In some ways yes, in some ways no. The cornerstone of Labors success was undoubtedly the leverage that workchoices provided to the union movement and the 'rallying' of the lower classes. Howard had lost touch in this regard. He prioritised ideological policy over what needed to be done. For instance, he would have been far better instituting reform to the taxation system with the senate majority or implementing an overhaul of higher education or health. Workchoices was the poisoned chalice, and whilst issues such as Global Warming and Interest Rates were pertinent, they did not have as big an effect on voting intentions as IR ultimately did.

At the end of the day it proved to be his downfall. However, I still think that the judgement of the elector and of the commentator has been clouded over the past 2 years. It seems any positive of the Howard Government has been swept away, forgotten and history has been re-written. Four election victories do not just happen. They result from the combination of inept Opposition, effective Government and an ability to read the electorate.

I would say that if Rudd had not gained the leadership in Dec 2006, we would all be lambasting the ALP for their incompetence and inability to read the electorate. Howard would also most likely still be Prime Minister. The QLD factor was a major part of the ALP's success. Without those 9 seats (as stated on mumble.com.au) it would be close to a hung parliament.

Additionally, some would even say that the Rudd Government is beginning to exhibit characteristics of being 'out of touch' already. Howard took a number of years to make mistakes such as 'Working families have never been better off'. Rudd has taken less than 6 months to declare himself powerless to the market forces affecting the cost of living pressures facing families.

/rant

 

[bigboyjames]

Would the middle and lower classes benifit from a weak economy and subsequent Indonesian invasion?
Our economy, and the great allies this in turn buys us, is the greatest deterent to the Indonesians we have

lol why would indonsesia want to invade australia. wtf did we do to them.

 

[Iron]

It's not about them wanting to. We should just assume that they have a keen eye for a bargain like most everyone. Without a strong economy, we'd be a soft target, a sitting duck, uncovered meat - it would be too tempting for even the least corrupt to refuse, let alone Jakarta

 

[incentivation]

It's not about them wanting to. We should just assume that they have a keen eye for a bargain like most everyone. Without a strong economy, we'd be a soft target, a sitting duck, uncovered meat - it would be too tempting for even the least corrupt to refuse, let alone Jakarta

Have you been listening to Brian Wiltshire? Apparently with the privatisation of our assets, Jakarta will own Telstra soon enough..

 

[F2001]

Yeah but without that petrol excise how would we pay for the roads you cumhoarder.

If they drop the excise completely, it won't make any difference because the global demand for Oil is going up.

What you want is effectively a subsidy. Great idea, spacktard. Let us make a bad situation even worse by promoting the usage of petrol.

The excise is bullshit, but it's a tax directly designed to support roads and road usage.

Oil's fucked, this is a great time for renewable energy supplies, etc, to be utilised because they make more economic sense in the long term.

Let the freer market of renewable energy and the like replace the highly controlled market of oil (OPEC blocking supply, etc).

It just makes sense, unless you're a fuel-guzzling retard that wants to spend all of his time in a riced out civic trying to pick up 12 year olds in the western suburbs.

Here is this idiot talking about an excise. Go compare global petrol prices, and tell me that's all excise. Massive retard.

Yes I'm a petrol head, and you're far more likely to be the one "cruising" in your fart car whereas im on EC/Wakefield/Oran dickhead.
Shows how ignorant you are when my username is F2001, you mention a fucking Civic, let alone a Honda. If Rudd was a hero and doing something for the greeny hippies, (and typical labour spend spend spend, oh woops), he'd have a program to convert/regulate petrol to 10%+ biofuel and have a program similar to LPG conversion (but better, for eg it"ll take me 2.5+ yrs inc cashback to break even on LPG)

What is the cost and byproduct of these greener alternatives for motors (and I have already said motorists arn't anywhere near the problem compared to other ... sectors of consumption).

You prove to me you are a typical hippie, tata dumbfuck!

Why is oil price so high.

Why are dirty sleezes in some part of the world filling up for as less as 34C/L. Please don't say that's all excise. idiot.

 

[F2001]

Are you saying the party that established the Royal Australian Navy, that constructed a transcontinental railway, that established old-age and disability pensions, maternity allowances and workers compensation, that established the Commonwealth Bank, that changed Australia's chief ally from the United Kingdom to the United States, that saw us through the Second World War, that established Australian citizenship, that set up the Snowy Mountains Scheme, that introduced social security for the unemployed, that founded ASIO, that introduced the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme, that established diplomatic relations with China, that abolished tertiary fees, that abolished the death penalty, that changed the voting age from 21 to 18, that abolished the White Australia Policy, that established the Order of Australia, that established Medicare, that floated the Australian dollar, that ended subsidisation of loss-making industries, that established a national superannuation system and that established the APEC Forum were all examples of talk talk talk, never delivering?

You, sir, are the person in this thread who bags on their opposing party because they don't know any different. Look into history and you'll see neither party can be accused of never doing anything, though whether you agree on what they implemented is what remains a viable source of debate.

Let's see, match these to an era. The only man worth mentioning from that party is Keating. After that, YES they have been rubbish and predictable. Predictable, ie to deliver politics.

You see get your head of your ass, look ahead not dwell on great things labour did in the FAR past.

The rich benefit from a strong economy, not so much the middle and lower classes. The cost of living was and still is rising at a very high rate. Howard was out of touch with the community and his policies protected the wealthy.

yea, and Rudd is helping "working families" Let's see, middle and lower classes have something called a fucking mortgage. And then, tell me the indirect effects of high IRs. What was the IRs in other labour governments time? They make a mockery of the word; management.

 

[The_highwayman]

the fact that rudd had to basically mimic howard in many aspects to even get where he is now portrays just how successful howard was as a prime minister.

 

[Serius]

No.

The government should be increasing tax on petrol, if anything. Populism FTL.

Agreed, a petrol tax cut wouldnt really do anything except maybe increase petrol sold and then that would cause prices to go back up, so basically the government wastes billions on a tax cut, more petrol is used so its worse for the environment and prices stay about the same.

A petrol tax rise should on the other hand reduce consumption and force the market to go for alternatives like electric cars, walking, public transport, riding the bike etc.

 

[JaredR]

You guys have lost touch. This thread was supposed to be about bagging Rudd, not about praising Howard, as hard as it is not to.

 

[Ubik]

The only man worth mentioning from that party is Keating. After that, YES they have been rubbish and predictable. Predictable, ie to deliver politics

Lol, what reforms did you expect federal labour to enact when in opposition for 12 years?

Why is oil price so high.

Peak oil.

 

[The_highwayman]

mine Antarctica!

 

[Riet]

The best way to tackle high prices is high prices. If people weren't so car dependant they would cut down their usage instead of whining about petrol prices.

The tax system is already fucked; people can lease cars from their work and then actually get a larger tax deduction for the further they drive. It's a completely reckless and unsustainable mentality.

Instead of this bullshit price watch or the even more ridiculous idea of a cut on petrol excise; the Rudd government should raise the excise to 50c. By my calculations that's approximately $3 billion extra annually (based on 2005 usage, probably slightly more. This money could be divided equally among:

-meaningfully improving public transport in the major cities
-upgrading our shitty national freight rail network (Australia's reliance on trucks is absurd. There is no reason why interstate freight shouldn't be going by rail)
-encouraging investment in renewables on an individual and corporate basis via meaningful subsidies

Since European governments leveled the playing fields in regard to renewable energy sources, their greenhouse gas emissions have gone down and their economies have thrived. The government currently gives massive subsidies to the coal industry for research into such absurdities as 'clean coal.' I find it deplorable that countries like Germany and Japan are larger users of solar electricity than we are considering our landscape and climate.
Since its subsidisation, over 35,000 jobs have been created in Germany. The same thing could happen here.

To be honest I'm not even a greenie, really couldn't give a shit about CO2 emissions and that. I do however consider myself an economic rationalist and this current ongoing debate makes my brain hurt. I can't even say "oh shit, should have voted for the Libs instead" (not that it'd matter, living in Grayndler), since the opposition are being equally retarded. Look how well the snowy river scheme worked out (well except for the screwing up of the river system). It created huge numbers of jobs, boosted the economy massively, and still provides 3.5% of the mainland’s total grid electricity. That's the kind of foresight we need with widespread encouragement and adoption of renewables or we'll be left behind burning coal until there's none left.

So in closing: fuck the government/opposition with their populist tax cutting shit and get real.