[Official Critique Thread] (2 Viewers)

[goldendawn]

Yes! I agree entirely. I read "Earthsea Quartet" (now quintet) when I was younger and found it depressing. As I have gotten older, I have come to really like both its ideas (well, most of them, some I don't like) and its style. My favourites are "A Wizard of Earthsea" and "Tombs of Atuan". Feist's "Magician" is interesting, but really becomes a rip off of LOTR and loses its artistic aura. The only Feist books I applaude are "Daughter of the Empire", "Servant of the Empire" and "Mistress of the Empire". He wrote these in collaboration with Janny Wurts. I haven't heard of David Gemmel yet. I will keep my ears out for him, and see if this books are at the library

As for King, to be honest, I haven't read his novels. I have only read his book "On Writing", which I enjoyed immensely and found very insightful on some points. I don't think his writers aesthetic appeals to me wholly, even though I greatly respect and appreciate him as a writer.

"Harry Potter" is excellent because its fun to read, but makes you think as well. That being said it annoyes me how "Harry Potter" is being marketed; people are cashing in on Rowlings passion in a way which seems almost to debase the creative purity of the work. The same could be said of LOTR - which is a reason Tolkien didn't want it made into a film in the first place.

The characters and elements of landscape and society in my Major Work are a break off from the book/series I started writing a few years back. (I can't wait to finish exams and keep working on it!). I want to write for a living and as a form of artistic expression.

What was your major work about?

 

[jhakka]

My major work was something that just happened one night. Literally. I'd decided I didn't like my old idea, sat down at the computer and just wrote the first thing that came into my mind.

The central idea of my story (a modified version of the central concept of my original idea) is that anything is possible with faith.

There is a hermit who speaks of magic being the physical product of faith, and that everyone is capable of it. Everyone thinks he's mad. Anyways, one boy befriends him and eventually he learns to use magic. Blah blah blah. Some soldiers die and the King pretty much says "Oh shit, there are magic users in that town" and sends in his army to kill everyone. Story ends just before the army arrives.

Explanation isn't that great. The story is better.

But to be nice, I'll post the first thing I wrote for my story (first draft material here). It was originally going to be my prologue, but now it's not. It's about halfway into the story now.

NOTE: The name of the town was changed to Skewiff a few weeks before submission. Craphole was always temporary.

EDIT: File taken down. I'm a paranoid bugger. I don't even usually have that much up.

 

[goldendawn]

My major work was something that just happened one night. Literally. I'd decided I didn't like my old idea, sat down at the computer and just wrote the first thing that came into my mind.

The central idea of my story (a modified version of the central concept of my original idea) is that anything is possible with faith.

There is a hermit who speaks of magic being the physical product of faith, and that everyone is capable of it. Everyone thinks he's mad. Anyways, one boy befriends him and eventually he learns to use magic. Blah blah blah. Some soldiers die and the King pretty much says "Oh shit, there are magic users in that town" and sends in his army to kill everyone. Story ends just before the army arrives.

Explanation isn't that great. The story is better.

But to be nice, I'll post the first thing I wrote for my story (first draft material here). It was originally going to be my prologue, but now it's not. It's about halfway into the story now.

NOTE: The name of the town was changed to Skewiff a few weeks before submission. Craphole was always temporary.

Your idea sounds interesting, and from the snippet it seems as if that idea would grow into a uninhibited and readable story. Was calling the town "Craphole" meant to capture the audience through humour? It came as a bit of a shock, after you had gone to such length to establish verisimillitude through the letter technique. It worked though, lol. The idea that faith or belief allow you to 'accomplish anything' interests me, despite that it has become (and I hate this word) cliched. It would be interesting to see how you developed this idea through the greater plot.

 

[jhakka]

Your idea sounds interesting, and from the snippet it seems as if that idea would grow into a uninhibited and readable story. Was calling the town "Craphole" meant to capture the audience through humour? It came as a bit of a shock, after you had gone to such length to establish verisimillitude through the letter technique. It worked though, lol. The idea that faith or belief allow you to 'accomplish anything' interests me, despite that it has become (and I hate this word) cliched. It would be interesting to see how you developed this idea through the greater plot.

NOTE: The name of the town was changed to Skewiff a few weeks before submission. Craphole was always temporary.

Yeah, I know it's cliched, but I figured it was a decent enough central concept, particularly if it's not just "believe in yourself and you can be proud even if you fail," but rather "let go of your perceptions of what is and isn't possible, and it bloody will happen," if you know what I mean. It was a good enough base for my plot, in any case, and with only 8000 words, it's hard to develop a completely unique concept while moving the plot along nicely.

I focused mainly on character development in my story, and let my concept become a literal thing, rather than motivational. Here is one more extract (and this is the last thing I'm putting up) relating to it:

“… and if magic is the ability to manipulate the world around you without any physical effort, every man, woman and child is guilty of the use of these so called forbidden arts. Why does the burning of a man accused of practicing witchcraft counteract any and all magic that could allow his spirit from returning? It is merely the unconscious use of the only true magic. Faith, my friends, is magic in its purest…”
Rodney

But coming back to plot development, I had to do lots of jumps over months at a time, though in between each section, I placed something that someone said or wrote (in the story, not actual extracts) to give enough info for the reader to understand the concept, the characters and even where the story was going. It was a nice change from simple narrative in any case.


Am I talking too much about my own work? :\

 

[goldendawn]

haha, no, you're not talking too much about your own work. This is interesting. I agree with the idea that 'magic' is the affecting of changes in consciousness at will, and that 'magic' underpins all sacred things, like faith. It sounded cliched at first, but with some explanation it takes on a character all of its own, and says something real. It puts the mystical, "know thyself" element back into our psyche. I think the 21st century has lost its sense of mystery, the good sense of mystery, the necessary sense of mystery, and we will stagnate and despair without both mystery, and 'magic' - or faith.

I totally changed my idea as well, but that was early on in the year. I started my whole story from one sketch of imagery which I wrote, elaborated and refined:

"All lands on this earth are the children of Time, of the Great Parent, are born from its womb and share its secrets. And Time, the Great Parent, gives unto its children the gift of the passing moment, so that its children may grow from seed to sapling, from sapling to tree, from tree to forest, so that they may give birth to shade and to fruit and to rich dark soil that smells of wetness and genesis, of the maternity of the earth. The children of Time are the great places of the earth, entangled by crawling vines, by webs of shade and light dripping from high leaves, covered with damp moss, gnarled trunks rising tall from the muddy navel of earth, lungs made of twisted wood groaning with life, the voices of leaves whispering of the secret cycles…



But only the sound of soft wind across a red and barren landscape responded to the memory of forbidden dreams.

I opened my eyes. And all around me there was another landscape, another child, who, in the time before humanity was conceived, had dissented from its Great Parent, and had been exiled. Its red sands lie still while the stretching sky dreams of fire and stars, the purple horizon a drowsy eye-lid on the verge of opening. The desert lies far beyond the kingdoms of time, beyond the damp green of yearning trees and crawling moss and sinking mist. Now and again, its brothers and sisters will send rain and wind to taunt it, and loom above it always as a fiery yellow eye, always watching. But sand and heat and emptiness keep Time ever beyond the fringes. The people of the desert are also the children of Time, for all people are made of the sinews and the flesh of the earth. But like the desert, their ancestors chose exile"

 

[jhakka]

haha, no, you're not talking too much about your own work. This is interesting. I agree with the idea that 'magic' is the affecting of changes in consciousness at will, and that 'magic' underpins all sacred things, like faith. It sounded cliched at first, but with some explanation it takes on a character all of its own, and says something real. It puts the mystical, "know thyself" element back into our psyche. I think the 21st century has lost its sense of mystery, the good sense of mystery, the necessary sense of mystery, and we will stagnate and despair without both mystery, and 'magic' - or faith.

I totally changed my idea as well, but that was early on in the year. I started my whole story from one sketch of imagery which I wrote, elaborated and refined:

"All lands on this earth are the children of Time, of the Great Parent, are born from its womb and share its secrets. And Time, the Great Parent, gives unto its children the gift of the passing moment, so that its children may grow from seed to sapling, from sapling to tree, from tree to forest, so that they may give birth to shade and to fruit and to rich dark soil that smells of wetness and genesis, of the maternity of the earth. The children of Time are the great places of the earth, entangled by crawling vines, by webs of shade and light dripping from high leaves, covered with damp moss, gnarled trunks rising tall from the muddy navel of earth, lungs made of twisted wood groaning with life, the voices of leaves whispering of the secret cycles…



But only the sound of soft wind across a red and barren landscape responded to the memory of forbidden dreams.

I opened my eyes. And all around me there was another landscape, another child, who, in the time before humanity was conceived, had dissented from its Great Parent, and had been exiled. Its red sands lie still while the stretching sky dreams of fire and stars, the purple horizon a drowsy eye-lid on the verge of opening. The desert lies far beyond the kingdoms of time, beyond the damp green of yearning trees and crawling moss and sinking mist. Now and again, its brothers and sisters will send rain and wind to taunt it, and loom above it always as a fiery yellow eye, always watching. But sand and heat and emptiness keep Time ever beyond the fringes. The people of the desert are also the children of Time, for all people are made of the sinews and the flesh of the earth. But like the desert, their ancestors chose exile"

I must say, I really like your personification of Time, the Great Parent, and the rest of the world. It is a convention that pops up a fair bit, the idea that the land or time are the source of everything (which probably isn't too far from reality). I also like the idea of exile, a theme that is common in god knows how many fantasy texts, and although common, it is not cliched or over done because it gives characters legitimate motivation for the choices, whether that is a life of solitude or the path of revenge (though the use of the word "chose" indicates that there is no reason for revenge in this context).

I find that writing one thing that you like is always a good base for a story, and from what I see, you have found this too. Your base allows all manner of possibilities and you can allow your story to go pretty much wherever you want it, from something involving the Gods to something like finding water.

In addition, a good base with a flexible concept can allow change and evolution in the story, something I feel is essential to the writing process, particularly when you are starting from scratch.

 

[goldendawn]

I must say, I really like your personification of Time, the Great Parent, and the rest of the world. It is a convention that pops up a fair bit, the idea that the land or time are the source of everything (which probably isn't too far from reality). I also like the idea of exile, a theme that is common in god knows how many fantasy texts, and although common, it is not cliched or over done because it gives characters legitimate motivation for the choices, whether that is a life of solitude or the path of revenge (though the use of the word "chose" indicates that there is no reason for revenge in this context).

I find that writing one thing that you like is always a good base for a story, and from what I see, you have found this too. Your base allows all manner of possibilities and you can allow your story to go pretty much wherever you want it, from something involving the Gods to something like finding water.

In addition, a good base with a flexible concept can allow change and evolution in the story, something I feel is essential to the writing process, particularly when you are starting from scratch.

Yeah. I began with something I really enjoyed, and the story flowed through that beginning. My process is to begin with a creative outburst, and see where it takes me. Once I get thinking about it, I may change it, refine it, etc. But in the end a story is born from it.

The whole story ended up being about the relationship of mankind to Time; how we have initially accepted its cycles as divine, how we later reject Time, calling it the source of pain, uncertainty and loss, but how we come in the end to realise the truth of what we began with (ignorance is bliss, knowing nothing is akin to knowing everything, coming full circle). It is really about our own cycles of questioning, rejection and acceptance, just like modernism rejected Victorianism and post-modernism has rejected modernism (And I am sure that we will have another shift which rejects postmodernism. What are we gonna call it? uber-postmodernism? hehe). I did all this through fantasy (my favourite). I created a society and expressed their history and social and relgious beliefs through extracts at the begginning of each section.

 

[jhakka]

Ooohh... another extract-sectioner. I'm definitely going to have to read yours (if it's in here?) when I'm less asleep.

The circle of time is another fantasy convention that has been popular over the years, or at least the idea that time is predictable (through the use of prophecy, mainly). Indeed, this idea is explored greatly by Robin Hobb, though the approach that we can change the cycle of time is taken.

Your idea sounds interesting, and although it complies with conventions it is far from cliched (from what you've said), and from what you posted in your previous post, your story certainly appears to be both easily readable and enjoyable.

Anyways, I'm going to bed, because if I stay up any longer I'll lose all coherency. 'Night.

 

[goldendawn]

Ooohh... another extract-sectioner. I'm definitely going to have to read yours (if it's in here?) when I'm less asleep.

The circle of time is another fantasy convention that has been popular over the years, or at least the idea that time is predictable (through the use of prophecy, mainly). Indeed, this idea is explored greatly by Robin Hobb, though the approach that we can change the cycle of time is taken.

Your idea sounds interesting, and although it complies with conventions it is far from cliched (from what you've said), and from what you posted in your previous post, your story certainly appears to be both easily readable and enjoyable.

Thanks. I certainly laboured with it enough. Yeah, it is on the site. You can find it in the "Young Writers Showcase 2004" thread. For the meanwhile, lol, get some sleep. You want to be well rested for your exams. Luckily, I don't have another exam for 7 days...woohoo...lets hope I don't bludge...

PS: My friend read the cycle of time stuff by Robin Hobb...its on my reading list....after I finish reading "Sea of Stories"

Night.

 

[Jonnieette]

Thanks for the replys to my story. jkkarta sorry i bored u not exactly the intention. Thanks mugrug its good to hear that someone else is empathetic with the character. As for goldendawn..........THATS NOT FAIR. It took me months to realise all those themes and meanings and stuff and you picked them up in one reading. Great i just used the words "and stuff".....real smooth for an ext 2 student. Anyway besides it being not fair, i was thrilled that you liked my story. I know there is nothing i can do now that its handed in....but its good to know its not a TOTAL waste of effort. Id love to read your story i saw some of the extracts in the end posts, it sounds enthralling.

 

[goldendawn]

Thanks for the replys to my story. jkkarta sorry i bored u not exactly the intention. Thanks mugrug its good to hear that someone else is empathetic with the character. As for goldendawn..........THATS NOT FAIR. It took me months to realise all those themes and meanings and stuff and you picked them up in one reading. Great i just used the words "and stuff".....real smooth for an ext 2 student. Anyway besides it being not fair, i was thrilled that you liked my story. I know there is nothing i can do now that its handed in....but its good to know its not a TOTAL waste of effort. Id love to read your story i saw some of the extracts in the end posts, it sounds enthralling.

haha, that's ok Jonnieette, "stuff" is still a legitimate descriptive word, its just used colloquially nowadays. Yeah, I found your work very interesting, thought it very well done, and I hope the markers like it too (who knows what goes in the the mind of a marker?). As for me for picking up themes and meaning in one reading - well, I suppose its a good thing when your work moves someone, or speaks to them (another good thing is when your work moves you!). On that note, I wouldn't mind some more people reading my major work and telling me what they think of it. (its in "Young Writers Showcase 2004" thread if anyone's interested).

cheers.

 

[Llyrai]

goldendawn, were you doing speculative fiction?

You seem to know an awful lot about modern concepts underpinning magic

 

[goldendawn]

Yes, I did do Speculative Fiction. I enjoyed it immensely...

 

[praise897]

i really like yours mugrug. that is all!

 

[mugrug]

Thanks heaps, I really appreciate it ^^

 

[mugrug]

Well it looks as though this thread has died =P

 

[ameh]

was it something i posted?

=P

 

[mugrug]

I think so...

...sorry

=(

 

[ameh]

=)


...........................

 

[Karlz04]

Ok, I know I'm a little late, the HSC is finished, and the marks are given, but I'd still like to read peoples opinions on my MW. I perfer honesty, even if its not favourable, so please be truthful.