Petitions for disclosure of marks (1 Viewer)

[Lazarus]

Does someone want to volunteer to organise these?

Namu?

I am thinking there should be three:

- release of raw marks
- release of scaled marks
- release of raw band cut-offs

It's important that each petition is as simple and to the point as possible. They need to be well-written - I think we'll go through a few drafts before releasing them.

They need to focus on why disclosure would be in the public interest and in addition to the usual assertions about transparency they should list any practical benefits associated with disclosure.

Each petition should also include a declaration that each person's personal information may, upon an undertaking or order of confidentiality, be disclosed to the NSW Government or to a court or tribunal.

The petitions might be signed by HSC students (former, current, future), parents, teachers or other parties interested in education and need to have regard to that audience.

Thoughts?

 

[lyounamu]

Does someone want to volunteer to organise these?

Namu?

I will be glad to do so.

I am thinking there should be three:

- release of raw marks
- release of scaled marks
- release of raw band cut-offs

Agreed.

It's important that each petition is as simple and to the point as possible. They need to be well-written - I think we'll go through a few drafts before releasing them.

They need to focus on why disclosure would be in the public interest and in addition to the usual assertions about transparency they should list any practical benefits associated with disclosure.

So you are looking for a different petition for each objective?

I have few thoughts on that (i.e. underlined part). I will see if I can think of few more.

Each petition should also include a declaration that each person's personal information may, upon an undertaking or order of confidentiality, be disclosed to the NSW Government or to a court or tribunal.

That is agreed. I will make sure the participants are aware of such disclosures.

The petitions might be signed by HSC students (former, current, future), parents, teachers or other parties interested in education and need to have regard to that audience.

I see. But I have one issue here. How will I be able to conduct my own petition? Through this website? It's little bit risky to make a thread. Should I rather start with private messages and spread the word? That's little bit risky too.

About the private information, I will be asking the followings:

1. student number
2. name (full name)
3. age (i.e. DOB)
4. school
5. Anything else?

 

[dp624]

Could I perhaps add the aggregates/UAI correlation. At the moment we only have a limited amount of data which we could use for predictions. i.e. 483.5 is 100, etc. However the data points for 99.95, 99.90 and so on would need clarification from year to year.
Also, I think the petition might include the raw band cutoffs for the past 8 years as well.

I think a direction of thinking which would be quite efficient for our 'practical benefits' should revolve around how the transparency of data allows for accurate predictions and the ability to set reasonable goals.

Will brainstorm more soon.

 

[lyounamu]

Could I perhaps add the aggregates/UAI correlation. At the moment we only have a limited amount of data which we could use for predictions. i.e. 483.5 is 100, etc. However the data points for 99.95, 99.90 and so on would need clarification from year to year.
Also, I think the petition might include the raw band cutoffs for the past 8 years as well.

I think a direction of thinking which would be quite efficient for our 'practical benefits' should revolve around how the transparency of data allows for accurate predictions and the ability to set reasonable goals.

Will brainstorm more soon.

You mean the aggregate vs UAI cut-off?

And agreed.

 

[dp624]

Yeah, the aggregate vs uai cutoff.
and raw band cutoffs for each subject.

Actually, do you think perhaps we're being a bit ambitious with our first project? It seems kind of far-reaching.

 

[lyounamu]

Yeah, the aggregate vs uai cutoff.
and raw band cutoffs for each subject.

Actually, do you think perhaps we're being a bit ambitious with our first project? It seems kind of far-reaching.

Well, JK with others have been going around this issue for the past 7 years or so. If you consider that, what we are basically doing is the brief revision of all issues.

 

[Lazarus]

It shouldn't be done on this site - there are heaps of free sites out there allowing people to start their own petitions - see if you can find a decent one - e.g.

www.PetitionOnline.com - Free Online Petition Hosting
GoPetition Australia - Free Online Petitions / How to Write a Petition / Australian Petitions
Petition Spot - start free online petitions at petition spot

By the way, these won't be formal petitions - electronic signatures don't count - and it's questionable about whether presenting petitions on these issues to the NSW Government would actually achieve anything anyway - but they will increase public awareness of the issues and there is a small chance a tribunal might see them as evidence of the public interest.

See e.g. HSC English Exam Blunder Petition - although not very well written etc.

 

[Lazarus]

Yeah, the aggregate vs uai cutoff.

I am not sure how much interest would be shown in this - but if you think so - go ahead.

Actually, do you think perhaps we're being a bit ambitious with our first project? It seems kind of far-reaching.

The objective of these petitions isn't to have the marks released - I don't think petitions can achieve that - the true objective is to just to bolster the campaign and increase public awareness.

If we get a few thousand people supporting it suddenly everyone will start taking the overall campaign more seriously - media etc.

 

[lyounamu]

It shouldn't be done on this site - there are heaps of free sites out there allowing people to start their own petitions - see if you can find a decent one - e.g.

www.PetitionOnline.com - Free Online Petition Hosting
GoPetition Australia - Free Online Petitions / How to Write a Petition / Australian Petitions
Petition Spot - start free online petitions at petition spot

By the way, these won't be formal petitions - electronic signatures don't count - and it's questionable about whether presenting petitions on these issues to the NSW Government would actually achieve anything anyway - but they will increase public awareness of the issues and there is a small chance a tribunal might see them as evidence of the public interest.

See e.g. HSC English Exam Blunder Petition - although not very well written etc.

Oh I see.

I will check them out. Thanks

 

[lyounamu]

Hey, James.

I have another little issue. How would I be able to attract people with this? Can I just post a link to this petition on my signature? But that would be little...

This is little bit of what I have done so far:

Title: Disclosure of raw marks/scaled marks/raw band cut-offs under the Freedom of Information Act 1989 (NSW)

^This is little bit specific. Should I make a little broader title?

Target: Board of Studies (Education Agency of the NSW Government)

^Again, this is little bit specific too. But I think this is the major party that we are trying to deal this issue with.

Petition Description:
Dear former/current/future HSC students and the Board of Studies representatives

edit: I am writing little bits by bits...

edit: there will be 3 petitions and I am not sure if I should do another one related to the David's request.

 

[dp624]

You don't have to do one with mine.
If no-one other than me is interested in finding out which aggregates lead to a certain UAI then don't worry for now.

I think that perhaps you should keep the title snappy so it's easily spread? Perhaps you'd take off the bit "under the Freedom of Information Act 1989 (NSW)" and put that into the description perhaps.

Target: perhaps the TSC, UAC and Board of Studies.

This'll be interesting

 

[Lazarus]

I'm definitely interested in finding out the exact aggregate/UAI equivalences but in terms of generating hype and awareness I think it's too specific for a petition.

I am also rethinking the idea of separate petitions. The thought has occurred to me that we might be inadvertently diluting signatures by splitting them up.

It may be better to incorporate everything into one big petition under a general call for greater transparency and accountability - with separate headings for raw marks, scaled marks etc explaining why it is needed for each.

I have another little issue. How would I be able to attract people with this? Can I just post a link to this petition on my signature? But that would be little...

Once they're ready to go live I can post links on the homepages for the forums, resources and in SAM.

I can also try to spark something like a viral marketing campaign with recent HSC students passing the links on to friends from school etc.

So I'll help you promote it initially.

How about -

Title: Petition for greater transparency and accountability in relation to HSC marks and UAIs

Target: NSW Board of Studies, NSW Universities

The description is obviously the meaty bit, and I think one of the hardest tasks will be talking about raw marks and scaled marks and cut-offs in a way that everyone will understand - e.g. someone from the media who did the HSC 10 years ago.

 

[lyounamu]

Hey, James. Do I need to write 3 petitions? (separately for each one?)

I have been writing with that in mind....

 

[Lazarus]

I think we should stick with one for now and keep the focus on that.

Can you combine what you have written into one document with the contents of each separate petition just going under a new heading in the combined one?

 

[lyounamu]

I think we should stick with one for now and keep the focus on that.

Can you combine what you have written into one document with the contents of each separate petition just going under a new heading in the combined one?

Oh I see. I will do that. Thanks for the advice.

 

[lyounamu]

Hey, guys. This is the BACKGROUND INFO. I am currently working on the objectives of this petition section and the reasons for the proposal.

See if this part sounds clear enough. Please give me some advices (e.g. what to add and what to cut)

Title: Petitions for greater transparency and accountability in relation to HSC marks and UAI.

Target: The NSW Board of Studies, NSW universities.

Dear former/current/future HSC students, teachers and other associates of the NSW education system

Since the introduction of the new HSC system in 2001, countless requests have been sent to government education agency, Board of Studies to take a step forward for a greater transparency and accountability in relation to the HSC results reporting procedures. Despite all these efforts by the past and current students of the HSC and other associates, Board of Studies has reluctantly refused to openly reveal how our HSC results are marked, aligned and reported. There have been successful attempts in the past to acquire some information in regards to this issue by former HSC students such as James King However, the releases of the raw marks vs. aligned marks have been highly specific to the individuals in terms of their HSC subjects and performances. This meant that great majority of students who undertook different subjects and had varying level of academic performance found it difficult to estimate how the marking system affected their own subjects. Due to this reason, there are still great numbers of subjects where their marking procedures seem quite ambiguous.

This is a little background information for those who are not fully aware of the marking system that Board of Studies adopts:
• There are 3 different marks in relation to HSC and UAI system: RAW HSC marks, ALIGNED HSC marks and SCALED HSC marks.
• RAW HSC marks refer to the actual exam results that students received from the exam (e.g. 112/120 for Mathematics or 70/84 for Mathematics Extension 1 courses). We never get to know these raw marks.
• ALIGNED HSC marks refer to the marks that we receive on our HSC results. Many people perceive these to be our “true” HSC exam results. However, this mark is “aligned” from RAW HSC marks in reality. This is the only marks that we get to be informed.
• SCALED HSC marks refer to the marks that are derived from our RAW HSC marks. Scaling is necessary as different people take different exams, hence scaling ensures that fairness spreads across every subject. We don’t get to be informed about this mark either.

 

[Lazarus]

Sorry Namu, I have been super busy trying to fix other things around the site.

However these things are always turning over in the back of my mind and I think I have come up with a better way of mustering an army.

It goes a little something like this.

We encourage people to apply for their raw marks and post up template application forms for them to use.

Instead of requesting them under FOI the request is made under privacy legislation.

Thus there is no application fee and all you need to do is send off the letter.

All the same exemptions apply, so it will be refused, but if you seek an internal review of the decision (also free), the agency has a statutory obligation to make a report to the Privacy Commissioner.

i.e. every single time someone requests their raw marks and is refused the BOS has to report it to the NSW Privacy Commissioner.

I think this might be more effective. And it's free. Both the Board and the Privacy Commissioner could potentially be inundated with requests and reports.

 

[lyounamu]

Sorry Namu, I have been super busy trying to fix other things around the site.

However these things are always turning over in the back of my mind and I think I have come up with a better way of mustering an army.

It goes a little something like this.

We encourage people to apply for their raw marks and post up template application forms for them to use.

Instead of requesting them under FOI the request is made under privacy legislation.

Thus there is no application fee and all you need to do is send off the letter.

All the same exemptions apply, so it will be refused, but if you seek an internal review of the decision (also free), the agency has a statutory obligation to make a report to the Privacy Commissioner.

i.e. every single time someone requests their raw marks and is refused the BOS has to report it to the NSW Privacy Commissioner.

I think this might be more effective. And it's free. Both the Board and the Privacy Commissioner could potentially be inundated with requests and reports.

Haha, it's okay. Considering the great changes you have brought, that's not much of an issue.

BTW, how would we be able to send off all these letters though? We definitely need more people sending off letters then. Are you going to advertise that on the website to get people to send off the letters? (like what you did with dp624 and James?)

And would I be able to send a letter? (I am not too sure because I haven't officially finished my HSC...only two courses)...

 

[Lazarus]

BTW, how would we be able to send off all these letters though? We definitely need more people sending off letters then. Are you going to advertise that on the website to get people to send off the letters? (like what you did with dp624 and James?)

And would I be able to send a letter? (I am not too sure because I haven't officially finished my HSC...only two courses)...

Yes and yes - exactly like that. I would post up sample letters and sample requests for review, people could just fill in their details, print and send.

Yes you can also send a letter, you would just be requesting marks for only two courses. You could then send another after you finish the rest of your courses.

 

[lyounamu]

Yes and yes - exactly like that. I would post up sample letters and sample requests for review, people could just fill in their details, print and send.

Yes you can also send a letter, you would just be requesting marks for only two courses. You could then send another after you finish the rest of your courses.

Oh I see. Thanks for clearing that up.