Redeemer Baptist Church and school (1 Viewer)

[LaraB]

Of course plenty of people are good people and happen to be christian. However some facets of organised religion get to me. In particular how someone you respect highly who you think is intelligent and balanced believes that christian people are more trustworthy and better people.

A person can be a perfectly nice person but still have rather a fucked outlook. Of course there is nothing I can do about that. But I find most christians (I dont really encounter many other religions) to be deeply flawed and hypocritial. However 98% of the time these people are perfectly normal and nice.

I tend to judge a persons trustworthy nature on other things. Not religion. Certainly proclaiming that christians are generally more trustworthy is an interesting perspective that I've heard from more than a few christians. That somehow a church minister is more trustworthy than a person who does not believe in god.

That somehow because Joe Average goes to church on Sunday means he is more trustworthy than someone who does not?

That just because someone is christian they are automatically better people.

We all judge people. But, for me, religion is perhaps the last thing that I would judge a person on. Rather I never cared what religion a person was. It never occured to me. Until I became aware at uni and found out that I'm not to be trusted or somehow less of a person because I do not go to bible study at uni 3 times a week.

all i was gettin at was that yes you may only know one good christian but you may not know who is christian and who isn't so that's just somethin worth considering... i didn't debate anything else you said nor assume that you judge people based on religion so no need to try convince me of it....

just saying that it doesn't really matter. if they good people and they ain't screwin wit you or your life who cares, especially since you can never really tell who is and who isn't christian unless you come out n ask them

EDIT: ps if a christian person believs other christian's are 'better' and more worth looking up to or whatever than a non-christian if anything they are being true to their beliefs and isn't that bette rthan being half assed n picking n choosing the bits of chrsitianity you want? coz ultimately - you're a 'sinner' til you accept God/Jesus whatever so in the view of what they believe it is true so even if you do disagree, a true christian you surely couldn't expect to think too far frmo that..

 

[LaraB]

But whatever. I'm tired of the bible lobby at unsw. I don't care.

I also do not like getting accousted by the christian minions at unsw asking me for a reason why I don't go to bible study.

yes but at the same time i'm sure the bible lobby as you call them are probably equally sick of getting accosted for believing what they believe...

you can't bag them for believing what they believe just as they can't bag you for what they believe just coz you disagree with it.

If their views are so screwy and they're as smart as you said some people who have these views are then they'll turn around to anothe rpoint of view. If they don't, maybe they just weren't so smart as you thought after all...

 

[Generator]

EDIT: ps if a christian person believs other christian's are 'better' and more worth looking up to or whatever than a non-christian if anything they are being true to their beliefs and isn't that bette rthan being half assed n picking n choosing the bits of chrsitianity you want? coz ultimately - you're a 'sinner' til you accept God/Jesus whatever so in the view of what they believe it is true so even if you do disagree, a true christian you surely couldn't expect to think too far frmo that..

It's a closet christian! Run!

 

[LaraB]

It's a closet christian! Run!

uh yeah of course... stepped foot into a church literally 3 times in my life, twice were weddings, never prayed in my life, raised by agnostic parents who were raised catholic and deliberately raised us against it, never read the bible in my life, don't believe in God or jesus as he was portrayed or anything like that exists, don't believe in afterlife but yeah im really a christian deep down

saying that you can't bag people for not accepting your view when obviously you don't accept theirs doesnt mean you agree with the orginal view...

 

[Generator]

uh yeah of course... stepped foot into a church literally 3 times in my life, twice were weddings, never prayed in my life, raised by agnostic parents who were raised catholic and deliberately raised us against it, never read the bible in my life, don't believe in God or jesus as he was portrayed or anything like that exists, don't believe in afterlife but yeah im really a christian deep down

saying that you can't bag people for not accepting your view when obviously you don't accept theirs doesnt mean you agree with the orginal view...

Thanks for over-analysing what was a comment made in jest.

 

[LaraB]

Thanks for over-analysing what was a comment made in jest.

meh didn't realise i needed your permission to comment...

 

[Serius]

why is this turning into a convo about religion? i thought it was about cults, specifically the redeemer one.

i reckon alot of church goers[ NOTE: i didnt say christians] are fucking wacked, they are brainwashed and manipulated into beleiving what the church wants them to beleive. if you think you are really following the word of god why do yuou need to go to church to hear the preists version of the bible? read it for yourself, make your own interpretations and let god speak to you... dont listen to anyone elses bullshit and DEFINATELY do not get manipulated into doing their bidding like those poor redeemer fools. if you are so christian you would know that the only person who can save you is YOURSELF

On tv tonight it was about radical extremist christian groups in america who are slowly but surely waging a war on indecency by getting bills passed about censorship.
its the stupidest thing i have ever heard of, no swearing? wtf? the vast majority of people swear, this isnt the 1950s anymore, we can do what we want[ mind u white american christians were the worst back then. linching black people and all] and its leaking into australian telivision. if you are so upset by seeing a natural part of the human body that GOD gave us[ hehe] then your beleifs are obviously in conflict... you would be better off sitting down, shutting the fuck up and changing channels.. the arguement about kids watching it is bullshit, take responsibility for your own children and dont fall back on some indecency shit.

godam conservative churchy christian freaks piss me off. godamn hypocritical bastards

 

[Xayma]

why is this turning into a convo about religion? i thought it was about cults, specifically the redeemer one

Well cult is a subjective term when used negatively.

I can call Catholicism a cult as correctly as any Catholic can call the Redemmer Baptist Church a cult.

Both use techniques that work the same way (the Redeemer Baptist Church, in my opinion, seems to be more extreme in these techniques however), to try and legislate or stop cults would involve in dismantling all religions inside Australia.

 

[kat_mandu]

Of course plenty of people are good people and happen to be christian. However some facets of organised religion get to me. In particular how someone you respect highly who you think is intelligent and balanced believes that christian people are more'trustworthy' and 'better people'.

A person can be a perfectly nice person but still have a rather fucked outlook. Of course there is nothing I can do about that. But I find most christians (I dont really encounter many other religions) to be deeply hypocritial. However 98% of the time these people are perfectly normal and nice. I'm talking about new style christians who use their christianity to justify their Greed. Essentially interpret the bible to support whatever they are doing in their lives.

I tend to judge a persons trustworthy nature on other things. Not religion. Certainly proclaiming that christians are generally more trustworthy is an interesting perspective that I've heard from more than a few christians. That somehow a church minister is more trustworthy than a person who does not believe in god.

That somehow because Joe Average goes to church on Sunday means he is more trustworthy than someone who does not?

That just because someone is christian they are automatically a better person.

We all judge people. But, for me, religion is perhaps the last thing that I would judge a person on. Rather I never cared what religion a person was. It never occured to me. Until I became aware at uni and found out that I'm not to be trusted or somehow less of a person because I do not go to bible study at uni 3 times a week.

I mean how can you be a holier than thou christian and be a snob and a racist? Does believing in god suddenly make you a better person? Asking for forgivness?

But whatever. I'm tired of the bible lobby at unsw. I don't care.

I also do not like getting accousted by the christian minions at unsw asking me for a reason why I don't go to bible study.

A much less polite law girl suggested I tell them to 'fuck off'.

I am a christian, i attend church on average twice a week and i completely agree with you. Christains who use religion to suggest they are better people are full of shit, and unfortunatly there are way to many hypocrytical christians. Being christian or going to church has nothing to do with how trustworthy you are.

And I am really sick of the christian group at my uni hassling me too!!

 

[Sarah]

Its called group affirmation. To the logical person (most of us) christianity requires MUCH faith. This is what christians rely on. It's a faith based religion.

What do you do when you are unsure about something? You make sure you gather with people of like mind and have a minister or whatever reapeat the same thing about god over and over and over and over - This reaffirms you faith because soomwhere along the line you were told that the man telling is to be trusted and believed (for whatever reason) - This gives the belief ligitimacy.

Chruch is for christians who need a reaffirmation of their faith. They just need the extra peer pressure to make it more real.

Well that description can be applied across to other non-religious groups.

Asqy is not a fan of sheep like peer pressure. I don't really like nodding and agreeing with everything said by some person (Anarchist tendancies perhaps? ...then again we are all slaves to something)

Going and sitting in on bible readings at unsw is like watching sheep. All nodding in unison. I certainly wish I could believe, It would probably give me great peace and happiness. OR maybe not? All these christians (I'm talking about the ones I know. your experiences may vary) are living under this constant fear. Fear of God. Fear of so and so. In my opinion the christian groups at unsw are scary. Their events feel like group mind control therapy.

I don't think it's fear that they live under. Instead, it's more that they believe through abiding to these Christian beliefs they are similar to their own values and so they are in a position to better themselves and their lives.

Asqy when you sit in on a bible reading, instead of being a sheep, why don't you speak out and question what they are saying? I've done it before and the ppl are more than willing to explain their views to you.

 

[saved_by_grace]

Cult definition = a group where the individuals will is lost to a controlling leader! That describes Redeemer perfectly. I agree with what was said about the priest/leader - if you want to learn about God/christianity, look to the bible, not to some man. If the bible is the writings of God and his prophets, then the bible would be more reliable than any persons speach. I guess we should get it direct form the horses mouth - so to speak.

Church is a time when Christians meet together, so that they can learn about GOd. But the bible itself tells christians to check everything they hear from the bible. When ppl stop checking, sinful arrogant men can take over as happened in Redeemer. I guess the best description is that christians enjoy going to bible study, in the same way as people enjoy doing their hobbies. The difference I guess is that Christianity effects one's whole life, and their hobby effects just their leisure time.

 

[Xayma]

cult Pronunciation Key (klt)
n.

1.
1. A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
2. The followers of such a religion or sect.
2. A system or community of religious worship and ritual.
3. The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual.
4. A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease.
5.
1. Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.
2. The object of such devotion.
6. An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest.


[Latin cultus, worship, from past participle of colere, to cultivate. See kwel-1 in Indo-European Roots.]cultic or cultish adj.
cultism n.
cultist n.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

Source:http://www.dictionary.com

Christianity seems to fit that

saved_by_grace of course even if the bible was the word of God and his prophets, it was still translated by man (and not by any so called prophets) so you can't take it as the word of God anymore.

 

[saved_by_grace]

1. A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.

The key word there is authoritarian leader. In groups such as REdeemer - there is this leader who is unquestioned, and who demands respect and allegiance.

When it comes to Christ - while christains may follow him - there is not that authoritarian, overbearing control. For the christian there is a lot of freedom of choice, that the cult leader doesn't permit

"A system or community of religious worship and ritual."
There are many systems and rituals - but i would say that only if those systems became such that it removed individual freedom would i describe a group as exhibiting cultish tendencies

"The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual." My comment is the same as above.

"A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease."
I guess you could put prayer in this caterogry - but God's answer to prayer is not always to heal, sometimes that isn't in his plan.

" Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing."
Interestingly - that i would say a cult ascribes this obsessive behaviour to thier leader. But as someone who came out of a cult, i would say that i now esteem christ as higher than anyman - you may call that an obseession, or devotion to. But devoting self to God, is different to devoting to a man,. Which is what i saw (and did) in Redeemer.

"An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest."
The word exclusive is the key here. Becuase cult groups regard themselves as superior, and don't associate freely with anybody - only those who are members of their group.

Thanks Xymay for the full definition. I would probably disagree with you, and say that not all christianity fits the definition of a cult, becuase not all christians are exclusive, and christ gives his followers much freedom - hes not a control friek like the leaders of the cults are.

 

[neo o]

did you watch the show on Sunday?

well... if you didn't that's partly what they were getting at - yes the school does fairly well academically, yes they appear to care for families introuble etc but the problem is that in a vast majority of cases they expect a ridiculous amount in return for what you give..

a lot of families on the show weren't members of the Redeemer community and just go to the school and said yeah, we don't think the are that nuts but if they are oh well our kids are cared for and gettin a good education but seriously - if the reason why they can afford to be so caring and can achieve such results is because they rort their staff outa money, 'brainwash' community members into handing over all their assets to them. cut off family members for refusing to give in to their beliefs etc then it really is irrelevant if they are caring and whatever

the deeper seeded problems outshadow any other good they do because he principles it is(apparently) based on are immoral and border on illegal.

I was talking about Pacific Hills, not Redeemer. Asqy mentioned it in his post.

 

[umop 3pisdn]

Is the charity they donate to owned by Noel Cannon?

 

[katie_tully]

Way to dig up the corpse of an old thread and sex it.

 

[ari89]

Is the charity they donate to owned by Noel Cannon?

Please, do not speak ill of my leader.