Remove Religious Texts from Syllabus (2 Viewers)

[lbft]

From the syllabus:

Prose Fiction
Students choose one of the following texts, explore its literary qualities and different
readings of the text, and reflect on the values implied by these readings.
Ondaatje, Michael, In the Skin of a Lion, Picador, 1988
Bront, Charlotte, Jane Eyre, Penguin, 1985
Winton, Tim, Cloudstreet, Penguin, 1991

Shakespeare
Students who choose the Shakespeare play explore its literary qualities and the ways in
which different readings are possible and imply different values that may be realised through
different productions.
Shakespeare, William, King Lear, edited by Jay L. Halio, Cambridge University Press
(New Cambridge Shakespeare), 1992

Poetry
Students choose one of the following poets for study. They explore the distinctive qualities
of each poem in the prescribed selection, the ways these poems reflect the poets concerns
and literary style and the values implied in different readings of the poetry.
Plath, Sylvia, Ariel, Faber, 1968.
Lady Lazarus, Ariel, Nick and the Candlestick, Youre, Daddy, The Applicant,
Kindness
Donne, John in The Metaphysical Poets, Penguin, 1972
A Valediction: forbidding mourning, The Sunne Rising, The Relique, Good Friday, 1613. Riding Westward, Hymne to God my God, in my sicknesse, Batter my heart, This is my playes last scene

Drama or Film
Students choose one of the following texts and explore the ways in which it represents ideas.
Students explore the distinctive qualities of the text and the ways in which values may be
realised through production.
Drama
Marlowe, Christopher, Dr Faustus, Longman, 1984
Film
Welles, Orson, Citizen Kane, CEL, 1941

Nonfiction, Media or Multimedia
Speeches
Students who choose to study the speeches explore the ways ideas are articulated in the
prescribed texts. They explore the distinctive qualities of each of the speeches and the ways
different audiences shape meaning. Students reflect on the values implied in different
responses and in rhetoric itself.
Board of Studies website: http://www.boardofstudies.nsw.edu.au
Socrates No evil can happen, 399 BC; Cicero Among us you can dwell no longer, 63
BC; Abraham Lincoln Government of the people, by the people, for the people, 1863;
Emma Goldman The political criminal of today must needs be a saint of the new age,
1917; Martin Luther King I have a dream, 1963; Denise Levertov Statement for a
Television Program, 1972; Margaret Atwood Spotty-Handed Villainesses, 1994; Vaclav
Havel A Contaminated Moral Environment, 1990; Paul Keating Funeral Service of the
Unknown Australian Soldier, 1993; Noel Pearson An Australian history for us all, 1996;
Aung San Suu Kyi Keynote Address at the Beijing World Conference on Women 1995;
Mary McAleese, The Defence of Freedom, 1998.

Multimedia
In their responding and composing, students explore the ways ideas are represented in one of
the following multimedia texts. Students reflect on the significance and effect of its changing
form and substance. They identify and question the effects of devices that define the borders
and the paths through texts and consider how these shape meaning. Students choose one of
the following texts.
ATSIC website: http://www.atsic.gov.au
The sections of the site set for study are:
About ATSIC
Classroom
Law and Justice
Issues
ATSIC Service Charter.
In the year before the commencement of the HSC course, final details of the site
sections will be given. This information will be published in the July edition of the
Board Bulletin.
Larsen, Deena, Samplers: Nine Vicious Little Hypertexts (for Macintosh or Windows)
Eastgate Systems Inc. http://www.eastgate.com, 1998
Nonfiction
In their responding and composing, students explore the ways ideas are expressed in the
prescribed text and in its historical and cultural contexts. Students consider different readings
of the text and the values implied by those readings.
Chang, Jung, Wild Swans, Flamingo, 1992

If you have an issue with one text, do another. That is why there are the many choices - not everyone can do every text.

If your school won't listen, then it's your school's problem, not the Board's as they've provided options.

Edit: and Donne is a pain in the bum no matter whether or not you're Christian. People I know (some of whom are very religious and others who aren't) all had trouble especially with the religious references.

 

[Gra_na_Rince]

I think they should be kept

I personally think they should be kept. Not because I'm Christian, or that I attend a Catholic school.

I think they should be kept not for religious purposes, nor to give unfair disadvantages to those who are not christian.

But what about the all important CONTEXT that we have to write about, and understand, when interpreting a text??? isnt that a major component of understanding the perspective of the composer - why they wrote things, when and how they were included???

Wild Swans, by very bad memory, has reference to chinese culture. This is part of the context, and when writing an essay, is vital to include.

The texts we study dont rely soley around a religious context - there is much variety.
But I dont agree that they should be removed entirely.

 

[Amish]

is there seriously n e one out there that agrees with the original post... If so please speak up.... All i can say is being we live in australia with probably more religions and ethnic diversity then anywhere else in the world shouldnt we all make an effort to understand each others religions a little... I do get what your saying about how you didnt understand it..hell neither did I...but then again how many people all together got it without reading the explinations and what nots. Owe and one more thing...isnt English based from England who for many years were only christian believers pretty much....other religions write in there own languages....I dont quite see how those poems in Hindi or whatever can be done in english.....But please someone out there defend the man

 

[sneaker]

well according to primary and secondary syllabuses, every student in NSW has to have completed at least 240 hours of a religious based course in 7-10 and k-6 whether it be reading fables, the bible or going to church it shouldn't be a problem since it is only the basics that are alluded to.

If your argument is to stand, ask yourself how fair it is for people who don't do Ancient History, who study Julius Caesar, and those studying Julius Caesar in english. There's an unfair advantage. And also in one of gwen harwood's poem, a large proportion of it is based on King Lear. If you don't study King lear then there's another unfair advantage.

While yes, I agree there are annoying aspects of the syllabuses, there's no point in having an attack over religion on the grounds that it is a controversial topic area.

 

[Toodulu]

personally i don't think we should remove religious texts, but i can see where jm1234567890 is coming from. christians will generally be more open to the religious ideas in the text while some of the other students might find it hard to grasp the concepts before beginning to interpret them. however we should be mature enough to study texts that we might not necessarily agree with, because agreeing with it is not the point of the course. religious writings are a big part of western literature so to take it out of the syllabus seems rather silly.

 

[White Rabbit]

You've got to be kidding, right? I don't understand shakespear - maybe that should be removed because I wasn't brought up in a home where reading classics and all that was pushed. My brother happens to be very talented in Maths/programming and all that shit - partly due to natural ability and party to do with our dad's interest in the field, he was exposed to it at a young age and was learning about it all at a young age. I don't deny he has an advantage because Dad was teaching him all this at a young age and was brought up with it - but what do we do about it? pull out all maths/computering courses because some kids have an advantage over another? That doesn't seem very fair, now does it? Should 'Frontline' be removed from the course due to it's definitive Australian humor/sarcasim? Unless you understand 'aussie humor', you won't get much of it - but then, thats the whole point of studying it.

It doesn't matter which course your in, your bound to find kids with advantages over others - is it fair? I see nothing wrong with it. People like you, quite frankly shit me.

In year 8, I had to do Arabic as a language - and with it came learning about the middle eastern culture and dominant reglion. Did I enjoy it? Not really, but then I hate learning any language. Did I kick up a fuss that the huge majority of middle eastern kids in my year had a HUGE advantage over me and my mates? pffft, no. I lived with it. It may have only been year 8, but thats not the point.

No offence to anyone, but the dominant religion in this country is Christianity (around 75%, accroding to the CIA factfile. And before I get attacked over these figures, remember that there is more to Australia than the cultural centres on Sydney and Melbourne, and you'll find just about everyone living in rural and regional australia are Christians, sans a fair ammount of Aborigionals and TSI's.) I'm not saying that you should take it on; nor am I saying that you should agree with it, however, the BOS tends to the needs of the majority, not a the vocal minorty of a minority group. (if that makes sense...ah, it did to me )

Although, when it comes down to it, I really don't think this is about religion - it's about whinners such as yourself, that complain about everything and anything in a sweep for extra marks. The syllabus isn't gonna change because you have issues with it - just live with it and stop being such a sook. Can't stand people like you who have to argue everything..

 

[Paisley]

Three cheers for AsyLum... hip hip hip...

 

[Chand]

hurray...or should i say yalla (sp?? its arabic)

 

[Bob the Tomato]

i do beleive i shall join the line of people waiting to hammer this guy. im a christian and dont want to force anyone to accept my beliefs (ps. if we are right than you will all go to hell ), but this is ridiculous. it doesnt matter if you had no understanding to begin with. your TEACHER should have taught you it, thats what they get paid for. and besides, one of the main critics says that they ARE NOT christian writings.

 

[Chand]

good pnt, bob the tomato

 

[Newbie]

im willing to defend this guy

he had valid argument

students of that religious background are automatically placed at an advantage. Whether this will translate into better marks is not important so much as that particular person has had a head start. If HSC was to ensure fairness in procedure, then it would leave the religious stuff in Studies of Religion.

anyone wana join my team? before i get swamped by the mormons?

 

[Bl@h]

I would have to agree with all those in this debate arguing against the original comment:
"To put texts such as "Hymne to god my god in my sicknesse" by john donne is simply unfair to people who are not christian!!!!!"

I dont want to resort to mere mockery as others in this debate have done but mate i think you are just trying to find an excuse for your lazyness based on religious/ideological beliefs.

I am not an existentialist yet i still have to study an existentialist response to King Lear. It would be absurd to suggest that one should remove texts from the syllabus based on the composers beliefs. Isn't a large chunk of the course got to do with looking at the CONTEXT and VALUES of the composer. What kind of study could we undertake without texts that represent a variety of values? It appears you just dont wish to analyse a text and wish to have things spoon fed to you. This is a no-goer for the HSC. A bit of advice stop bitching and get on with it do your task write your best and hopefully be happy with the end result.

And FYI i am a Christian but this has not stopped me reading and analysing books that take a different theological approach to that of my own, from Toaism to Buddhism to outright atheism (spelling please??)

Good luck every1 in trials etc

 

[Lethargist]

Originally posted by Newbie


students of that religious background are automatically placed at an advantage. Whether this will translate into better marks is not important so much as that particular person has had a head start. If HSC was to ensure fairness in procedure, then it would leave the religious stuff in Studies of Religion.

Does this mean that we shouldn't study any texts that weren't written in the past couple of years because it gives people doing history an advantage?

We shouldn't study Cicero because people doing ancient history have an advantage?

It's about understanding the composers PURPOSE and CONTEXT.
You don't necessarily need to know WHAT the composer is saying so much as WHY.

I do economics, so i understood about the ACCC before i studied it in legal. Should the ACCC be removed from the syllabus?

In physics, i have a huge advantage over most of my class, because i knew all about radioisotopes from chem before we studied them. Should we pretend that radioisotopes don't really exist in physics to ensure that it is fair.

Religion is a part of english, like it or not. The predominant religion in Australia is Christianity, like it or not. A composer will use religious examples because that is what the target audience will relate to. DEAL WITH IT. I can't relate to the sort of discrimination that black people experienced in the 1900's (and before)... (and now :-( ), but that doesn't mean that we should remove Martin Luther King's speech from the syllabus.

By the way, I am an athiest, so am completely uninfluenced by religion when i make this statement

 

[hipsta_jess]

i think they should be, and i am sorta christan, but i only think they should be pulled because there are so many other religions out there and these texts go against their beleifs, and could quite easily offend people...not because certain people would have advantages over certain other people
speaking of which, how to people that go to catholic/other religious schools study biology, coz of the whole evolution theory and all?

 

[AsyLum]

Originally posted by White Rabbit
You've got to be kidding, right? I don't understand shakespear - maybe that should be removed because I wasn't brought up in a home where reading classics and all that was pushed. My brother happens to be very talented in Maths/programming and all that shit - partly due to natural ability and party to do with our dad's interest in the field, he was exposed to it at a young age and was learning about it all at a young age. I don't deny he has an advantage because Dad was teaching him all this at a young age and was brought up with it - but what do we do about it? pull out all maths/computering courses because some kids have an advantage over another? That doesn't seem very fair, now does it? Should 'Frontline' be removed from the course due to it's definitive Australian humor/sarcasim? Unless you understand 'aussie humor', you won't get much of it - but then, thats the whole point of studying it.

It doesn't matter which course your in, your bound to find kids with advantages over others - is it fair? I see nothing wrong with it. People like you, quite frankly shit me.

In year 8, I had to do Arabic as a language - and with it came learning about the middle eastern culture and dominant reglion. Did I enjoy it? Not really, but then I hate learning any language. Did I kick up a fuss that the huge majority of middle eastern kids in my year had a HUGE advantage over me and my mates? pffft, no. I lived with it. It may have only been year 8, but thats not the point.

No offence to anyone, but the dominant religion in this country is Christianity (around 75%, accroding to the CIA factfile. And before I get attacked over these figures, remember that there is more to Australia than the cultural centres on Sydney and Melbourne, and you'll find just about everyone living in rural and regional australia are Christians, sans a fair ammount of Aborigionals and TSI's.) I'm not saying that you should take it on; nor am I saying that you should agree with it, however, the BOS tends to the needs of the majority, not a the vocal minorty of a minority group. (if that makes sense...ah, it did to me )

Although, when it comes down to it, I really don't think this is about religion - it's about whinners such as yourself, that complain about everything and anything in a sweep for extra marks. The syllabus isn't gonna change because you have issues with it - just live with it and stop being such a sook. Can't stand people like you who have to argue everything..

Originally posted by Paisley
Three cheers for AsyLum... hip hip hip...

lol just checking back on this and it seems that it still overwhlemingly against...hehe...sorry dude i didnt meant to sound like an absolute d--khead...but yeah i laid out the facts and my opinion..all i can sya is good luck to all!

 

[spunkycheezle]

SNEAKER
"well according to primary and secondary syllabuses, every student in NSW has to have completed at least 240 hours of a religious based course in 7-10 and k-6 whether it be reading fables, the bible or going to church it shouldn't be a problem since it is only the basics that are alluded to. "

excuse me but thats a load of nonsense... mandatory religious based course?? i dont think so! what about the people who are atheists and dont want their children participating in any form of regligious learning... I think that some ppl here have a serious superiority complex, just becasue you enjoy making pointlessly verbose statments DOESNT MAKE THEM TRUE!!!

 

[AsyLum]

Originally posted by spunkycheezle
excuse me but thats a load of nonsense... mandatory religious based course??

there is a great debate to what exactly isnt influenced by religion in todays society, despite everything the actual influence of religion is quite strong, especially in a country which has many differing cultures and religions...

but that would be a long drawn out debate and i have trials tomorrow

 

[tieki]

Should all non-Christian texts be removed, then, because it gives the non-Christians an advantage?

Just a thought...

 

[veg]

i see the point to this poll, but everyone's in the same boat.

religion doesn't really mean that you know all the english-y things about texts. you just have an understanding of them... and there's not really much to grasp.

it's like frontline... i never watched an episode until we saw them in class, when everyone around us watched em all already.

 

[um name please]

Hello, I just read most of the posts (the ones with the interesting pictures were the best)
But just a word of advice, I rekon it is great to have opinons and dreams of making the world better, go for it. . . but only if your making the world better for others. You see JM you should quit being selfish. people who complain, end up making signs, out of cardboard, that say. . .
"spare a poor guy a dollar."
I know a bit about psycology, and selfishesness begins a downward spiral in all areas of your life.
the best adive ever received by me was this. . .
'grit your teeth and push on. . .you gotta do what you gotta do"
In 9 weeks or so you may never need to care about contexts and juxtaposition, unless you choose to, just like you will never read a religous book again . . .unless you want to.
So just do you HSC, dont ask questions . . . answer them.
do ya best you can mate