Scurvy the new scourge of uni life (1 Viewer)

[thorrnydevil]

What's wrong with staying at a catered college? Of course the college's may not provide food, but that should be a factor when considering which university!

 

[withoutaface]

"Originally Posted by neo_o in the other thread that is exactly the same as this that you posted
Perhaps it's time to get a part time job then? University + University study don't take up more than 30-35 hours a week including transport unless you're in your honours year, so most students have plenty of time to at least be working 5-10 hours a week."

Actually this semester I was at uni for 30 hours a week (including breaks), 5 days a week and spent 1 1/2 (conservative estimate) getting there and back each day, so that amounts to approximately 45 hours a week, ignoring the fact that if I was a diligent student I'd actually be doing some work at home as well.

 

[braindrainedAsh]

You can survive off YA + RA + 236 a fortnight..... but just. It also depends on how much your rent is (so basically where you go to uni).... but in regional areas and "uni towns" it can be really hard to find a part time job... so many students, so few jobs.

YA + RA depends on whether you are independent or dependent, and how much your rent it. Go to the centrelink website for the tables.

Plus students who are on Austudy (full time students over 25) do not recieve rent assistance, and hence can be up to $80 a fortnight worse off than students on YA. The payment rate is the same, so is the earnings threshold. Why would you be less likely to need help with rent if you are over 25? It makes no sense.


But I think people here are speaking without any real understanding of
a) What it costs to live away from home to go to uni (in some cases)
b) The costs students who are FULLY self supporting are facing (as in, they have no family support to buy textbooks, help them out if they are in trouble etc)
c) The difficulties for some groups to get youth allowance even though they need it.
d) The inequities in the welfare system. E.g. the earnings threshold has not been raised since 1992, no RA for people on Austudy, the way income banking works means that you have to not earn money first to income bank so it doesn't work that well for some people, there are differences in the way YA is indexed, so the pension rises more rapidly than YA because they are indexed differently. Also disabled students now lose out on an education support payment thanks to this year's budget.

This isn't a media beat up. The information is out there, people are concerned, and people are facing problems. I did extensive research on this for an article I was writing, and it definately is a problem. You should read some of the submissions to the Senate Inquiry, they paint a clearer picture. http://www.aph.gov.au/Senate/committee/eet_ctte/studentincome04/submissions/sublist.htm

For most students today to study effectively they need;
-University fees (some students can defer this, others can't, plus there is your service fees, don't even start on VSU here there are other threads for that)
-Textbooks
-A computer (usually with internet connection)
-Telephone
-Electricity/Gas/Water
-A roof over their heads
-Food
-As well as other incidental costs (e.g. if you have a job, you might need to buy a uniform for work- there might be other costs for your course)

A lot of students can't afford all of this. It really adds up quickly, especially if you go to uni in an area where rent is high, or where it is difficult to find employment.

I think the two main problems with the current government income support are;
-The ways to qualify as an independent/be eligable for youth allowance- leaves some needy people out in the cold
-The earnings threshold is too low- it is a disincentive for students to work more hours because they don't really gain any financial benefit from it, they just lose study time. If people on YA could earn a bit more a week before the government started taking their payment away it would make it a fair bit easier for people. Plus, it would be better if the government allowed people to earn more before their payments were affected because then they wouldn't bother with cash in hand jobs, and would be paying tax on their earnings, so it isn't really a loss for the government...

To give some insight in to the situation, I will gladly reveal my finances to the world:

I only recently started getting youth allowance after working full time hours for the past year while studying in order to qualify for it, which wasn't fun.

I am a happy camper on youth allowance but that is due to a variety of reasons.

the full rate of independent YA+ RA (-tax)= $389.50
I lose some of that due to my earnings. At Coles, I work 14 hours a week. I earn $170 per week after tax, so $340 a fortnight. That reduces my YA payment though to about $240 per fortnight.

So my total income is $580 a fortnight.

My rent (which includes electricity/water etc and is right near uni so I have no transport costs) is $335 per fortnight. Next year I am finding somewhere with cheaper rent, but it's hard to find anything much cheaper near the city, and then you have to factor in transport costs anyway.

That leaves me with 245, or 122.50 a week to play with.

My phone bill= 15+ per week (phone is essential for a journo student!)
Internet= 10 per week
So that takes us down to 100 per week
Groceries is about 50 a week... hmm maybe a little more because stuff like shampoo, cleaner and stuff is expensive.
Anyway, these are all conservative estimates here. So say I have 50 per week left.

Sometimes I like to have a social life, so put aside 10 a week for that because I don't go out that often.

40 left.

Oh I forgot something.... laundry machines= 5 a week

35 left.

I try and save money for when incidentals pop up.... like textbooks etc. Plus I am trying to save for an overseas trip so I try and put at least 10-15 in my savings account a week.

So yeah, it is enough to get by... but YA makes me a happy camper because I am not working 43 hours a week anymore, so I can actually do work experience and try and get stuff published etc. I am comfortable living on YA + RA plus a reasonable amount of part time work which doesn't impact on my study.

But, for someone who is not as lucky as me to be able to find a job easily (or on Austudy where they would get $80 less a week) you can see how much harder it becomes. Or what about someone who doesn't have any help from mum and dad.... if I fuck up my budget one week and have $5 left in the bank and an important text book to buy mum and dad would send me cash (rarely ever happens, I hate asking them!!!) Others are not so lucky. Also, some people's courses demand a lot from them, they don't really have time to work much.

I cited my example to show that it doesn't take much difference in money between a student struggling and a student living ok.

Oh I have to address one more point:

You contend an asset rich farmer's child can not claim YA+RA, however from memory there is an exception made for farmers in the form which invalidates your argument. This aside I can not claim YA+RA yet I survive quite comfortably (with no parental support).

I do not know of such an exemption for farmers, however it isn't only farmers in rural/regional areas who are affected by the income poor/asset rich situation. Small business owners in regional towns can also face a similar problem. They may have many assets (such as a shop, a car, a house), but their business may not actually produce a great deal of profit, however these assets mean their kids are not eligible for YA. Even people who own a large property, but don't have a big income, can be ineligible.

Also, interestingly despite the Government recognising that families with a combined income of less than $37,500 are disadvantaged and qualify for the maximum Family Tax Benefit, it refuses to raise the threshold for the parental income test for full time students to get the dependent rate of youth allowance from $28,850. What are their measures of who is poor? Why do they draw the line at two entirely different amounts for different payments?


Anyway, enough of my rant, it's just that I have been reading heaps of information about all of this stuff lately and like to prove my point! If anyone has any actual numerical figures to the contrary, I would like to see them. Read some of the submissions to the senate inquiry for more figures and facts on the issue.

 

[supercharged]

As I said before, I you are finding money to be such a massive problem why not just defer for a year to save up some cash first or study and work part time?

Sure the degree takes longer to complete but at least you won't be so povo

 

[White Rabbit]

Go live on campus, away from home sunshine. See just how 'easy' it is. Also, with many people who live on campus, their home town job prospects are slim to none. They have nowhere to work in Gil or Willcannia or where ever they may be from. While I think the scurvy thing is over rated, (as many people choose by buy a case for Thursday nights over some fruit and veg) so many people judge everything by Sydney standards. When will you realise the world does not end at Penrith? People living in rural and regional areas are living a completley different life to you? Open your eyes and see whats beyond those mountains.

While I do manage on $330 a fornight ($210 to rent, $120 remain = $60 a week), it is hard and as I've said before - jobs are sparse in Bathurst.

Although, you don't need to spend $50+ a week on food. Budget and you can get it down to $20 or $30 a week.

 

[braindrainedAsh]

The problem with deferring and trying to save up is this.... if you live in some shithole town, it's really REALLY hard to find enough work to earn the money.... and if you have to move to find work you end up spending most of the money on living away from home anyway, so you may as well go to uni. If you want to earn enough to qualify as independant to get youth allowance and you are from a rural area it is a real bitch. Heaps of my friends deferred for a year and then places like coles, target, woolies, big dub CUT BACK their hours or didn't give them any extra hours because they would rather hire 15 year olds who are cheaper. If I had stayed in Albury I would have been hard pressed to find enough work to earn the money to qualify as independent, unlike in Sydney where there are a lot more places to work.

There are only so many pubs/restaurants and stuff to work at in smallish towns, especially places where there are lots of uni students like Wagga, Bathurst, Albury, Ballarat, Armidale etc... not enough part time jobs to go around.

I think a lot of people here are judging when they don't really have any clue what it is like to be outside of Sydney. Have you noticed the trend that it is the people who either come from outside Sydney or study outside Sydney who are on one side of the argument?

Some people... like White Rabbit and Lexi and the like.... are very good with their budgets and dedicated... a lot of people on here would be whinging if they only had $60 per week to spend and they still live with their parents.

I think the scurvy thing is probably more alcohol related than poverty related lol but there is still quite a big problem with student poverty. One of the local churches in Albury even gives students free meals on a Thursday night because so many of them are struggling to find work.

Also, if you study part time you lose any help you may be getting from the government.... plus in regional areas it can be hard to find a job full stop which is part of the problem.

 

[neo o]

"Originally Posted by neo_o in the other thread that is exactly the same as this that you posted
Perhaps it's time to get a part time job then? University + University study don't take up more than 30-35 hours a week including transport unless you're in your honours year, so most students have plenty of time to at least be working 5-10 hours a week."

Actually this semester I was at uni for 30 hours a week (including breaks), 5 days a week and spent 1 1/2 (conservative estimate) getting there and back each day, so that amounts to approximately 45 hours a week, ignoring the fact that if I was a diligent student I'd actually be doing some work at home as well.

But isn't the reason that you spend so much time on campus because you live at home with your parents - a while away from uni? Therefore you're in no need of any youth allowance, since your parents are covering for you.

 

[neo o]

The problem with deferring and trying to save up is this.... if you live in some shithole town, it's really REALLY hard to find enough work to earn the money.... and if you have to move to find work you end up spending most of the money on living away from home anyway, so you may as well go to uni. If you want to earn enough to qualify as independant to get youth allowance and you are from a rural area it is a real bitch. Heaps of my friends deferred for a year and then places like coles, target, woolies, big dub CUT BACK their hours or didn't give them any extra hours because they would rather hire 15 year olds who are cheaper. If I had stayed in Albury I would have been hard pressed to find enough work to earn the money to qualify as independent, unlike in Sydney where there are a lot more places to work.

Every single one of my friends from the country has managed it - I don't see why you should be any exception. I won't argue that there are higher rates of unemployment, particularly amoungst younger people in rural areas (It's about 17% in the Gong) but so be it and welcome to the real world. Centrelink covers you sufficiently until you can find a job.

Have you noticed the trend that it is the people who either come from outside Sydney or study outside Sydney who are on one side of the argument?

Both me and addymac go to the ANU, in Canberra. We've both made that point a few times in this thread. Do you just choose to ignore it?

Some people... like White Rabbit and Lexi and the like.... are very good with their budgets and dedicated... a lot of people on here would be whinging if they only had $60 per week to spend and they still live with their parents.

So?

I think the scurvy thing is probably more alcohol related than poverty related lol but there is still quite a big problem with student poverty. One of the local churches in Albury even gives students free meals on a Thursday night because so many of them are struggling to find work.

Churches are the best, but I don't see your point.

Also, if you study part time you lose any help you may be getting from the government....

BECAUSE IF YOU STUDY PART TIME AND DO 6 OR SO HOURS OF UNIVERSITY A WEEK YOU SHOULD BE WORKING!

plus in regional areas it can be hard to find a job full stop which is part of the problem.

And Centrelink covers you, almost exactly until you do.

 

[neo o]

You can survive off YA + RA + 236 a fortnight..... but just.

I don't know what you spend your money on, but any money that I raise besides YA and RA is spent on non essentials.

It also depends on how much your rent is (so basically where you go to uni).... but in regional areas and "uni towns" it can be really hard to find a part time job... so many students, so few jobs.

Again, me and addymac are in Canberra. We've both managed it. And with 4 universities (ANU, UC, ACU and the Royal Military College) in a town of a couple of hundred thousand Canberra is one heck of a uni town

Plus students who are on Austudy (full time students over 25) do not recieve rent assistance, and hence can be up to $80 a fortnight worse off than students on YA.

Because :

If they are undertaking full time study at 25, I'd expect that they would have earnt some money between leaving school and attending university. If not, they should have. Besides which, quite a few post graduate students receive employment directly from the university itself anyway.

The payment rate is the same, so is the earnings threshold. Why would you be less likely to need help with rent if you are over 25? It makes no sense.

See above. Note that they automatically qualify though - so they do get some advantages.

But I think people here are speaking without any real understanding of
a) What it costs to live away from home to go to uni (in some cases)

Xayma, Addymac and I all live away from home, who are you talking about per chance?

b) The costs students who are FULLY self supporting are facing (as in, they have no family support to buy textbooks, help them out if they are in trouble etc)

Both I and addymac are in that situation. I received A BURSARY to cover me and SCHOLARSHIPS are also available. Bursaries are as easy as all hell to get - you can get up to $500 and all you need to do is prove that you are in financial difficulty. Well, there goes the textbooks. Most universities have similar schemes.

c) The difficulties for some groups to get youth allowance even though they need it.

like?

For most students today to study effectively they need;
-University fees (some students can defer this, others can't, plus there is your service fees, don't even start on VSU here there are other threads for that)

Why shouldn't I start on about VSU? You made it quite clear that you support VSU, I'm quite suprised that you do since you see students as being so poor that they suffer from scurvy of all things.

-Textbooks

Bursaries, past savings etc.

-A computer (usually with internet connection)

IF a student is so strapped - there are heaps of free to use computers on any campus.

-Telephone

Non essential

Electricity/Gas/Water
-A roof over their heads

$120 - 220 a week. Anyone paying more is living beyond their means - bad luck to you. NB : College is much more expensive than renting off campus.

-Food

$40-$50 a week with cheap cuts of meat (mince and chicken). Anyone paying more is living beyond their means.

-As well as other incidental costs (e.g. if you have a job, you might need to buy a uniform for work- there might be other costs for your course)

Buying a uniform? FOR A JOB? These kind of cancel themselves out dont you think? Of course there are incidentals, but centrelink doesn't and shouldnt fucking cover these. Centrelink covers what you NEED. That is, rent and food. Centrelink keeps you alive - and it's up to you to go out and work if you want to pay anything off. If this means deferring for a year so you can pay your fees, so be it. Some people have to do it, but when you do you get centrelink.

THEREFORE, anyone who is "self supported" and isn't receiving centrelink and FOR SOME REASON CANT GET IT ON AN UNREASONABLE TO LIVE AT HOME ALLOWANCE WHICH IS AS EASY AS ALL FUCK TO GET BECAUSE LIVING AWAY FROM HOME IN THE FIRST PLACE IS ALMOST A DEAL BREAKER - they should have deferred a year, saved some money for the big costs and then raised enough for Centrelink. Tough shit if you can't get a job in a country town - everyone that I know from the Country managed. Even if you can't get a job in a town, rent in the city for a year. At the end of it if you're working a good week, you'll definately have a few thousand for pre-costs of uni, and would have earnt enough to get YA. EVEN IF YOU'RE PAYING RENT, WHILE YOU'RE WORKING EVEN PART TIME YOULL BE ABLE TO EARN 300 A WEEK WHICH WILL CLEAR YOU OF RENT - Youll live like a king in fact.

A lot of students can't afford all of this. It really adds up quickly, especially if you go to uni in an area where rent is high, or where it is difficult to find employment.

See above.

I think the two main problems with the current government income support are;
-The ways to qualify as an independent/be eligable for youth allowance- leaves some needy people out in the cold

Anyone who is "needy" can defer for a year and work. If they are in the country they can move to the city and work. They'll qualify at the end of the year with alot extra - rent etc.

-The earnings threshold is too low- it is a disincentive for students to work more hours because they don't really gain any financial benefit from it, they just lose study time. If people on YA could earn a bit more a week before the government started taking their payment away it would make it a fair bit easier for people. Plus, it would be better if the government allowed people to earn more before their payments were affected because then they wouldn't bother with cash in hand jobs, and would be paying tax on their earnings, so it isn't really a loss for the government...

STUDENTS EARN A FUCKLOAD IN CASH-IN-HAND JOBS, i.e. TUTORING. WHICH DONT AFFECT THEIR PAYMENTS.

I only recently started getting youth allowance after working full time hours for the past year while studying in order to qualify for it, which wasn't fun.

Deal with it. The government isn't there to support you when you don't want to work.

My phone bill= 15+ per week (phone is essential for a journo student!)
Internet= 10 per week
So that takes us down to 100 per week
Groceries is about 50 a week... hmm maybe a little more because stuff like shampoo, cleaner and stuff is expensive.
Anyway, these are all conservative estimates here. So say I have 50 per week left.

Sometimes I like to have a social life, so put aside 10 a week for that because I don't go out that often.

40 left.

Oh I forgot something.... laundry machines= 5 a week

35 left.

I try and save money for when incidentals pop up.... like textbooks etc. Plus I am trying to save for an overseas trip so I try and put at least 10-15 in my savings account a week.

So $35 spare after working a 15 hour week and buying non essentials. Seems alright to me? What are you whining about?

But, for someone who is not as lucky as me to be able to find a job easily

Yeah, they should try harder. Or they should have deffered.

(or on Austudy where they would get $80 less a week)

Those lucky ducks automatically qualify. Even if they didn't they are usually emplotyed by the university - and are adults with savings anyway.

you can see how much harder it becomes. Or what about someone who doesn't have any help from mum and dad.... if I fuck up my budget one week and have $5 left in the bank and an important text book to buy mum and dad would send me cash (rarely ever happens, I hate asking them!!!) Others are not so lucky. Also, some people's courses demand a lot from them, they don't really have time to work much.

I'm learning Chinese and doing a law course full time. I'm also doing a little German outside of university as a general interest. I haven't been working down here as of yet (since I worked alot during the post HSC break as a FARM/NURSERY HAND and before year 12 and because YA is so generous, I actually don't need to) and I get no support from my parents - but can still do eveything myself. It's how you spend your money, and obviously the people you're talking about are still trying to live the high life when they have no fucking money.

If anyone has any actual numerical figures to the contrary, I would like to see them.

I didn't see any from you, but hey my argument is sufficient to shoot you down anyway. What we have learnt today :

1) Students have no excuse for starving. While Centrelink doesn't cover uni fees or textbooks (why should they) they cover the essential costs of living : food (if you live reasonably and dont buy prime cuts of meat) and rent.

2) The elemination of union fees will aid poor students in attending university, since they can't afford to eat let alone pay union fees.

3) Students who can't afford textbooks etc should defer for a year, as should students who can't qualify for centrelink (though it's very easy) but want to study away from home. They should work and earn the minimum rate to get Centrelink. If they live in the country they should move to the city - as if they are prudent they will save some money for textbooks next year and earn more than the minimum rate anyway after rent.

4) Students can potentially earn huge amounts of money since tutoring and other cash in hand activities don't reduce their earnings.

 

[withoutaface]

I'm curious as to why someone who believes that university is unaffordable to them sees a need to have an overseas holiday.

Oh and neo_o you missed ADFA.

 

[neo o]

I'm curious as to why someone who believes that university is unaffordable to them sees a need to have an overseas holiday.

Oh and neo_o you missed ADFA.

ADFA = Royal Military College, they're on the same campus. So basically the same thing.

Oh, Incidentally. I had $1 beers at their bar a week or two ago

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Will people please stop posting this sort of crap? Lies + Deceptive tactics = People not trusting you (uws union was calling for people to fill out 10-20 forms per person about how much they love vsu, since u kno... they couldn't actually get that many people).

All that we're seeing is the generation of people who grew up getting playstations, x-boxes and whatever the hell they wanted, whenever they wanted, being placed in the real world.

 

[golfstick]

too many drugs and too much alcohol

not enough food

it's a choice

there is also an element of laziness in living off 2-minute noodles exclusively

 

[LadyBec]

I hate how everyone always says get a job. Its not that easy at all. For example, I babysat through highschool pretty much every day after school to earn money, plus on weekends I worked for my parents, who earn a small buisness. So officially i've never had a job, and the only thing I have any real experience at is looking after kids. This, combined with the fcat that I have no car (cant afford one) and Albury-wodonga being the little place it is has no public transport (trust me, sydneys is not NEARLY as bad as you think) makes it hard for me to find a job. Plus for every job that opens up, there are like 50 other desperate uni students who want it.
People always focus on the kids from regional areas who have to go a long way from home to uni, well im a city girl and I went to the country (to me, albury is the country, ok)im a 9 hour drive from home, and its costs like 100 bucks EACH WAY to get the train back. I havent seen my family in like 3 months, cos its too expensive.
I only brought 2 of my textbooks for the semester, the rest I either borrowed from the libaries at home, or read at the libary here.
I dont qualify for any government assistance, because my parents own a small business, and their income is kinda sus, and I survive on $140 a week, plus I scab about 50 extra a month of my parents. I almost never go out, and when I do I only have like one drink, cos they cost too much, and I only use my phone to prank people so they'll call me.
Honestly, It is possible, although hard to survive on very little money.
Oh and incidently, my parents can't really afford to pay for me to be here, but they love me and want the best for me, so they're making do. Which I think isn't really fair, as im an adult now, and shouldn't have to be completly dependent on them, but it's the way it is.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

You don't HAVE to go to uni...
Tell me LadyBec, why exactly should tax-payers (most of which probably never have or will go to uni), pay for your luxury even more-so?

 

[Generator]

Tell me, NTB, why is it that an education should be considered as being a 'luxury'? Are you trying to suggest that it should only be made available to those with the financial capacity to afford it?

 

[LadyBec]

I never said they should, NTB.
I said that they pay for other peope to, and that I don't qualify.
Although I wish they would, cos then I could move and get away from my creepy druggo housemate. But hopefully that'll happen next semester.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

No of course not, but given the current level of support for people in university perhaps they should stand on their own feet just a little bit more, eh?

I just don't think it's fair that someone who goes to uni and does a little study combined with some basic assignments (largely for their own benefit) get so much support... while people who go out into the workforce and make a living for themselves get taxed to pay for it.

 

[LadyBec]

um I do. well atually I dont, but my parents are funding it not the taxpayers.... the support is only there for people who qualify, and a lot of people dont. Plus a lot of people who dont need the money do.

 

[Xayma]

LadyBec so you are on a full fee place? If you are on a HECS place the taxpayer is still footing a large bill.