Should English be compulsory?? (2 Viewers)

[soloooooo]

I don't mind if it's compulsory, as long as the UAI/ATAR does't have to include two units of English. (ie. Literally your best 10 units)

It should still be included. Professionals need to be good at English.

 

[townie]

It should still be included. Professionals need to be good at English.

Wrong.

 

[Magical Kebab]

Gets asked so much.
Although I don't really like it, I value it's importance.

 

[Absolutezero]

Wrong.

Professionals should be good at it.

 

[soloooooo]

Wrong.

This is Australia, not China, India or another predominantly non English speaking country.

 

[townie]

Professionals should be good at it.

Wrong.

Professionals should be literate and should be able to write well to a variety of audiences.

Not once in my professional life though have I had to analyze a piece of work and identify what techniques it used to identify an abstract concept.

I don't believe English in the HSC teaches the skills that professionals need.

 

[Absolutezero]

Wrong.

Professionals should be literate and should be able to write well to a variety of audiences.

Not once in my professional life though have I had to analyze a piece of work and identify what techniques it used to identify an abstract concept.

I don't believe English in the HSC teaches the skills that professionals need.

Of course you haven't. That's not the intended effect of the course. They're a means to a ends, to achieve those literacy, comprehension and written abilities.

Whether it's currently successful or not is another matter.

 

[Shadowdude]

Wrong.

Professionals should be literate and should be able to write well to a variety of audiences.

Not once in my professional life though have I had to analyze a piece of work and identify what techniques it used to identify an abstract concept.

I don't believe English in the HSC teaches the skills that professionals need.

If you apply the same logic to maths, you miss the point.

Point of mathematics at school, I think, is to be a tool for clarity of thought, logic, and problem solving.

It's not so you can learn lovely properties about ellipses, or angles in circles, or how to solve certain equations, etc.

 

[townie]

If you apply the same logic to maths, you miss the point.

Point of mathematics at school, I think, is to be a tool for clarity of thought, logic, and problem solving.

It's not so you can learn lovely properties about ellipses, or angles in circles, or how to solve certain equations, etc.

Maths isn't compulsory (and nor should it be). I'm not saying English isn't a worthwhile subject to do (despite its flaws) but I don't think people should be forced to do it.

Even if it did teach skills for useful for professionals, not everybody wants to or needs to be a professional.

 

[russ3l]

I don't know about you guys, but the way I perceived English was not about the grammar (obviously), nor the way of writing an essay. And although these 2 skills are necessary, there's another important skill this subject teaches you that is far greater than the aforementioned ones: it is the way you can find meaning behind things.
Take this forum for example, there has been a ridiculous amount of sarcasm and humourous assertions, only to express their views on English. So therefore my answer is yes it should be compulsory and yes it should count towards your atar due to how important it is. By finding meanings/motivations behind things, I would accurately presume that: business deals would go smoother and patients of the medical profession will be easily dealt with (and another example, section 2 of the umat)! So, in turn, by finding meanings behind things, we are essentially saving lives due to how crucial it is.

 

[townie]

I don't know about you guys, but the way I perceived English was not about the grammar (obviously), nor the way of writing an essay. And although these 2 skills are necessary, there's another important skill this subject teaches you that is far greater than the aforementioned ones: it is the way you can find meaning behind things.
Take this forum for example, there has been a ridiculous amount of sarcasm and humourous assertions, only to express their views on English. So therefore my answer is yes it should be compulsory and yes it should count towards your atar due to how important it is. By finding meanings/motivations behind things, I would accurately presume that: business deals would go smoother and patients of the medical profession will be easily dealt with (and another example, section 2 of the umat)! So, in turn, by finding meanings behind things, we are essentially saving lives due to how crucial it is.

That's the most moronic thing I've read today.

 

[russ3l]

That's the most moronic thing I've read today.

I'm in year 10, I have an excuse. Also, did you do well in the subject? A lot only hate it because they don't understand why they get such low marks.

 

[townie]

I'm in year 10, I have an excuse. Also, did you do well in the subject? A lot only hate it because they don't understand why they get such low marks.

I got in the mid 80's

I don't hate english I just don't think it should be compulsory.

 

[4025808]

Biggest debate posed by many HSC students today.

As for me, I think it should be compulsory, but there defs needs to be some changes. Doing 1K word, 40 minute essays will not improve your critical thinking skills at all. It may teach you how to think on your feet as to moulding essays to suit the question, but it definitely doesn't teach you how to think about setting up an argument on your feet properly. Being able to think on your feet is a very crucial skill in life, but HSC English just doesn't do it right.

 

[elissajean]

YES English needs to be compulsory, but I have several issues with the way we do things here. We need to have a strong literacy and numeracy program running in every primary school and re-educate parents to understand that it is absolutely vital that their children learn to read (and write basics) before they go to school. I also think we need to have a more rigid system that refuses to move students into the next grade level until they have met specific (and decent) literacy standards. If this were the case, I think teachers would be more inclined to give the extra support to students who needed it than they do now - I remember speaking to a teacher last year about out 'stage' system, and it turns out students at the end of a stage can be passed by teachers based on outcomes for the early year in that stage (e.g. year 8 students can be passed based on fulfilling the basic outcomes from year 7). This is extremely lazy and shows a lack of care for the students - but if they didn't have that option of passing the students, teachers would be forced to do better. If we changed the system and also integrated English more effectively into all fields of education I think it would be fine to have it as an elective subject in year 12, or as a compulsory subject that isn't necessarily going to be counted towards the ATAR. Also, I think University entrance should be focused more on the marks you got in related subjects - maths and science for Medicine, for example, and English and Social Studies subjects for Arts and Humanities. But hey, we hate change.

 

[someth1ng]

Well, the question is, do we NEED to make English compulsory.

In short, yes, we do - not because it's the most important subject (and it isn't) but because you MUST have a benchmark, a scale, where you compare all students and use it as a standard for scaling purposes.

 

[Naz1234]

I think English should be compulsory, but shouldn't count in the HSC. During my HSC period,
a vast majority of students hated the subject and hence obtain lower grades. This was probably a big demotivating factor.

English is important. Using techniques, writing essay's and thesis's are VERY important for whatever coarse you do later on in Uni, TAFE, college etc etc.

Its just, that English teachers should 1) teach students why they are studying English and why it is important. This should be constant, because if you get away from the core purpose of studying for English, it becomes a huge burden to get above average grades and 2) give students freedom to write and allow them to understand that English is all about their opinions, perceptions and idea's. It is not about writing essay's and memorizing them. It is not about writing essay's because you are required to. But rather about trying to get your idea's and opinions into life. Which is ultimately what a large percentage of life is composed of. Expressing your opinion.

 

[brent012]

Well, the question is, do we NEED to make English compulsory.

In short, yes, we do - not because it's the most important subject (and it isn't) but because you MUST have a benchmark, a scale, where you compare all students and use it as a standard for scaling purposes.

If that is the only argument then i guess you are against it being forced to be counted as part of everyones ATAR? I personally see it all as a neccesary evil, including it being counted in the 10 best units. But i think the fact that it's compulsory has resulted in a pretty bland course - i feel that if English were not compulsory the board might be forced to freshen up English to attract students.

 

[someth1ng]

If that is the only argument then i guess you are against it being forced to be counted as part of everyones ATAR? I personally see it all as a neccesary evil, including it being counted in the 10 best units. But i think the fact that it's compulsory has resulted in a pretty bland course - i feel that if English were not compulsory the board might be forced to freshen up English to attract students.

Well, the things about it being forced with ATAR prevent students from over-specialising too early such as picking 3 sciences and 4U mathematics. English forces those students to be more rounded (slightly).

Another thing is that international students would be forced to do English, disadvantaging them - otherwise, many of them would take the top ranks.

 

[kaz1]

English is important. Using techniques, writing essay's and thesis's are VERY important for whatever coarse you do later on in Uni, TAFE, college etc etc.

umm no