Suburban Spies (1 Viewer)

[Generator]

Mailbox stuffers could soon glean personal information
The World Today - Tuesday, 23 May , 2006 12:38:00
Reporter: Simon Lauder


ELEANOR HALL: There's bad news today for anyone who's sick of sifting through reams of junk mail every time they check the letterbox.

Soon the mailbox stuffers won't just be leaving catalogues, they'll be taking away any information they can glean about you from peering into your front yard.

That information could include what type of car you drive, whether you own pets and the condition of your house, as Simon Lauder reports.

SIMON LAUDER: What can be seen of your lifestyle from the street? Do you have pets? Do you have children? Does your fence need a lick of paint? The answers to these questions are a potential goldmine to the direct marketing industry.

And now one marketing company, PMP, plans to provide that sort of information to advertisers.

It's giving its catalogue deliverers, or "walkers", Global Positioning tracking technology as they pound the pavement of your suburban street.

Brian Evans is the Chief Executive of PMP.

BRIAN EVANS: We would be saying to our walkers, not today, but in time, that obviously they will be able to collect data for us as they walk around the neighbourhoods. We would be looking at collecting some data in the sense of, you know, the area that they're walking in, whether houses need painting in that area. So obviously we could actually say let's say a particular suburb there are more houses needing painting than others, we could say to advertisers, look this is a prime area for you to look at to get response, because obviously this area actually has more older houses, etc., etc.

SIMON LAUDER: What about things like seeing what people have on their clothesline?

BRIAN EVANS: Definitely not. We're not talking about looking at anything personal here at all, it's not that at all. It's just gathering some basic data that says this is a good area for promotion for dog food, for instance.

SIMON LAUDER: Information about your pets isn't exactly classified, but the Australian Privacy Foundation is still worried by the marketing world's newest tool.

Vice Chairman David Vaile says there aren't any legal boundaries for catalogue delivery people also employed to gather household data.

DAVID VAILE: Well, it depends what they're doing. If you think they're stalking you, then there are laws against stalking. And if you think they're a burglar with intent to commit a crime, then you might want to call the police.

SIMON LAUDER: Mr Vaile says the Federal Government clampdown on telemarketing has encouraged new more forms of marketing research, but he says this one won't be popular.

DAVID VAILE: It sort of breaks the … what remains of the trust that everybody has about who the people are out in the street and what are they doing. And even if they are working for the marketing organisations, what are they going to do with the information?

SIMON LAUDER: But the fact is you don't need someone's permission to have a look at whether or not they need paint, new paint on their house, or a new roof, or a new car, do you?

DAVID VAILE: Well, in a similar sort of area you don't need someone's permission to ring them up, but the Government has reacted to sort of consumer outrage over the telemarketing practices to bring in a new do not call register. I think this will be an area like that, where you know, somebody who's got no particular interests about you makes an observation about your house, that's one thing, but if you're getting basically trained spies wondering around snooping on all sorts of different things and reporting back to some sort of unknown source about who knows what, about what they can observe about you and your lifestyle and your family and your pets, then I think that's going too far and will need to be regulated.

SIMON LAUDER: Brian Evans from his PMP says the "walkers" who deliver your advertising material aren't about to turn into spies.

The company's clients include major department stores and fast food franchises. But Mr Evans says details of what exactly they'll be looking at are still being finalised.

What kind of boundaries would you put on walkers, in terms of where they have to draw the line in looking at houses?

BRIAN EVANS: Well, look, quite clearly they will be only given a brief of what's expected of them to … all they do is push a button by the way to say that this house has got a dog or this house has got three cars, or whatever we choose it to be. That's it. They're not collecting anything but that.

SIMON LAUDER: So they won't be peering over fences, or around gates?

BRIAN EVANS: Of course not.

SIMON LAUDER: And what about concerns with Australia's privacy laws? Do you have any?

BRIAN EVANS: No, look, quite clearly whatever the laws are we will always abide by them.

SIMON LAUDER: Would the information only be used by PMP, or would you sell it to other marketing companies?

BRIAN EVANS: Like, the issue is that research that we have through our research company now is sold to a number of companies, and data is always shared.

ELEANOR HALL: And that's Brian Evans from PMP marketing, ending that report from Simon Lauder.


Source: The World Today (ABC Online)

Market research is being taken to a new level, it seems.

What are your thoughts? Too invasive? A to be expected progression?

 

[walrusbear]

far too invasive
does anyone like this kind of shit?

 

[Iron]

Hmm... I can see a new market for dirty great big concrete fences.

 

[ccmariners4life]

i dont realy care. theres always going to be junk mail.

 

[loquasagacious]

From a cost-benefit standpoint I cant see this being worthwhile....

To train and issue the GPS/Data logging system to the walkers would be very expensive. Whereas the data gleaned would be minimal and could be more cheaply obtained through other means.

eg council records could tell marketers the age of houses (and thus liklihood of needing painting), council records would also reveal the number and type of pets, the RTA records show say how many cars per house, ABS data can reveal how many people per house, how old and their ethnic background.

I just dont see this taking off it would be far more cost effective and yield better results to mine existing data.

 

[Generator]

I just dont see this taking off it would be far more cost effective and yield better results to mine existing data.

... which is what they would do if such databases were publicly (or commercially) available, addymac.

 

[xeuyrawp]

As if they'd even have to do it via such a technological route - they could make a little machine that punches / types codes onto something like printer calculator receipt.

Pizzahut staff use the most efficient system of codes, these people could do exactly the same thing.

About it being an invasion of privacy, I really don't care. They can't get any more information that anyone else walking outside my house, and as long as they don't contact me with spam in the post box (otherwise, I'll run out my front door in underwear and a Roman helmet, swinging my katana), I don't care. *shrugs*

 

[loquasagacious]

... which is what they would do if such databases were publicly (or commercially) available, addymac.

Given the plethora of statistics around I would suggest that much of this information in available....

From my memory of commerce census data is available, car data could be stripped from dealership and insurer records. FOI requests might even get some.

As far as the privacy question goes as Rob alludes it would seem that anything that can be reasonably seen from the footpath is in the public domain.

And if you accept that data will be collected in some manner then like this is less disruptive to you than conventional market research of calling you.

 

[Generator]

Yes, much of that information is currently available, but not in so specific a form, and no FOI request would lead to the release of available household-level statistics for commercial gain.

"it would seem that anything that can be reasonably seen from the footpath is in the public domain" is problematic in that it assumes that the objective footpath and its bounds will be observed at all times. Also, what exactly does "seen from the footpath" mean? Does it refer to a glance on the move, or does it refer to a more comprehensive assessment?

As for the final point, it may not be as disruptive, but it's just as invasive and it is suggestive of a more sinister approach to the collection of market data. Yes, other intrusive means of collection exist, but few of them 'threaten' the household in such a literal sense.

 

[loquasagacious]

The marketers are not after household level data, it has no use, they are after suburb level data. The collection of household data is merely to enable the calculating of aggregate data. Hence it makes sense to bypass this cumbersome process and use pre-existing data.

'Seen from the footpath' must logically mean anything that can be seen from a standing position, with the naked eye, from a public area. To define otherwise is absurd as it would be to suggest that you can only look at a persons house when you are travelling at more than 4km/h and turn your body no more than 43 degrees to look. The naked eye restriction precludes any technology that may enable viewing beyond what is expected (and tacitly accepted) by the home residents. The standing height precludes the climbing of trees etc to gain a vantage point allowing for a normally unatainable view.

Also as a note here introducing restrictions such as you seem to envisage may affect policing eg is it searching without a warrant if a police officer stops and looks at your house???

 

[Generator]

...

Actually, I can see how you might think that (you're now an alarmist, after all), but no, I'm not suggesting that restrictions be put in place beyond those that already exist. I'm merely worried about the way in which this method could be abused (intentionally or not).

 

[loquasagacious]

I dispute the alarmist charge, the policing issue was merely something that occured serrendipitously (sp?) to me as I recalled the introduction of thermal imaging technology among some US police forces and the suggestions that though it could detect a hydro-marijouna operation that this constituted a search without warrant.

Aside from which it is hardly alarmist to on the one hand use an extreme, this may just make things clearer and on the other to suggest the wider implications be understood rather a knee-jerk response made.

As far as abused I doubt this method will be used let alone abused, though in the event of its use abuse is unlikely as what incentive do walkers have to abuse it??? The pay-rate is shithouse and if you spend time snooping then you will be taking longer which will further reduce your already low hourly rate. Infact given this there is far more of an incentive for walkers to cheat and somehow fabricate data (the likely reason for GPS as opposed to some other method).

 

[Justin]

You can't really stop it?

You can only ignore the crap that they send you. If everyone did, they wouldn't send it out.

 

[leetom]

(otherwise, I'll run out my front door in underwear and a Roman helmet, swinging my katana)

But that is totally historically inaccurate, you can't combine a Roman helmet with a katana.

And doing so will only enable the 'walker' to glean information on your interest in historical items from the Classical period, and you will be targeted for the marketing of ancient gladii and pila!

 

[Serius]

This is bullshit, i dont want faggots staring at my house and assessing my lifestyle

"oh looks like his car is dirty" next day i have some fuckwit in a business suit advertising to wash my car. Advertising doesnt really work on me, because if i want my car washed, i will find someone who i want to do it, i am not going to give the job to the first idiot who spys on my property.

It means you have more bullshit coming around, like door to door pet product sellers and shit like that

 

[loquasagacious]

Oh and generator I would contend that your stance on the issue is alarmist making you perhaps hypocritical.

Afterall it seems a tad alarmist to compare market research to espionage

 

[Generator]

Oh and generator I would contend that your stance on the issue is alarmist making you perhaps hypocritical.

Afterall it seems a tad alarmist to compare market research to espionage

So I'm an alarmist for stating the obvious by noting that there are privacy issues at stake, yet you are just following a line of thought by suggesting that my concerns may pose serious issues for the role of the police force?

Eh, I think that it would be fair to say that we both think that the other is prone to alarmist claims whenever it suits their argument. Whether that's actually the case, though, is the question.

 

[loquasagacious]

I would go as far as to say that everyone is prone to some alarmism/hyperbole when it suits their argument