Suicide in Australia (1 Viewer)

[davin]

however, i don't think that those are neccessarily the same group that need to be reached out to most.
i think there are two groups to keep in mind, those that actually want to kill themselves because they feel, one way or another, that they should.
the second is those that want attention or help, and so they try to get attention somehow. these are the sort that will talk a lot about being suicidal, for example. to get attention and/or help.

 

[davin]

i'd also figure taht suicide is noticed more in countries where other causes of death have been removed..... there's no big danger of famine or disease in the west, traditionally big killers, nor are there issues with crime or warfare like some countries have

 

[Ellie_Belly]

i don't think this is a thing that gov't can just throw money at and fix. beyond it not actually effecting people, i'd also wonder how many people don't even make it known until they do. i know when I was at my most suicidal points years back, i really kept it private and to myself without letting it be known because i didn't want other people to be dealing or interfereing with it. certainly no way i'd have gone somewhere for some sort of 'help'

I think that's the main problem - would a suicidal person want help? Most likely not. That's what makes it so difficult.

 

[Ellie_Belly]

ofcourse thats my position, how did you know what my degree was? Its definetely the best short term fix i can think of.
Really though we should be fixing whats wrong with the world so people dont get depressed about it, not fixing them when they have a normal human reaction to society

Serius, I'm with you about fixing what's wrong with the world - though that's very difficult.
But, I don't think suicide is a normal reaction. Maybe you been understandable, coz sometimes I can understand why a person would want to do that to themselves. But I don't think that it is normal.

 

[55078]

how do you know that? the difference between developed nations, is that all the suicides are known , but in undeveloped countries sucides are not recorded, found etc or known.

japan is pretty hectic with suicidies that they have introduced suicide pills.

Oh ok, fair enough. But I think that in our society we're bred to be very selfish and ego-centric human beings; and I feel that one would, to some degree, have to be fairly self-absorbed if they were to go through with commiting suicide. There's also that whole issue of the consumerist desire to always want more and, hence, we're never quite satisfied with what we've got.

 

[55078]

i don't think ego has to do with it at all, at least not as a rule. heck, for me, i felt like i was being selfish still being alive, both as i felt liek a burden to my family, and because i couldn't justify why i was alive after a friend of mine was murdered

I've also been suicidal at points in my life and, yes, while I was deeply depressed I felt like a burden to my friends and family. But now, in hindsight, I can see that I was extremely self-involved. It wasn't an attention thing, but I certainly wasn't considering how it would affect the lives of others if I did choose to kill myself. So there's got to be at least a little bit of selfishness involved in suicide.

 

[Mongke]

ofcourse thats my position, how did you know what my degree was? Its definetely the best short term fix i can think of.
Really though we should be fixing whats wrong with the world so people dont get depressed about it, not fixing them when they have a normal human reaction to society

i thought so

i agree with you on that last one. short term its the best we can do. i suppose the government could help it by employing good psychologists for high wages, making an incentive to become one if thats your skill.

 

[55078]

yes suicide is selfish JUST LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE PEOPLE DO. I don't think there should be any blame placed on suicidal individuals for that reason. It's obviously quite tragic...

Of course they shouldn't be blamed! But I'm just trying to empathise with those people who can't see suicide as being anything more than an act of selfishness or a way to seek attention.

 

[Ellie_Belly]

i thought so

i agree with you on that last one. short term its the best we can do. i suppose the government could help it by employing good psychologists for high wages, making an incentive to become one if thats your skill.

I don't think our government cares, because there's no revenue in it for them.

Compare it to the road toll issue - they get more police out there to make the roads safer. The police make money booking people.

How would our government make money from helping suicidal people?

Cynical, but I suppose it could be true.

 

[Comrade nathan]

I find it ironic that peeople call suicide selfish, based on that other people will miss them. I'm assuming most people come to this arguement because of their own feelings if someone close to them died.

Well isn't this conclusion just as selfish because you put more importance on you missing someone, then the fact that some poor person has thought it best to kill themself?

 

[kimmi06]

I find it ironic that peeople call suicide selfish, based on that other people will miss them. I'm assuming most people come to this arguement because of their own feelings if someone close to them died.

I'm sure that could definately be a reason as to why people believe it is selfish, but I don't believe that makes the people left behind selfish for missing the person who has committed suicide. I find suicide selfish in the way that other people (eg terminally ill) would give anything to live, and these people who commit suicide are just snuffing out a precious commodity that was given to them. Yes, people will argue that the suicidal person was justified as they felt they had nothing to live for, but I personally believe no situation is ever so bad or dim that one should take their own life.

 

[HotShot]

I'm sure that could definately be a reason as to why people believe it is selfish, but I don't believe that makes the people left behind selfish for missing the person who has committed suicide. I find suicide selfish in the way that other people (eg terminally ill) would give anything to live, and these people who commit suicide are just snuffing out a precious commodity that was given to them. Yes, people will argue that the suicidal person was justified as they felt they had nothing to live for, but I personally believe no situation is ever so bad or dim that one should take their own life.

this someone similar to that euthanasia thread...

but yes sucide is selfish- euthanasia isnt on the other hand. remember you can affect someone else lives if you committ suicide. they might invested in you, and if fail, they will feel the blow.

 

[kimmi06]

this someone similar to that euthanasia thread...

but yes sucide is selfish- euthanasia isnt on the other hand. remember you can affect someone else lives if you committ suicide. they might invested in you, and if fail, they will feel the blow.

I haven't seen that thread yet. But you're exactly right about suicide, I agree. For the second time tonight actually, lol whats goin on there??

 

[Mongke]

I don't think our government cares, because there's no revenue in it for them.

Compare it to the road toll issue - they get more police out there to make the roads safer. The police make money booking people.

How would our government make money from helping suicidal people?

Cynical, but I suppose it could be true.

im also pretty cynical so ill agree.

i heard that New Zealand has the highest suicide rate in the world. this was from a study they did once... (counting on someone to provide link)

 

[davin]

personally, a big part of when i was suicidal was guilt because i didn't think it was right that i was alive after a friend of mine was murdered. it was the whole concept that it seemed unfair that got to me, just from a different angle.

How would our government make money from helping suicidal people?

Cynical, but I suppose it could be true.

taxes

 

[crazyhomo]

taxes

exactly, do you really believe the government gets a significant amount of revenue from speeding tickets?

 

[Ellie_Belly]

im also pretty cynical so ill agree.

i heard that New Zealand has the highest suicide rate in the world. this was from a study they did once... (counting on someone to provide link)

<LI class=gaptop>New Zealand’s all-ages suicide rate was the sixth highest among selected OECD countries for males, and the fourth highest for females.
http://www.nzhis.govt.nz/stats/suicidefactsheet.html

^ That was in 2003, might have changed. But that's amazing. Never would have expected that. I wonder why.

 

[Ellie_Belly]

exactly, do you really believe the government gets a significant amount of revenue from speeding tickets?

Well, in that case the government has no excuse! They should be doing a lot more about the issue.

 

[crazyhomo]

Well, in that case the government has no excuse! They should be doing a lot more about the issue.

in all seriousness, why?

why should they spend $50 million on preventing suicide vs spending $50 million on hospitals? wouldn't the money spent on hospitals improve lives much more than money spent on preventing suicide? there are already government programs on suicide prevention, how much more money is required for these programs to make more of a difference?

i know suicide is an emotional issue, and you might say 'it shouldnt matter how much it costs if it saves just one life'. but really, you could probably save 10 times as many lives by making roads safer with the same amount of money, which makes a lot more sense to me

 

[Ellie_Belly]

in all seriousness, why?

why should they spend $50 million on preventing suicide vs spending $50 million on hospitals? wouldn't the money spent on hospitals improve lives much more than money spent on preventing suicide? there are already government programs on suicide prevention, how much more money is required for these programs to make more of a difference?

i know suicide is an emotional issue, and you might say 'it shouldnt matter how much it costs if it saves just one life'. but really, you could probably save 10 times as many lives by making roads safer with the same amount of money, which makes a lot more sense to me

What you say is valid; but the government should still spend money on it. It's a problem which costs lives. And that's something that needs to be addressed.
The easy option isn't necessarily the correct one.