The Abortion Debate (continued) (1 Viewer)

[bshoc]

For example, yes I am pro-choice, but robbie1 was pro-life, and I agreed with his reasoning.

Well I may agree with robbie and not you, but both of your arguments are inconsistant and conditional at best. Logic should always be a hardline not open to opinion.

Intelligent debaters do not normally say to their opponent that they are less intelligent.

Why not? If there is a truth it should be spoken.

 

[ur_inner_child]

I've never justified why I was pro-choice in this entire debate. I've merely showed statistics and things like that. I don't believe in something just because statistics show others believe too. Or weren't you paying attention?

Also, robbie1's argument was consistent, where murder in any idea, any circumstance, whether it be mercy killing, euthanasia, etc is all unacceptable, and I approved, yet did not agree.

Understand?

 

[wheredanton]

Almost as inappropriate as pro-death positions such as yours, that defy simple logic.

Pro death? You know people who support the right to termination don't insist that every pregnancy be terminated. If that was the situation then, yes, you could refer to those people as pro death'.

In other news...Do you actually go to uni bshoc? It seems you spend most of your time being a very serious keyboard warrior trying to make women in this thread change their ways from pro choice to pro life in order to save the lives of unborn children.

Your condescending tone does nothing to convince woman that you are right, I might dare say that many women's pro choice beliefs would be affirmed by simply reading your posts. In many ways you are helping the pro choice cause. Who the fuck would want to agree with you or would listen to you? You're a prime dickhead. Telling people they are stupid and wrong and that you are smart and right isn’t exactly a good method or technique of persuasion.

So how exactly are you helping the pro life argument in this thread? How many people have you convinced that abortion is evil? If anything you are a poster child for what’s wrong with the pro life lobby and why many would never ever associate themselves with pro life (Whether or not the person chooses to have an abortion or not).

 

[ur_inner_child]

I purposely created a seperate post for this, to physically outline that I now speak as a moderator of Bored of Studies when I say that "my opponent is not intelligent" is most definatley abuse.

It is not tolerated in these forums.

DO NOT let this continue or action will be taken

You come into these forums in a discussive mode, not to forcefully assert your opinion and disregard everyone else's opinion as having no value.

 

[Generator]

Why not? If there is a truth it should be spoken.

What truth? That you are unable to even consider an opposing point of view? That you are in no way capable of debating an issue in a calm and rational manner?

NCAP is here so that people can debate the issues in a calm and, I would hope, rational manner. Despite what you may think, your attitude throughout this thread has hardly been rational, or logical for that matter. I think that it's time for you to pull your head out of your arse and actually consider the arguments that others try and put before you rather than just dismiss them out of hand in a manner that at times go beyond what should be acceptable.

Please keep the above in mind when you post.

 

[Aime Fantasy]

bshoc, even though I agree with most of what you say, you need to cool it. What is the point of this thread? To discuss the point. You are posting here because you want to sway another person's opinion (if you're not, why are you?). To do that, you need to appeal to them. People's beliefs are influenced on what they want and/or what is good for them. Appeal to this. If you are aggressive, you are portraying pro-lifers as aggressive. If someone came up to you with a great business idea, would you listen to them if they came up to you wearing rags and swore/cussed at you or if they came up to you dressed neatly with manners? You also NEED to listen to their opinions as well. If people arn't heard, they will lose interest and/or get annoyed. It is also a basic debating manner... you need to consider and evaluate the other's argument, and if it is valid (after much thought), be pursuaded by it. If a pro-choice person came up to me with an argument I could relate to/agree with, sure... I would support pro-choice. I do not claim my morals are perfect, but I am always trying to mould them around the english words "love" and "compassion" (talking about abortion and similar topics)

I believe the vegetarian/vegan debate is equally if not more important than the abortion topic. I approach people calmly and with composure when talking about animals, etc. People listen to me sincerly because of this. Try and do the same

 

[bshoc]

What truth? That you are unable to even consider an opposing point of view? That you are in no way capable of debating an issue in a calm and rational manner?

I have always debated in a calm and rational manner, its the posts like the one you just had to delete that violate this, not me.

NCAP is here so that people can debate the issues in a calm and, I would hope, rational manner. Despite what you may think, your attitude throughout this thread has hardly been rational, or logical for that matter. I think that it's time for you to pull your head out of your arse and actually consider the arguments that others try and put before you rather than just dismiss them out of hand in a manner that at times go beyond what should be acceptable.

Actually I'm pretty sure I'm one of the few people debating this thread who actually respond topically and non-quote exclusively to questions or arguments directed at me, I'm one of the last people you should be criticizing, and you know it

 

[bshoc]

bshoc, even though I agree with most of what you say, you need to cool it. What is the point of this thread? To discuss the point. You are posting here because you want to sway another person's opinion (if you're not, why are you?). To do that, you need to appeal to them. People's beliefs are influenced on what they want and/or what is good for them. Appeal to this. If you are aggressive, you are portraying pro-lifers as aggressive. If someone came up to you with a great business idea, would you listen to them if they came up to you wearing rags and swore/cussed at you or if they came up to you dressed neatly with manners? You also NEED to listen to their opinions as well. If people arn't heard, they will lose interest and/or get annoyed. It is also a basic debating manner... you need to consider and evaluate the other's argument, and if it is valid (after much thought), be pursuaded by it. If a pro-choice person came up to me with an argument I could relate to/agree with, sure... I would support pro-choice.

Some people like to place value in their own derived beliefs.

 

[Generator]

I have always debated in a calm and rational manner, its the posts like the one you just had to delete that violate this, not me.

I take it that you are ignoring your 2 most recent posts, the posts that I was forced to delete? (see UIC's most recent post for the reason why)

As for debating in a calm and rational manner -

Actually I'm pretty sure I'm one of the few people debating this thread who actually respond topically and non-quote exclusively to questions or arguments directed at me, I'm one of the last people you should be criticizing, and you know it

Ah, no, you don't respond, you spit vitriol and call it 'logic' and you ignore views that differ to your own and respond with sensationalised responses that aren't of any constructive value in what should be a proper discussion.

If you can't tone it down, I suggest that you leave before action is taken.

 

[otay]

Part of my belief for pro-choice is that women do not get to decide whether they want to get pregnant. I mean what if they use all precautions and still it happens? They should be forced to have the baby? I believe they have the choice. It's a big choice, but it's still their body, their lives (along with the father's) that will be affected.

 

[Dio-Rama]

there seems to be a tendency for pro-life to be mainly men. anyone else noticed that?
for gods sake ppl, stop caryying on like complete wanks. women have the choice to what they want to their bodies and when they want it.
for example, a MAN makes the choice to rape some woman. however when the woman gets pregnant, it is usually prolife MEN who say keep the damn thing.
pro-life takes ppls rights to fre choice, they only want to control every bloody life around thing, because they have so much trouble dealing with their own.
true some pro-life are women, i do admit to that.
wats the bet tho, that pro-life was originally started by a man!?

 

[ur_inner_child]

there seems to be a tendency for pro-life to be mainly men. anyone else noticed that?

No, that's not true.

This thread contains a number of male members in support of abortion. As for pro-choicers, I feel that its quite equal among the sexes in this thread.

As for real life, I use to think in such a way too, but I've encountered many women who are anti-abortionists for the same reasons as men are - their idea of life.

 

[otay]

http://www.publicagenda.org/issues/angles.cfm?issue_type=abortion

Lots of good stats here.

Not much difference between genders as you can see

 

[Dio-Rama]

those points are also true i guess. bout the men for pro-choice i mean.
i wonder wat one of those pro-life women would do tho if they were raped and then found they were pregnant with triplets. that would be an interesting situation...in theory.

 

[Serius]

Seems retarded given the sheer number of living things devoid of a brain, i believe theres quite a few million on your forearm right now.

Every scientist I've talked to consider the ability of a body's cells to divide to be the guage of life or death.

Yeah i will back that, death is basically when cells can no longer divide, even though realisticly this can be hard to guage. so as a rule of thumb doctors go by brain activity as once brain activity is lost, it is very unlikely the patient will ever recover.

 

[Dio-Rama]

for all those pro-life ppl, have any of you stood and watched someone die that was close to you? i dont mean sat on the couch and seen it on tv...but physically stood in a hospital room and watched a loved one die slowly and painfully from cancer over a period of 5 months? i have
in cases like this, euthanasia would of been an absolute blessing.

ok, over the gender issue, genders are equal.

i dont agree with murder or the taking of another life by force. i do not agree with abortion just for the sake of it, like so many teenage females do because its an inconvenience. however i do agree with abortion in special cases like rape or if their is something physically or mentally wrong with the baby.
i do agree with euthanasia

 

[Serius]

i have aswell, two people actually. I can strongly say that i still do not beleive euthanasia is ethical.

 

[bshoc]

for all those pro-life ppl, have any of you stood and watched someone die that was close to you? i dont mean sat on the couch and seen it on tv...but physically stood in a hospital room and watched a loved one die slowly and painfully from cancer over a period of 5 months? i have
in cases like this, euthanasia would of been an absolute blessing.

ok, over the gender issue, genders are equal.

i dont agree with murder or the taking of another life by force. i do not agree with abortion just for the sake of it, like so many teenage females do because its an inconvenience. however i do agree with abortion in special cases like rape or if their is something physically or mentally wrong with the baby.
i do agree with euthanasia

Then you agree with me, and the NSW government, the problem is the very governmental laws are not being enforced.

I agree with euthanasia only if the person signed a document that they wanted it done if they ever got into that state or if they decided that they wanted to die.

 

[bshoc]

Yeah i will back that, death is basically when cells can no longer divide, even though realisticly this can be hard to guage. so as a rule of thumb doctors go by brain activity as once brain activity is lost, it is very unlikely the patient will ever recover.

True, but only unlikely, but how about that fireman in the states who woke up after 15 years in a vegetative coma, amazing.

For human cells to multiply they basically need two things, nutrients and oxygen.

 

[Dio-Rama]

in wat way not ethical? again taking ppls rights. i think that if they want to make the choice but are unable to do it physically themselves, then someone should be able to do it.
if ppl can make the choice not to be resusciated if they die, why cant they sign something to make euthanasia permissable if the situation gets too serious.
of course get a registered nurse or doctor to oversee it, and only in situations that have no chance of getting beter or cured.