The Abortion Debate (continued) (2 Viewers)

[bshoc]

I accept your admission of defeat.

As for the maths, try it yourself 10/100 * 1/100 * 0.1/100 * Australias fertile females population (about 6.5 million)

 

[dieburndie]

I accept your admission of defeat.

I hate you

 

[bshoc]

I hate you

aww damn does that mean I dont get that hug?

 

[wce06]

Nobody here actually wants to argue for the fathers rights, thus we are debating assuming that it is only the woman who has the legal power to do so, which is true. Pregnancy is the womans fault, nobody forced her to have sex, thus any negative ramifications of the action on her own being is entirely her own doing, the same way if a man caugh aids it would be his problem, if a woman gets pregnant its her problem, and she has absolutely no right to an abortion given that minor preacuations would have prevented her predicament in the first place, the same way that guy with aids doesent deserve taxpayer money when he could've just worn a condom.

Its called personal responsibility, get used to it, or go to North Korea.

Do you really think that given "minor preacuations (sic)" would have stopped the unwanted pregnancy, society should ditch the rights of the woman in question? You seem to like drawing tenuous analogies (eg AIDS), so let's use another one. If a person was walking across a road and got hit by a car that WOULD have missed them if they had taken the minor precaution of looking up the road, by your logic it's their problem, we shouldn't do anything about it, lock them away for nine months so they can learn to be sensible and not make stupid mistakes. If you shut down that argument (which you should), you are shutting down your own.

A unwanted pregnancy is a mistake, an abortion can stop it from becoming a catastrophe.

 

[bshoc]

Do you really think that given "minor preacuations (sic)" would have stopped the unwanted pregnancy,

Yes, it certainly seems to work for many australians.

society should ditch the rights of the woman in question?

Yes, or rather, recognize the human rights of the unborn.

You seem to like drawing tenuous analogies (eg AIDS),

As opposed to your attempts to liken sexual relations to road crossing, at least I maintained the control element, which is the act itself

If you shut down that argument (which you should), you are shutting down your own.

Only in your dreams, looking both ways before one crosses the road is taught from childhood, any idiot that got hit like that probably desrved to get hit, in any case anybody as stupid as you describe could probably die from forgetting to breathe. Finally, crossing the road has nothing to do with fcking.

A unwanted pregnancy is a mistake, an abortion can stop it from becoming a catastrophe.

No, pregnancy and life are a miracle, 60000 dead babies a year is the catastophe, if the woman is stupid enough to not take the necessary minor precautions, shes stupid enough not to have a say in the ramifications of those actions.

 

[robo-andie]

No, pregnancy and life are a miracle, 60000 dead babies a year is the catastophe, if the woman is stupid enough to not take the necessary minor precautions, shes stupid enough not to have a say in the ramifications of those actions.

Think of population and how ridiculous it would be then if we didn't use contraception and didn't allow abortion.

Pregnancy and life aren't a miracle, there isn't anything spectacular about our ability to give birth or reproduce, we aren't the only animals. Hell even plants do it!!! everything is capable of reproduction and so it doesn't exactly become anything particularly special.

If the woman is stupid enough not to use contraception, then she should have the option to correct her mistake. It is her not anyone else who has to live with the guilt (if any) of having a foetus removed.

It should be up to the individual whether or not they are willing to have an abortion.

 

[robo-andie]

Nobody here actually wants to argue for the fathers rights, thus we are debating assuming that it is only the woman who has the legal power to do so, which is true. Pregnancy is the womans fault, nobody forced her to have sex, thus any negative ramifications of the action on her own being is entirely her own doing, the same way if a man caugh aids it would be his problem, if a woman gets pregnant its her problem, and she has absolutely no right to an abortion given that minor preacuations would have prevented her predicament in the first place, the same way that guy with aids doesent deserve taxpayer money when he could've just worn a condom.

Its called personal responsibility, get used to it, or go to North Korea.

I find it hard to believe you couldn't consider those women who are raped or that may use contraceptions which fail (condoms do break you know).

Do those women also fall under the 'well it's her own fault', because if they do this suggests that you indeed believe that rape is non-existent as each time it occurs the woman consents in some way therefor making any negative consequences of such foul actions her fault.

That's just plain ridiculousness.

 

[robo-andie]

It's open to debate as to when a stand-alone life actually begins.

By this do you mean when should the foetus actually be considered legally human or alive?

Just to make sure.

 

[Generator]

By this do you mean when should the foetus actually be considered legally human or alive?

Just to make sure.

It's open to debate as to when the entity becomes a human life (i.e., where is the line between the potential for life and an actual life).

 

[wce06]

any idiot that got hit like that probably desrved to get hit, in any case anybody as stupid as you describe could probably die from forgetting to breathe....

......if the woman is stupid enough to not take the necessary minor precautions, shes stupid enough not to have a say in the ramifications of those actions.

So people deserve to die from mistakes, no matter how stupid? On one hand you're carrying on about the 'miracle' of unborn life and how we must protect its 'rights', and on the other you're saying that anyone who doesn't look up and down the road 'deserves' to die.

Unfortunately for you, not everyone lives by your right wing 'personal responsibility is everything' idea; there is a role for society to support those who make mistakes. We're in the 21st century ok bshoc, it's not every man(or pregnant woman) for themselves anymore, it's been well recognised that the state, and society, has a role. As pointed out, pregnancies happen through forced sex, failure of contraceptive devices etc, it is therefore not the fault of some 'stupid' woman who 'got herself pregnant'. Forcing a woman to carry through with pregnancy and birth when it was a MISTAKE is absurd.

 

[KFunk]

It's open to debate as to when the entity becomes a human life (i.e., where is the line between the potential for life and an actual life).

It gets even more muddled than it already is when you throw twinning into the mix - can something actually possess that which constitutes human life when it may yet become two human lives? Hell, what constitutes human life in the first place?

 

[wce06]

My personal opinion is that products of rape, likely harm to the mother, and defective foetuses should be the only circumstances in which abortions are allowed.

Defective foetuses? So 'defective' people aren't blessed with these same 'rights' as others? Agree completely with the first two cases, but I just find inconsistency in the argument that proposes that the rights of foetuses are equivalent to the rights of born humans - yet you say that abortion's ok if the foetus is 'defective'. Does this mean that parents can kill 'defective' children? If not, then there is clearly a difference between the foetus and the born child; something the 'pro-life' are adament against.

I notice that most pro-choicers seem to regard abortion as legitimate because of convenience. "Oh well, I didn't mean for it to happen, so i'll just kill it". Is that actually what you are implying?

I don't think anyone is implying that the decision to have an abortion is, or should be, blasé at all.

 

[bshoc]

Think of population and how ridiculous it would be then if we didn't use contraception and didn't allow abortion.

What? When don't we allow contraception? :rofl: Stupidest comment in this thread thusfar, congrats you managed to make your whole argument irrelevant in the first line.

Pregnancy and life aren't a miracle, there isn't anything spectacular about our ability to give birth or reproduce, we aren't the only animals. Hell even plants do it!!! everything is capable of reproduction and so it doesn't exactly become anything particularly special.

OK, you were irrelevant and nothing special, I was a miracle, this way we are both satisfied.

If the woman is stupid enough not to use contraception, then she should have the option to correct her mistake. It is her not anyone else who has to live with the guilt (if any) of having a foetus removed.

Actually the child she kills has to live with being dead, in the life and death of a child, any rights the woman may or may not have is irrelevant.

It should be up to the individual whether or not they are willing to have an abortion.

Nope, it shouldn't, and up until two decades ago it wasn't, time to correct the past mistakes of the utilitarian, feminist, poofter right's 60's and 70's.

 

[bshoc]

I find it hard to believe you couldn't consider those women who are raped or that may use contraceptions which fail (condoms do break you know).

Do those women also fall under the 'well it's her own fault', because if they do this suggests that you indeed believe that rape is non-existent as each time it occurs the woman consents in some way therefor making any negative consequences of such foul actions her fault.

That's just plain ridiculousness.

Lets deal with the 99% of abortions that are for convenience - once this is done we can start nitpicking those other 1%. Pro-death people like to focus on the 1% of abortions that may be legitimate, I like to argue those other 99% that are not.

 

[shelly cat]

Unwanted pregnancies occur, there's nothing we can do about that. Through abortion, however, we can insure that unwanted births do not happen - something far more serious. Again, I'm not suggesting (and hopefully nobody does) that abortions are pleasant. But they are more 'pleasant' than forcing a single woman, or a couple, to parent an unwanted child who they do not have the capacity to care for.

This is an important point. If someone has a baby that will grow up in the worst environment possible because they do not want it or cannot afford it is that right???

 

[bshoc]

This is an important point. If someone has a baby that will grow up in the worst environment possible because they do not want it or cannot afford it is that right???

Yeah why dont we go and slaugher all the homeless people and the population of redfern while we're at it.

 

[gerhard]

wtf i live in redfern

 

[robo-andie]

What? When don't we allow contraception? :rofl: Stupidest comment in this thread thusfar, congrats you managed to make your whole argument irrelevant in the first line.

well you managed to prove to us you can't read for shit.

OK, you were irrelevant and nothing special, I was a miracle, this way we are both satisfied.

That's not a very good counter-argument

Actually the child she kills has to live with being dead, in the life and death of a child, any rights the woman may or may not have is irrelevant.

the child has to live with being dead? now THAT'S the stupidest comment so far. How does a dead anything 'live' with itself? utter ridiculousness

Nope, it shouldn't, and up until two decades ago it wasn't, time to correct the past mistakes of the utilitarian, feminist, poofter right's 60's and 70's.

oh that's right, you're one of those 'I hate everything and because I hate it, it's wrong' types. I forgot, sorry. All worship bshoc in his brilliance.

 

[Serius]

yes i agree, by bringing up the minority of abortions pro-abortion people are showing flaws in their own argument. Will you tell us why it is ok to kill an infant for no good reason? because even with all the arguements you bring up, rape, incest, crime, stupidity whatever...even if we fully concede those points[which we arent going to do] then explain to me why the other 70 000+ abortions are justified.

 

[robo-andie]

Lets deal with the 99% of abortions that are for convenience - once this is done we can start nitpicking those other 1%. Pro-death people like to focus on the 1% of abortions that may be legitimate, I like to argue those other 99% that are not.

bah, pulling figures from your arse to support yourself now.