The Abortion Debate... (2 Viewers)

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LadyBec

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no one owns a child you fuck.
If it's born its a person, thus you CAN'T own it.
If it's a feotus the woman as ultimate responsibility as it's in her body and dependent on her for its continued existance
 

timrie6

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superbird said:
you know wat i refuse to go any further to reason with u. ur just too damn stupid.
because you have no decent comeback and you know I am right

superbird said:
if u cant understand the legal rights of who owns a child then i really very sorry for u. goodluck living in the real world.
HA

Paton v Pregnancy Advisory Services:

Before birth, the father has no legal rights or duties towards the child.
The mother's rights override the father's.

which is how it should stay
 

superbird

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LadyBec said:
no one owns a child you fuck.
If it's born its a person, thus you CAN'T own it.
If it's a feotus the woman as ultimate responsibility as it's in her body and dependent on her for its continued existance
we're talking legal terms here u moron! the child is governed/owned by the parents (ie decisions are made for the child by the parents in legal terms) until they turn 16.
 

timrie6

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The father has no rights until the child is born, as shown in the case study above.
 

superbird

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timrie6 said:
The father has no rights until the child is born, as shown in the case study above.
which country did this case study come from?
 

LadyBec

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superbird said:
we're talking legal terms here u moron! the child is governed/owned by the parents (ie decisions are made for the child by the parents in legal terms) until they turn 16.
i WAS talking in legal terms.
You said "owned" i simply pointed out that this is not the case. It is not "owned" it is, as you just said "governed". Look them up, they mean completly different things.
And before the bith the father has no rights, other then what the mother choose to allow him. Those are the legal facts.
 

superbird

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LadyBec said:
And before the bith the father has no rights, other then what the mother choose to allow him. Those are the legal facts.
I believe we were debating whether or not this should be the case. Not whether or not it is law.
 

LadyBec

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you're the one that brought up legal stuff, not me.
But since i think that that should be the case anyway i don't think it matters much.
The women is the one who riskes death, mental disorders, and discomfort amoung other things, as well as being the one society critises for having a child outside marriage (and most abortions are on children concieved outside marriage). She's the one who has to give up working, and has to carry around and provide for the child for 9 months.
It's her body, thus it should be her decision. Sure she can consult the father and listen to his opinion, but at the ned of the day i believe it should be her decision.
 
K

katie_tully

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Now... the thing that annoys me most in the world are;
Meddling Christians
Politicians
Bleeding heart liberals.

1. Politicians have no right to bring abortion up, because it is not something that affects Australia, so to say.
It is not up to anybody else to determine whether somebody has the right to decide to terminate a pregnancy, because IT IS NOT YOUR BODY.
2. I've been with somebody when they went to have an abortion. Every precaution is taken to make sure the women will not endure un-necessary stress. Women can not walk into a abortion clinic and ask for an abortion unless they provide a really good excuse as to why they want to terminate the pregnancy. Infact, doctors will not preform an abortion unless you are a risk to the baby, or the baby is a risk to you (mentally, physically, financially, etc).
3. They're talking about abolishing late term pregnancies, ie. Pregnancies after 20 weeks. Pregnancies that are terminated after 20 weeks will only be done so, if there is a definate abornormality detected. This means women who know they baby is going to be mentally retarded, physically retarded, etc are going to have to carry on with the pregnancy, knowing their child will not have the same quality of life as healthy children.
4. More women will turn to backyard abortions. Ie. The coat hanger method. It is around $200-$250 for an abortion (my friend paid $250)... The politicians say it is an un-necessary burden on medicare, yet how much of a burden is it going to be on the health system when women turn up from internal bleeding, lacerations etc? How much more of a burden will they pose on the health system when the government has to provide more mental health services due to the stress caused by an unwanted child. The parents also have to provide for a child... Which, in this day in age isn't exactly the cheapest thing on earth.
5. "Most abortions are done by immoral, stupid teenage girls" is a myth. Most abortions occur in the 30-40 age group, especally among already married mothers with children.
6. You are not "killing' anything because technically at 0-20 weeks the feotus is not considered alive. If a women was kicked in the stomach in the 0-20 week period and lost the feotus, it would not be considered murder or man slaughter. I know recently a woman won a case because her boyfriend killed their unborn child, but it was well over 20 weeks into the pregnancy.
7. in some cases the father will not stay around once he knows the girl is pregnant. if this is the case, before, during, or after the abortion, he, realistically, should have no rights.
if the father is going to stay around, but is in agreeance with the termination, hoorah.
if the women does not tell the father she is pregnant, it isnt going to hurt him. i know this is sly, however it will prevent undue stress upon the male. not possibly the best way to go about things.
if the father wants to keep the child, ultimately he should have rights, however its a double take. Father wants child, mother doesn't want child. Does she have the child and then give it to him? Mother wants child, but father doesnt. Does she risk her relationship with him, by giving birth to a partially unwanted child?

There are so many factors influencing a person's decision to have an abortion, and no two cases are the same, therefore im lame mans terms, the government should just..
Fuck right off.
 

crazyhomo

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superbird: are you trying to stir shit, or are you really that stupid?
 
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superbird, you realise dogs actually can feel pain? like, it's actually been proven? gronk
 

ur_inner_child

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Superbird, before the baby is born and the mother is carrying it: mother and father have UNEQUAL situations.

SHE"S PREGNANT and he's not.
SHE DROPS OUT OF SCHOOL he doesn't
SHE'S SHUNNED FROM JOBS he doesn't,
SHE GETS LOOKED DOWN ON he doesn't because he's not enormous.
SHE'S CAN RESULT IN PHYSICAL RAMIFICATIONS, he doesn't
SHE GETS SICK EVERY DAY, he doesnt

The only thing equal is the "burden" or the emotional journey or whatever. He can still be looked down on, but only by people that KNOW what situation he is in.

It's not EQUAL in say, because the circumstances ARENT equal to start with.

The man's opinion is valid, but it's as valid as your parents opinion.
Valid, but to a point
 

Not-That-Bright

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HE'S SUPPORTING THE FAMILY FINANCIALLY and she's not.
HE HAS TO KEEP POSITIVE EVEN WHILE HIS WIFE BITCHES AT HIM
HE HAS TO LOOK AFTER HIS WIFE THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE THING
HE DOESN'T GET TO EXPERIENCE THE GOOD PARTS OF CHILD BIRTH she does.
HE MIGHT HAVE TO DROP OUT OF SCHOOL TO PAY FOR THE CHILD
 

ur_inner_child

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I just don't think it's cleary 50-50. RIGHT, this is OBVIOUSLY going to be battle of the sexes, Okay, shall we move on to the baser problem then???

To avoid a battle of the sexes

I propose a situation.

SITUATION 1: The woman wants to abort, but the man wants to keep the child.

What should they do?
How should they solve this problem? Don't just say they should talk it out, talk it out in a post or something.


Because personally I'm really lost if I was in that situation
 

Not-That-Bright

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It will come down to the womans decision, but i believe it's wrong to believe that a guy wouldn't be as upset over it as a woman would be if someone killed her unborn child that she wanted.
 

ur_inner_child

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Not-That-Bright said:
It will come down to the womans decision, but i believe it's wrong to believe that a guy wouldn't be as upset over it as a woman would be if someone killed her unborn child that she wanted.
I agree the man would be equally upset too
 

Not-That-Bright

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yea i think that's kinda like... what people sometimes forget..

When a girl decides to abort her child and the guy disagree's, that's as emotionally draining as if they guy drugged the girl and made her have an abortion when she wanted the child..

So while i think it should come down to the womans choice, i don't think the husbands wishes should be taken too lightly, it could easily ruin even a great relationship for something like this to happen.
 

ur_inner_child

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That's true. Hopefully women arent forgetting that though. I don't think many do, but if there is, that's just sad.

As I said, in each post lol, the father's opinion is valid.

EDIT: Where is superbird?
 
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