The Abortion Debate... (1 Viewer)

[MoonlightSonata]

no im sorry i do think its murder- u can continue the debate on whether it is alive, but personally i think it is alive and growing- the mother aborts - she intends to ends the unborn child's life.

It is not murder if it is to save her own life, right?

 

[thejosiekiller]

mm interesting form of self defence?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

It is muder, however i think it's one of the few occassions when it's justified....

 

[MoonlightSonata]

A right to life does not give you automatic use of another person's body

 

[MoonlightSonata]

It is muder, however i think it's one of the few occassions when it's justified....

Good I'm testing the water to make sure we have no extremists

 

[girlanachronism]

I'm not against abortion, and I don't think that it's murder, because murder refers to intentionally killing a living human being. For the record, I had an abortion when I was in year 10. I did everything right, but the fact of the matter is, if you have sex, you're always at risk of pregnancy. However I was not a stupid teenager who didn't care, I was on the pill and used condoms at the time so I was just one of the unlucky statistical minorities. My personal emotional perspective on it, is that while of course I'd prefer to have never had to have made that decision, I did the right thing. I did not murder a child. I got the procedure done at 6-7 weeks. At that time there was no possible way that the fetus would have been able to survive on its own; it was totally dependant on me.

I'm a very strong advocate of the right to choice, and I honestly don't think it's anyone's business but the woman's (and of course her partner). However I do believe very strongly that abortions past the point where the child could theoretically and plausibly survive outside the womb should not be allowed, although of course there are exceptions to this, namely if carrying the child to term causes any harm to the mother.

I don't want to start a debate on this, however it is a topic which I feel very strongly about. Our government should try and keep their policies as secular as possible, as despite the personal beliefs of those in power, we are a multi-cultural society and it is unfair to expect the entire federal/state population to conform to one religious belief, ESPECIALLY when it comes to issues of healthcare.

So yeah. I got an abortion, I knew exactly what I was doing, I did the right thing and I don't regret it. Not every woman who goes through with it feels this way, which is why I think there should be an extremely strong emphasis on counselling both before and after. This is potentially expensive if privatised, and I believe that by removing medicare/healthcare funding for abortion the incidences of teenage motherhood in low income areas will just keep increasing.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Yes, i beieve they should keep the policies secular... I'm a strong atheist, check out the 'Does God Exist' Thread...

At that time there was no possible way that the fetus would have been able to survive on its own; it was totally dependant on me.

http://clubs.calvin.edu/chimes/2002-10-18/perspectives8.jpg

That's a featus at 6-7 weeks, while i believe it should be your decision, and you probably did make the 'right' decision in my pov. yIn my pov you did commit murder, however it was justified, no woman should be FORCED to keep a child against their will, at least at 6-7 weeks...

 

[girlanachronism]

Don't believe everything you read. I saw an ultrasound of my 'child' (or, as it was, embyro). It was not as developed as that. Most abortion sites on the internet are total bullshit. Sorry to rain on your parade.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/imagepages/9579.htm
Here is a picture of an embyro at approx 7.5 weeks, ie at a stage after I had my abortion. As you can see, it still has quite a distinguished tail, and gills.

It's only in the beginning of the 6th week that the lungs *begin* to form. The lungs are still not fully mature at 29-32 weeks

Up until 8 weeks, the baby is actually in the embryonic phase. It begins its foetal development at the beginning of the 9th week.

It's not really until about the 23rd-25th week that it's possible for the fetus to breathe outside the womb, as its respiratory system is immature, but gas exchange is possible.

For debate, embryos and fetuses are medically defined as different, so which do you see as human? whats your personal take on when whatever you want to call it in a woman's womb is legally/morally human?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/images/ency/fullsize/9579.jpg
still looks fairly human to me....
Everything i've read tells me that a babies heart beat starts at around 6-7 weeks, i'm presuming they'd need to have some form of lungs....

 

[iambored]

to be at contraception..

i keep reading contraception, it's conception

wat do u mean bout being alive tho?

because to count someone as dead we say "no heartbeat and brain non-functional" here the heart isnt formed yet? and neither is the brain?

but amoebas and plants don't have hearts or brains. the heart and brain isn't all there is to being alive. what there is to being alive however, i don't know

 

[Jesus!]

Those in favour of aboration are going to hell. You are disgusting satanists! By the Grace of God.

 

[crazyhomo]

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/images/ency/fullsize/9579.jpg
still looks fairly human to me....
Everything i've read tells me that a babies heart beat starts at around 6-7 weeks, i'm presuming they'd need to have some form of lungs....

you know that having a beating heart does not mean you have working lungs, right? the lungs develop late as, you know, they are kinda useless inside a womb

 

[girlanachronism]

It has a tail and gills! Its fingers are still kind of webbed. I generally call that a fishy trait

However the heartbeat actually begins at around 4-5 weeks

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002398.htm
This link clearly says the beginning of the formation of the lungs is in week 6. Therefore it still has the gills.

 

[jm1234567890]

Nothing wrogn with abortion, no need to bring an unhappy child into the world

 

[Jesus!]

Nothing wrogn with abortion, no need to bring an unhappy child into the world

You are bound for hell! Hell the worst place ever! You are a disgrace to god and your fellow man. By the grace of god.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

You are bound for hell! Hell the worst place ever! You are a disgrace to god and your fellow man. By the grace of god.

LOL would you stop saying that! By the grace of God!

 

[Jesus!]

LOL would you stop saying that! By the grace of God!

I detect that you lack godly wisdom. You do not have the grace of god. Those with the grace of god will go to heaven. Those who choose the right way to live will go to heaven. By the grace of god amen!

 

[thejosiekiller]

stfu jesus

didnt see myself saying that

 

[Monkey Butler]

No, that's not the philosophy of the death penalty. Hence, your conclusion that it's hypocritical is wrong.

This is completely off topic, but I think it's important. What, then, IS the philosophy/justification for the death penalty if it's not that the executioner (or society) has the right to take a life? You previously said something about rehabilitation, but any Legal Studies student will tell you that that's not the only reason for punishing someone. And the argument that the death penalty should be used for people unable to be rehabilitated is ridiculous as well, because a life's a life. If that's the only justification for executing people, the pro-Death Penalty pro-lifers are doubly hypocritical.

Now back on-topic, I think the idea of when life starts is not what should be focussed upon. The majority of the people in this thread have acknowledged, whether they believe that the fetus/embryo is alive or not, that terminating a fetus/embryo is a terrible thing to have to do, and the issue of whether this terrible action is morally (or potentially legally) justifiable is what should be focussed on. Personally, I think it is justifiable, despite the (hopefully very few) people who abuse the right to abortion.

 

[Rorix]

stuff

What is the point of jail? To rehabilitate criminals so that they may rejoin society. Please, I didn't do Legal Studies, so make your legal studies objections.
The death penalty is for those that are so horrendous, they can never be rehabilitated.
This is no way conflicts with opposing the killing of a baby.


I'll get back to the 'what is life?' thing later.