The Abortion Debate... (1 Viewer)

[+Po1ntDeXt3r+]

ok.. to those who are sure of themselves..
i am neither pro-life nor pro-abortion
i will perform it.. if i had to.. but wait and see :s

to argue that it looks human hence we can kill it.. my question is..
u tell me..
Image A
Image B

Which are ure human features?
.. both can be alive or dead... fertilised or not..
dun cheat honestly ask ureself.. is this a good definition?
because i cant decide

 

[Not-That-Bright]

When they're fertilised they're human, I don't need to see any features...

 

[girlanachronism]

because a human has gills and a tail

 

[Not-That-Bright]

You used to be one of them, are you human?

 

[girlanachronism]

Yes, because I *developed* into a human. When I had a tail, I was still an embryo

 

[+Po1ntDeXt3r+]

so fertilised = human..
but when are they alive?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

but if your mother had decided to have an abortion you never would have existed..
It's as moral as if i went back in time, killed your mother and you never existed saying that I didn't kill you too.

 

[crazyhomo]

You used to be one of them, are you human?

is a butterfly a caterpiller?

 

[+Po1ntDeXt3r+]

but if your mother had decided to have an abortion you never would have existed..
It's as moral as if i went back in time, killed your mother and you never existed saying that I didn't kill you too.

huh? ure goin to hav to elude more to how that defines being alive?

and another.. dun bring ma mamma into this

 

[Not-That-Bright]

So your argument is that because they have yet to become a fully developed life, they have no rights?
They WILL most likely develop into a human life... at about 6-7 weeks when their heart starts faintly beating. Life is GOING to occur naturally and it is stopped, i believe denial of life is as bad as cancellation of life... Then again it could be argued that every sperm i don't have fertilise an egg is me denying life.

Definately a complex problem.

 

[crazyhomo]

but if your mother had decided to have an abortion you never would have existed..
It's as moral as if i went back in time, killed your mother and you never existed saying that I didn't kill you too.

do you think that when murdering someone, you are also responsible for the deaths of any children they might have had? and the children of those children? and the children of the children of the children of the children?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

do you think that when murdering someone, you are also responsible for the deaths of any children they might have had? and the children of those children? and the children of the children of the children of the children?

Yes I do of course you are

 

[girlanachronism]

but if your mother had decided to have an abortion you never would have existed..
It's as moral as if i went back in time, killed your mother and you never existed saying that I didn't kill you too.

Wtf? That is the stupidest argument I have ever heard.

If I never existed, then of course you aren't guilty of my murder. By that logic, by killing my mother before I was born (I am the oldest child), you're responsible for the "deaths" of me, as well as my brother and sister and any children we may have possibly had. You're basically responsbile for "murdering" a whole lineage of people.

BUT IF WE NEVER EXISTED THEN OF COURSE IT'S NOT MURDER. YOU CAN'T MURDER SOMEONE WHO ISN'T ALREADY IN EXISTENCE!

 

[Not-That-Bright]

No, but you can deny them life..

 

[girlanachronism]

No, but you can deny them life..

By your brilliant logic, you can attribute an infinite number of murders to, say, Pol Pot, because of the potential lineages that never happened due to his regime. It's a stupid fucking argument. Sorry, but YOU CAN'T BE RESPONSIBLE FOR MURDERING SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T ALREADY EXIST! YOU ARE STUPID! AHH!

 

[+Po1ntDeXt3r+]

err ure a tad bit early there
5-8 weeks Primary brain forms.. the atriums and ventricles of the heart form (chambers of the heart).. vessels form
.. without the brain controls and the vessels and the chambers.. its lik mass leakage ..
9-12 weeks the heartbeat is detectable..

also .. many ppl abort if the child has deformities.. and defects.. do u think thats worse..?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

It depends if it will live or not, i feel it's an insult to people living with these deformities when mothers choose to abort their child so that they're not like them....

 

[girlanachronism]

Yeah, I'm sure they have a cry everytime a mother aborts a deformed/whatever child

 

[+Po1ntDeXt3r+]

many abort cos the child hav lik the potential for a totally dependent life.. and its lik keepin a person on life-support forever.. i think they abort because of the high chance that they might love the child.. only to hav it die..

they also then hav another go after...

 

[Monkey Butler]

OK, just to clear up the death penalty thing - there are several outcomes that the courts attempt to achieve when punishing a person: retribution, incarceration, deterrence, re-integrative shaming and, yes, rehabilitation. While the death penalty certainly removes the possibility of recidivism, and definitely punishes the person for their crime, it does not fulfill the other criteria. There is no opportunity for rehabilitation, and it has been found that the death penalty is an ineffective deterant for people who commit capital offences (ie, they would commit murder regardless of the punishment).
And NTB, you could argue that a person could commit mass-murder in Australia and "merely" be jailed for their entire life, but is that not just as bad as the death penalty. You'd be surprised how bad jails are, and to be forced to live in one for your entire life, without any hope for release is probably in fact a worse prospect than the death penalty for many people.

And now back to abortion - I don't think it's insulting to disabled people to abort a deformed baby. Despite the positive outlook of some people living with disabilities, the truth is that a disabled life is incredibly difficult on the person and all the people around them. It's definitely a grey area, but I think it's fair enough if a parent decides to abort their fetus rather than put their child through such a life. I'm not sure if I condone it, but I don't condemn it.