The Abortion Debate... (2 Viewers)

[neo o]

BTW, the "womans life at risk" argument is pretty ridiculous, since deaths from childbirth have been practically eliminated with modern medicine. (and I only say practically because there are always anomalies).

So kids, it's either all or nothing. None of this half arsed "only if their life is at risk" rubbish

 

[ur_inner_child]

If an incredibly anorexic girl aged 14 was pregnant, I'd figure she'd die before 9 months is up.

 

[neo o]

If an incredibly anorexic girl aged 14 was pregnant, I'd figure she'd die before 9 months is up.

Anorexic girls stop menstruating, and can't become pregnant.

btw, stupid scenario, I did mention anomalies.

 

[lukebennett]

BTW, the "womans life at risk" argument is pretty ridiculous, since deaths from childbirth have been practically eliminated with modern medicine. (and I only say practically because there are always anomalies).

So kids, it's either all or nothing. None of this half arsed "only if their life is at risk" rubbish

well actually some pregnancies even in modern medicine have abnormalities and it does often come down to a choice for the life of the beby or the life of the mother. it sounds ridiculous but these scenarios do occur. it wasnt really an argument anyway, but if it becomes a choice between a mothers life or death or childs life or death you would choose the mother. its not half arsed because as you know i dont agree with abortion in anyway. the above is just if you have to choose between the life or death of mother or unborn child which can be more complicated than abortion

 

[neo o]

That was a general reply, I haven't read most of this thread but know people will be making that argument.

btw, anomalies = abnormalities.

I prefer to use stats from government sources, but anyway here are some stats (which are estimates based upon statistics).

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/abreasons.html

REASONS FOR ABORTIONS: COMPILED ESTIMATES

rape 0.25 % (0.1-1 %)
incest 0.03 % (<0.1 %)
physical life of mother 0.2 % (0.1-0.3 %)
physical health of mother 1.0 % (0.1-3 %)
fetal health 0.4 % (0.1-1.0 %)
mental health of mother depends on criterion (0.1-17 %)
"personal choice" 98% (78-99 %)
--too young/immature/not ready for responsibility (32 %)
--economic (21-28 %)
--to avoid adjusting life (16 %)
--mother single or in poor relationship (12-13 %)
--enough children already (4-8 %)

In 2003, in NSW there were 28,090 reported abortions. From these estimates (which are American btw, I'm assuming similarities with America), there were only 28 - 84 abortions that took place because the mothers life was at risk. As such, hypothetically abortions can be banned outright and can then be left to the discretion of doctors.

if you want to add foetal health, mothers physical health and rape incest, that only brings it to 70 + 8 + 56 + 280 + 112 = 526/28090 = 1.8% of cases. In all these cases, abortion can be hypothetically banned outright, with doctors deciding upon whether an abortion is needed.

I'll try to find some more appropriate stats though

I should add now, that I'm all for abortions btw

 

[Not-That-Bright]

lol I was just about to say.. that sounds more like a pro-abortion stance because heaps of people are saying only in cases of rape or mothers life at risk.. lol

 

[Generator]

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Howard-cool-on-abortion-inquiry/2004/11/14/1100384409925.html

 

[kat_mandu]

i can understand where you're coming from with this, however i think you're not entirely comprehending what having a child with a disability such as down's syndrome does to your life. it's not like having a 'normal' child where you stay home to raise them for nearly a year and then you can put them into daycase and go back to work. having a disabled child completely turns your life around, and it becomes all about them. as my aunt's friend (whose child has a disability, cerebal palsy i think?) says 'you learn who your real friends are when you have a disabled kid'. i mean, some people are willing to make this sacrifice and that's great, but i don't think you should judge women for not wanting to basically lose their entire life so they can look after their child.

I have two disabled cousins, i used to work at a special unit at a primary school, and i work at a home for disabled adults. so yeh i understand how hard it can be, but at the same time i understand how rewarding it can be. im sure everyone agrees that disabled people and there families can and do lead happy lives and they have the compacity to love, often more than 'normal' people.

guess my point is that if they can have a happy life then whats the problem, why should we deny disabled children the chance of life if they can be happy.

 

[Jordan.J]

guess my point is that if they can have a happy life then whats the problem, why should we deny disabled children the chance of life if they can be happy.

good point.

 

[+Po1ntDeXt3r+]

I have two disabled cousins, i used to work at a special unit at a primary school, and i work at a home for disabled adults. so yeh i understand how hard it can be, but at the same time i understand how rewarding it can be.

because the reality of it .. is its expensive.. money makes the world go around..
as much as i hate to admit it.. puttin aside all the possibility of pain and happiness (difficult to quantify)..
our lives are judged on economic value.. its cruel but otherwise objective indicator..
u had to work "at a special unit at a primary school, and i work at a home for disabled adults" - increase responsibility which is sumfing not everyone is happy to do ..

if the Govt doesnt let abortions go ahead then they become responsible (diversion of funds from other areas that are already lacking) when the families cannot take care.. alternatively we tell everyone to STOP having sex.. cos the moment that penis approachs that vagina.. there is an incr risk of pregnancy and STI's.. but thats unrealistic

 

[+Po1ntDeXt3r+]

as a society we need the option of abortion..

economically we cannot afford to support every child .. disabled or not..
this is the problem with the Baby boomer era..
they are all approachin retirement.. incr health problems and not enuf tax payers to fund that.. old ppl die..
also we just cant cull them and u dun want them to live in poverty..
so howards baby gift... $3k to assist in supporting child births.. to make more taxpayers to cover the cost

if u want to stop an abortion.. do as asqy sed (nb. : only time i will agree with him) u pay for the child.. or u stop the parents having sex..

 

[Sophie777]

That was a general reply, I haven't read most of this thread but know people will be making that argument.

btw, anomalies = abnormalities.

I prefer to use stats from government sources, but anyway here are some stats (which are estimates based upon statistics).

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/abreasons.html



In 2003, in NSW there were 28,090 reported abortions. From these estimates (which are American btw, I'm assuming similarities with America), there were only 28 - 84 abortions that took place because the mothers life was at risk. As such, hypothetically abortions can be banned outright and can then be left to the discretion of doctors.

if you want to add foetal health, mothers physical health and rape incest, that only brings it to 70 + 8 + 56 + 280 + 112 = 526/28090 = 1.8% of cases. In all these cases, abortion can be hypothetically banned outright, with doctors deciding upon whether an abortion is needed.

I'll try to find some more appropriate stats though

I should add now, that I'm all for abortions btw

abortion isn't legal. doctors must always use discretion and consent.

 

[kat_mandu]

because the reality of it .. is its expensive.. money makes the world go around..
as much as i hate to admit it.. puttin aside all the possibility of pain and happiness (difficult to quantify)..
our lives are judged on economic value.. its cruel but otherwise objective indicator..
u had to work "at a special unit at a primary school, and i work at a home for disabled adults" - increase responsibility which is sumfing not everyone is happy to do ..

if the Govt doesnt let abortions go ahead then they become responsible (diversion of funds from other areas that are already lacking) when the families cannot take care.. alternatively we tell everyone to STOP having sex.. cos the moment that penis approachs that vagina.. there is an incr risk of pregnancy and STI's.. but thats unrealistic

all children go to school so i dont understand how sending your disabled child to school is any increase in responsibilty.

Im not against abortion completely, and dont agree that the government have the right to stop abortions from going ahead, women have to have a choice. however i dont believe in late term abortion, and dont think that the possibility of your child having a disability justifies late term abortion.

 

[glycerine]

but how can you possibly judge people for not wanting to have to give up their lives for their child? i don't know if i could ever have a late term abortion, but its not my place to judge those who do it because their child can't lead a normal life...

 

[crazyhomo]

guess my point is that if they can have a happy life then whats the problem, why should we deny disabled children the chance of life if they can be happy.

would you be willing to adopt a kid with down sydrome?

 

[+Po1ntDeXt3r+]

all children go to school so i dont understand how sending your disabled child to school is any increase in responsibilty.

Im not against abortion completely, and dont agree that the government have the right to stop abortions from going ahead, women have to have a choice. however i dont believe in late term abortion, and dont think that the possibility of your child having a disability justifies late term abortion.

actualli they are.. they are significantly more dependent than "average" children .. its as difficult as a child with ADHD (at least there is ritalin.. and i kno 8-10 ppl in med schools with clinical ADHD) but the learning disability also makes it harder to teach too

i think that if they are comfortable wit that.. it justifies it.. i dun hav a recognised disability, i would say that with some patients i interviews with their disability needs a full-time carer and some comment that they wouldnt wish their problems on another person..
if they had a choice to live or die?.. the depressed ones say one thing and the happy ones another.. late term abortion can protect an adults sanity its the one thing we are sure of

 

[kat_mandu]

would you be willing to adopt a kid with down sydrome?

yes, absolutly.

 

[glycerine]

I had an abortion. I'm not sorry.

 

[Phanatical]

It works fine. I have to say, having an abortion is Not something to be proud of. Just like having an incurable disease, or being a homosexual, or liking Australian Idol (obviously a symptom of cancer of the mind) are also not things to be proud of.

 

[glycerine]

asqy livejournal is a bit iffy at the moment, but i would read it, its a good read

she's not saying she's fucking proud, she says she's willing to admit that she had an abortion, and she's not sorry she did it, because it was the right decision. i feel exactly the same way. i think it's ridiculous that i feel like it's something i have to hide away, because i'm not sorry i did it.

and before anyone says anything about my openness here... this is an internet forum. the only people i know irl who would've read this thread... knew anyway. very few people know; my own parents and relatives do not know. while i'm not exactly ashamed, because of the current stigma i feel i have to conceal the fact i had an abortion, when in fact i made a mature, informed and ultimately correct decision to do with MY body. she is not trying to make people proud of the fact that they've had abortions; rather she is trying to destigmatise it and make the general public realise that there are plenty of women who have abortions who do NOT experience any negative mental impact.