The Beijing Olympics (3 Viewers)

[danlan]

Re: Nice One Mr. Rudd.

is human rights not a world issue?

The basic existence of some human beings is, actually.

 

[Slidey]

Re: Aussie Rules: Rudd rocks the world.

I think it's funny. We're so determined to not recognise greatness, bravery, heroism. THis stupid country, always trying to be pleased with their mediocre petty selves. Always dragging down, stamping out the good stuff.
Rudd IS awesome. What he's doing IS good. The world recognises this. Why cant we admit it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome

 

[Tulipa]

Re: Aussie Rules: Rudd rocks the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome

In Australia, tall poppy syndrome is thought to be on the wane

Pffffft. Yeah right.

 

[boris]

Re: Aussie Rules: Rudd rocks the world.

lol does it seriously say that on wiki.

sweet edit. i like wiki, it's so full of reliable information.

 

[Slidey]

Re: Aussie Rules: Rudd rocks the world.

Well it also gives reasoning for that claim. It's not like it gave a time-frame.

 

[littleVampire]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

if the Americans, Australians or anyone actually really support tibet in their human right issue, instead of just wanting to stuff up China from gaining any more economic advantage from the Olympics, then it should be an on-going support thing, not just during the short pre-olympics time period.

however im fairly certain this Tibet thing will be forgotten soon after the Olympics, and Tibet will remain the same. the people who started this support for "human rights violations" will be gone as fast as they began it. it will be pretty clear that the Tibet scandal is just a tool, in wanting to prevent China from being one of the top economic player.

 

[Gay Captain]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

if the Americans, Australians or anyone actually really support tibet in their human right issue, instead of just wanting to stuff up China from gaining any more economic advantage from the Olympics, then it should be an on-going support thing, not just during the short pre-olympics time period.

however im fairly certain this Tibet thing will be forgotten soon after the Olympics, and Tibet will remain the same. the people who started this support for "human rights violations" will be gone as fast as they began it. it will be pretty clear that the Tibet scandal is just a tool, in wanting to prevent China from being one of the top economic player.

true

they should look at their own government human rights abuses in Iraq and Guantanamo Bay before they criticize us Chinese

westerner don't understand our value so they shouldn't speak about us

look at their country, all you see is stupidest party getting vote, that's why we are overtaking them with our unified nation, they can't understand why we're becoming more economically & politically powerful than them so they pretend to care about tibet during olympic game

 

[Phoenix Fury]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

I'm actually starting to backflip on what I said earlier.

Maybe it would be safer for the athletes if they didn't go, as the Chinese are getting weirder. Terrorist plots uncovered and all that's going on.

 

[danlan]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

I'm actually starting to backflip on what I said earlier.

Maybe it would be safer for the athletes if they didn't go, as the Chinese are getting weirder. Terrorist plots uncovered and all that's going on.

I think you don't need to worry about that. At least Chinese government will try its best to ensure the security of foreign athletes. It's something about Chinese people's "face".

 

[Aralia]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=446882

 

[Slidey]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

Good link. It reminds me off the state-endorsed pop songs the oblivious citizens of Eurasia sang in 1984.

 

[Aralia]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

Pffffttt...it's not the song, it's the idea behind it, man.

We're being wronged. Big time.

P.s. Spelling classes would be useful.

 

[ZJ NingNing]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

Where is the evidence?

All news reports show footages of riot police patrolling in response to the burning and pillaging of shops and to Tibetans beating Chinese people to death. There are no actual footages of riot police clashing with these terrorists, let along of riot police giving them their just desserts.

The truth is that any government, whether democratic or authoritarian, communist or capitalist, would crush unrest on such a scale with the full force of the law (e.g. France race riots).

I totally agree with what you said here... well, except that Tibetians ARE actually Chinese people. you probably should have said Zhang people beating the Han people to death.

 

[ZJ NingNing]

I think the thread-starter isn't just referring to the events of the past week, but to the events of the past fifty or so years when the Chinse started occupying ibet and sent the Dalai Lama into exile. And while human rights violations might be proven then, boycotting the Olympics over something that happened fifty years ago is more than a bit silly. It didn't work in Moscow in 1980 - and that was over the invasion of Afghanistan in 1979 - and it didn't work in Los Angeles in 1984 (but that was a counter-boycott), so why should it work for Beijing in 2008 for something that happened in the 1950s-1960s?

I agree that it is more than just a bit silly to boycott Olympics for something that happened 50~60 years ago, but I think I need to point out the fact that before the Communist army 'invaded' Tibet, even more serious human rights issue was going on in Tibet.

If people actually study the event from a non-biased point of view, they will find that majority of Tibetians were slave laboured before the Communist army 'invaded' it. Now, the human rights issue is much, much less serious: the Tibetians are beating the Han people in their riots.

Some 'Tibetians' burnt a young Han girl to death in their riots.

What are you going to do, spank them? You think they're going to listen - or even care - if some countries pull out of the Olympic Games they're hosting? They'll probably see it as an opportunity to win more medals, if anything.

One day Tibet will be free. It might not be in our lifetimes, but it will be free. But boycotting the Olypmic Games isn't going to make it go any faster.

If you want to do something, don't call for a boycott just because everyone is. Find something worth devoting your attention to and fight for it. It might be Tibet or Darfur or whatever, but make sure you truly believe in it. Some people might say "yeah, I support Tibet's freedom", but other people will actually dedicate themselves to it. I've seen people call for all sorts of things, but they haven't meant it. They just did it because everyone else did. But I've also seen one person who actually believes in her causes ... and I've seen her do some of the most incredible things I have seen another human being do.

I am guessing that you are one of the people who believe in 'freeing Tibet' then?

I agree very very much with your opinion on 'finding something worth devoting your attention to and fight for it', but I want to remind people who are thinking of making 'freeing Tibet' their cause that they should do FULL UNBIASED research into the issue, and that means actually get to know both sides of the story, IN DEPTH.

one day Tibet MIGHT be free, but without good relationship with China, it will not be a very developed country, and that was probably the understatement of the century.

You mean during the past fifty years when the Chinese government freed Tibetans from feudal theocracy and practices like slavery, introduced secular education and scientific institutions, modern government, transport infrastructure and modern society. During this period Tibet's GDP increased 30 fold and average life expectancy increased by more than 30 years. Today, Tibetan monks are still permitted to practice their religion, traditional cultural sites are preserved etc. Of course, Tibetans still regard the Dalai Lama as some sort of divine entity they are slaves to and the Dalai still wants to return as ruler and bring Tibet back to feudal theocracy. All I can say about the Dalai's comments re 'cultural genocide' is that some cultures are superior to others.

I wanna add to your very true and well researched list of benefits Tibetians received that people in Tibet actually require a much lower HSC mark to get into Universities. Considering that HSC is probably one of the most important things for Chinese people, I would like to say that that is one HUGE benefit.

 

[Slidey]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

Pffffttt...it's not the song, it's the idea behind it, man.

Oh, I totally agree. That's why I likened it to the blind proles who sing such songs in 1984. Good book. You should read it; I think you'd really enjoy the idea of Big Brother and the Inner Party.

 

[ZJ NingNing]

Of course it did! Just look! 13 odd years after we boycotted the Zoolympics, the USSR disbanded.

THEY WERE LINKED.

Why the fuck would we boycott the Olympics. We get it - China are shit. But think of the big picture. THEY ARE GOING TO BE THE WORLD SUPERPOWER BY 2020! Oh hey, let's piss off the people who are going to be ruling the world next decade.

Cool.

you just gave me a very good reason to despise you. Not that you care of course, but it helps giving me peace.

Yes. China doesn't deserve the Olympics considering its attitude towards it and human rights.

Not that I ever watch the Olympics anyway.

'its attitude towards human rights.'? what do you know about China's attitude to human rights? and what is your source of evidence? did you research both sides of the story before you drew conclusion?

what most Western world is exposed to is a court hearing with only one party present to tell their version of story, and it wouldnt take an Einstein to work out which party is absent, will it?

Otherwise China will stop buying our Gas? LOL AHHAHAHAHahhahaha

I think you totally missed the point here. It is not about China buying our Gas or not, it is more about us knowing way too little about the history of China to draw a conclusion yet.

so I think everyone should keep an open mind to the issue in Tibet; both the Tibet supporters and Communism supporters.

Good luck trying to convice everyone to abandon the Olympic Games. It would be incredibly hypocritical to do that: China isn't the only place where human rights get abused. And in your own way, you'd be abusing the rights of other; some of the smaller countries get very little chance to show themselves on the world stage. Besides, you're still not considering what I said earlier: what if is there is some good in this perceived evil?

Take CFCs for example. We know they pollute and damage the ozone layer, so we banned them. But refrigerators used CFCs because they were cheap and fairly easy to make. To use them in places like Africa, home of some of the world's poorest countries, would improve the quality of life for them. Foodstuffs could be kept fresher, for longer, preventing famine and outbreaks of disease. But no, we banned CFCs because they polluted too much. Africa wouldn't always use CFCs; once they developed enough, they could simply stop using them. We wanted peace of mind that we were doing our part of the environment at te expense of some of the poorest people on earth. How can we expect them to develop when we keep holding them back?

Maybe we were right to stop using CFCs; I wouldn't know, and it's not my place to pass judgement on that here and now. It's a question of whether the good outweighs bad. In the context of the Olympics, China is bad because they're occupying Tibet. It would therefore be good to boycott the Beijing Olympics. So far, so good. But what actual good would the boycott cause? Or, in other words, how would it lessen the evil? The answer is that a boycott does nothing. In some circumstances, it may increase that evil because the boycott is motivated by clearing our consciences rather than actually helping Tibet. Therefore, the good does not counter-act the evil.

The alternative, however, is to participate in the Games. The Olympics are designed to promote properity and unity among the world. Paticipating adds to that; not partipating removes from it. Therefore, there is more good in participating rather than boycotting, even if it does not change the situation in Tibet. It simply keeps the balance between good and evil in a state of equilbrium, whereas boycotting will remove from the good. A boycott is not the answer. Not unless we can organise one that would be wholly removed from our own selfish desires of a clear consience.

I find your comments very thought-provoking and you yourself a very wise person, although politically I cannot agree with you.

But because I admire your logic, I would like spend my time asking you to hear the Chinese government's point of view before deciding that China is not doing the right things.

Just wondering, have you read _dhj_'s comment on how much China has done for the people in Tibet? I have quoted it about 5 comments above this one.

You mean what works for an unelected elite?

The country is fucked. Population is no excuse; see India and compare contentment, freedom, and development factors.



China is nowhere near as important to Australia as you make it sound. They're like a mosquito to us; we have so many other partners, and so many important resources that even if China for some reason decided to cut off trade, we'd quickly recover.

Against my better judgement I decided not to ignore your comments. I just want you to remember what you said in this thread and think about it 60 years later, and then decide whether you were right.

 

[ari89]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

lol

 

[ZJ NingNing]

Major Export Partner: Japan 20.3%, China 11.5%, South Korea 7.9%, US 6.7%, New Zealand 6.5%, India 5%

Major Import Partner: U.S 13.9%, China 13.7%, Japan 11%, Singapore 5.6%, Germany 5.6%

Australian GDP: $645.3 billion (17th)

China GDP: $3.42 trillion (4th)

The difference between humans and other animals is that humans think beyond the present, that humans analyse and find a trend, that humans use logic and research to try and predict the future. And lets see how much this statistic changes in a few years time.

OIS, I didn't come back to this thread 'til now...
Anyhoo.

First you claim banning CFCs was bad then you say you have no place to lol.
Btw, conscience*

I don't consider one-line provocative questions to be an argument. Nor am I interested in one.
But I will say this: The Olympics = money
Money = power
Power in China = disaster

The rich get richer the poor get poorer.
I understand what you're saying, but giving the "enemy" more money and saying "Oh yeah, you're cruel, but we came for our own selfish reasons to win some medals" doesn't justify anything... We have a "moral and ethical responsibility". I personally believe humans should look out for each other. If we never did, we wouldn't last very long.

Besides all the stuffs I have already said, I want to ask you a question that I want everyone else here to consider as well, it is blind spot for many people:

Boycotting the Olympics 2008 = Boycotting China (well, almost...)
but Boycotting China doesnt equal boycotting the Chinese government.

if you will think about it, boycotting the Olympics will first insult the 1.3 billion people in China that had almost nothing to do with politics (the civilians) and when they feel they are insulted by the Western world, they turn their eyes on something else that will back them up... and it will not be hard to see the Chinese government that is also insulted by the boycott. The Chinese people who were against their government will turn to support it (or at least hate it less) and the people who are already supporting the government will support it more. For all we know, the Chinese government will probably benefit from the boycott as the support of Chinese people is the most important thing to the Communist party.

And from what I gather, the people who are boycotting the Olympics are people who claim themselves to be the Human Rights activists. but by boycotting the Olympics, they are abusing the rights of many civilians in China, (they tried so hard in the past few years to make the overseas people like us feel welcome) isnt this a little hypocritical of the so called 'human rights activists'?

Do a google search, sigh. I really can't be bothered.

thank you, you proved my point exactly. you are doing exactly what the Western media is doing: making judgements without doing a sound research.

there is this German paper that got a photograph of two riot police dragging a man away from the riot. and the paper published this huge article on how the police is capturing the man. But two days later, that same man spoke up and said that he was a Han being bashed by the Zhang people (aboriginals of Tibet) and the police was rescueing him.

 

[Aralia]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

Thank god somebody's on our side...*hugs NingNing*.

The media reports are really biased, plus the Tibetans write up all those lists of people being killed/prosecuted by the government...then turns out that those so-called victims don't even exist, amongst other holes.

Don't be too naive about it all, even if you're good hearted. There're no human rights issues in China.

The cat's out of the bag. It's the beginning of the end for all those lies. Argument over.

Boycott all you like. even if it's cancelled for this year, we have the whole century ahead.

 

[dieburndie]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

Someone's probably already pointed it out, but the chinese nationalism in this thread is equally as hilarious as the serbian nationalism in the Kosovo thread.

If your country of birth is so fantastic then why did you leave?