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the hsc cannot tell you how smart you are. discuss (1 Viewer)

stazi

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most people don't go to school in the eastern suburbs, idiot.
why am I saying that people with low uais are also anti-social? Where?
Does being in uni automatically mean that you can't discuss general topics?
 

funnybunny

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Ayslum, I understand what you say bu thave you actually met in really life a person A and person B? The SC isn't really a better example except maybe for english. Science, history, geography, mathematics people actually studied for them (though i didn't and still got good marks...i was saving my energy for the hsc yr :p)
 

stazi

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samk00 said:
and finally, is "intelligence" really measureable or quantifiable ?
yes. the most 'accurate' measures are the WAIS-R test and the Stanford-Biner IV test which provide a highly correlated IQ using various reliability measures.
 

_dhj_

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AsyLum said:
We have people in here who got 90+ and 80+ are doing better than most 95+ people in their respective areas. I think you're post is just a feeble attempt to try and hide the fact, you have no idea what the hell you're talking about because you are still stuck in the bubble world of high school.

Intelligence equates to nothing without actual 'action' is all good an well, until you realise that we're talking about a single moment being a sign of intelligence. What we have presented is the possible, and very real scenario that someone may not be motivated, for factors only they could know, but at a later stage find and become successful.

One of the key issues within the understaffed/underresourced school system is that there are kids who are bright and intelligent, but get bored through the Year 9-10 phase, and because of lack of support or necessary resources to identify such students, that they tend to get bored, unmotivated and lack the same direction as those in better staffed or motivated backgrounds. So please, no more of this "oh unmotivated people are idiots and aren't smart."
You don't actually need to be motivated to do well in the HSC.
 

funnybunny

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"We have people in here who got 90+ and 80+ are doing better than most 95+ people in their respective areas." You can't compare pepople doing different courses. Besides maybe other things not just marks come into it.

"hy am I saying that people with low uais are also anti-social? Where? " Sazi..u didn't say that, Captain Gh3y, I did...please read posts properly
 

stazi

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funnybunny said:
"We have people in here who got 90+ and 80+ are doing better than most 95+ people in their respective areas." You can't compare pepople doing different courses. Besides maybe other things not just marks come into it.

"hy am I saying that people with low uais are also anti-social? Where? " Sazi..u didn't say that, Captain Gh3y, I did...please read posts properly
Oh and in the UAI people are doing exactly the same courses, I suppose?

I'm willing to bet..." Hang on so your're saying that even ppl who get low uais are also anti-social?
^ You quoted my post. So one can assume that you were responding to me.
If you want me to read your posts properly, then stop typing like a dyslexic incoherent fuckwit. Thankyou :eek:

And hold on, 'other things, not just marks, come into it' - you keep saying that you're not intelligent if you can't get a high UAI, so, wouldn't it be safe to assume that other things, not just marks, also come into the UAI?
 
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AsyLum

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funnybunny said:
Ayslum, I understand what you say bu thave you actually met in really life a person A and person B? The SC isn't really a better example except maybe for english. Science, history, geography, mathematics people actually studied for them (though i didn't and still got good marks...i was saving my energy for the hsc yr :p)
Yes, i gave the example of the Dux of my school, and my friend who is doing B Comm-Actuarial Studies, heck if i needed to I could most likely find you an example for every scenario you want.

The SC, i scored all 97+ in all my subjects, a 99 in English, i practically failed Maths in year 12 because i just didn't care, and still ended up with a high Band 4, I forgot how to differentiate, basic calculus, trigonometry during the HSC. I got an 86.10, and wasn't particularly fussed about it, i didn't know what to get into, and was aiming for law, because of past dreams. I have since found that i have a passion for music, ancient history, philosophy, media and teaching.

My motivation to study has been reinvigorated after getting into uni and doing a few random subjects, and now love it. Last year i competed with fresh graduates of the 04 year, and scored an 85 in a core Media subject, past people who got higher UAIs than i did.

Want further examples?
 

Benny1103

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If we're talking about people who want to do a trade then we can't just call them smart or stupid based on the HSC, fair enough.

So NTB is a model of high intelligence? Ok. Would I be correct in saying that during his HSC he wanted to get into law? In that case he would have wanted a reasonably high (>90 or thereabouts) UAI as it would allow him direct entry into law in a HECs place. So if that is the case then he would've wanted to work towards an adequate UAI for his course. However, he failed to achieve the required UAI for a HECs place. Now if he is actually intelligent, and seeing that his goal involves obtaining a HECs place, then why didn't he achieve a high enough UAI? In his case, what transpired doesn't indicate the level of intelligence which some people have said that he has.

(In the above paragraph, there the is the logical implicit assumption that his family wasn't a total wreck finanically (in fact from what I've seen on BOS, his family is quite the opposite), nor was did he have any significant learning issues etc. I needed to point that out because invariably, some retard would have nitpicked and said 'zomg he m1gh7 h4v3 h4d isSu3zzz!!!oneoneone.')

Although I must applaud his self control. Unlike some of the idiots who through insufficiently high marks, whether it be through stupidity or laziness, failed to achieve a transfer or get into their desired course , NTB has not resorted to racist remarks.

What's with the racist stereotypes? You don't see others saying 'aussie' sluts. Oh wait sorry, aussie was a superfluous word. See, if you don't like it then don't make racist remarks either. I personally don't like stereotypes but that was necessary to show people the folly of stereotypes and racism.
 

samk00

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stazi said:
yes. the most 'accurate' measures are the WAIS-R test and the Stanford-Biner IV test which provide a highly correlated IQ using various reliability measures.
intelligence in not something that can be quantified by a test, i'll bet that if that same person took that same test (with different questions) the next day he would achieve a different result everytime, what if the person is sick or stressed ? i really dont believe these "tests" can quantify "intelligence".
 

AsyLum

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funnybunny said:
"We have people in here who got 90+ and 80+ are doing better than most 95+ people in their respective areas." You can't compare pepople doing different courses. Besides maybe other things not just marks come into it.
And there we have it folks, he's admitted to the prime point we've been trying to get out of him for 5-6 pages.
_dhj_ said:
You don't actually need to be motivated to do well in the HSC.
Sure you dont, but im offering the argument and trying to separate the two as mutually exclusive events, rather than complimentary. They are factors which contribute to your success, it hardly means that because of a high UAI one can attain intelligence.
Benny1103 said:
Now if he is actually intelligent, and seeing that his goal involves obtaining a HECs place, then why didn't he achieve a high enough UAI?
Heres an answer:

funnybunny said:
Besides maybe other things not just marks come into it.
 
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stazi

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samk00 said:
intelligence in not something that can be quantified by a test, i'll bet that if that same person took that same test (with different questions) the next day he would achieve a different result everytime, what if the person is sick or stressed ? i really dont believe these "tests" can quantify "intelligence".
You asked if it can be quantified - I said, yes, it can. Whether it can measure intelligence completelly accurately in the holistic sense of the word, it can't. However both tests are the most accurate measures.
The reason those tests are highly correlated is because if that person took that test at different times, they would have a .90+ correlation to them taking the test at other times.

Again, though, I don't think they are great measures of intelligence, as there are many types (as I have mentioned previously). I get fairly 'low' IQs (about 114 last time I checked), yet consider myself to be highly intelligent (sorry about the lack of modesty) as does anyone else I meet who has a deep conversation with me.
 

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Can’t believe people are still fighting over this pitiful shit,

In the end it comes down to who can make the most money in the future from their job and believe me like 95% of the people in this forum will never get over a 100k a year.
 

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Ok, I realise I probably made some unfair racist remarks in my frustration. For that I apologise.
 

Benny1103

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Thanks for the insightful answer Asylum. I'll be sure to keep that one as my trump card when my interviewer asks me why I'm applying for the job even though I don't have the relevant skills. Yes, what I just said is context dependent, but it's the same as your answer, in which you took that other guy's comment out of context. In any case, my guess is as good as yours. What you've provided me isn't an answer, it's really just a way to dodge the question. Of course, what you've said will be true if NTB comes on and says that he prefers paying the extra thousands of dollars over a hecs place.
 

AsyLum

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Benny1103 said:
Thanks for the insightful answer Asylum. I'll be sure to keep that one as my trump card when my interviewer asks me why I'm applying for the job even though I don't have the relevant skills. Yes, what I just said is context dependent, but it's the same as your answer, in which you took that other guy's comment out of context. In any case, my guess is as good as yours. What you've provided me isn't an answer, it's really just a way to dodge the question. Of course, what you've said will be true if NTB comes on and says that he prefers paying the extra thousands of dollars over a hecs place.
We've provided you and funnybunny with 6 pages of answers, you refuse to accept or even consider them or critique them past "thats wrong" "that doesnt work" "that's absurd" Dont patronise me when you have offered very little in terms of a logical response to anything in this thread.

We have detailed examples, and logically showed you instances where the UAI/HSC might not be a true measure of intelligence. You have as of yet, failed to rectify that. The burden of proof has been placed on you, we have provided counter-arguments, very logical and very real examples which contradicts your notions.
 

stazi

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7th Sign said:
Can’t believe people are still fighting over this pitiful shit,

In the end it comes down to who can make the most money in the future from their job and believe me like 95% of the people in this forum will never get over a 100k a year.
Yep, because income is a much more valid measure of intelligence :rollseyes"
 

Not-That-Bright

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So NTB is a model of high intelligence? Ok. Would I be correct in saying that during his HSC he wanted to get into law?
No - I planned to go to billy blue and do a digital media course.

In that case he would have wanted a reasonably high (>90 or thereabouts) UAI as it would allow him direct entry into law in a HECs place. So if that is the case then he would've wanted to work towards an adequate UAI for his course. However, he failed to achieve the required UAI for a HECs place. Now if he is actually intelligent, and seeing that his goal involves obtaining a HECs place, then why didn't he achieve a high enough UAI? In his case, what transpired doesn't indicate the level of intelligence which some people have said that he has.
I scored well in the RET test and go into UWS law. Even if I had been trying for law all throughout my hsc how does that show that I have low intelligence? Perhaps that year I just wasn't committed enough due to distractions? Perhaps I just wasn't as intelligent 2 years ago as I am now?.. did you actually read my former post on the subject of intelligence?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_(trait) said:
a very general mental capability that, among other things, involves the ability to reason, plan, solve problems, think abstractly, comprehend complex ideas, learn quickly and learn from experience. It is not merely book learning, a narrow academic skill, or test-taking smarts. Rather, it reflects a broader and deeper capability for comprehending our surroundings—"catching on", "making sense" of things, or "figuring out" what to do. (reprinted in Gottfredson, 1997, p. 13)
(In the above paragraph, there the is the logical implicit assumption that his family wasn't a total wreck finanically (in fact from what I've seen on BOS, his family is quite the opposite), nor was did he have any significant learning issues etc. I needed to point that out because invariably, some retard would have nitpicked and said 'zomg he m1gh7 h4v3 h4d isSu3zzz!!!oneoneone.')
Just because you come from a wealthy family doesn't mean you don't have issues lol I have no idea where you come out claiming I had no issues, I did post about my issues once on BOS in a spur of the moment type thing but I think I might have deleted it. I think you might find that not everyone is an open book when it comes to their life ;)

Although I must applaud his self control. Unlike some of the idiots who through insufficiently high marks, whether it be through stupidity or laziness, failed to achieve a transfer or get into their desired course , NTB has not resorted to racist remarks.
I applaud my own self control in the face of how ridiculous funnybunny's posts have been... Anyway I'm not totally 'HSC /= INTELLIGENCE!', I think that alot of people whom claim that are simplifying the situation... but at the same time I think the same of people that believe the complete opposite.

Of course, what you've said will be true if NTB comes on and says that he prefers paying the extra thousands of dollars over a hecs place.
I'm not doing a fee paying course :/
 

funnybunny

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he's admitted to the prime point we've been trying to get out of him for 5-6 pages. Please don't put this out of context. Here i am talking about uni courses. And OF COURSE other things come into play OBVIOUSLY, i never SAID IT WOULDN'T. I also didn't say that it applies to EVERYONE. Get the facts right mate!!! READ the thread agian "the hsc cannot tell you how smart you are" My answer was that it can in MANY cases but it wouldn't if ou are disabled etc

"Want further examples?" Yes i know a friend of a friend who didn't. What know.. You can't just prove your ideas by reffering to one rare case. dduuurrrh! Since you have a lot of time and don't knoe wat to do..yea give me more examples

Besides if you get a high uai, you are intelligent. Belive it or not, it takes some intellect to get a high uai. You're making it seem that anyone can get 99+.

Brogan_77...OK

"Yep, because income is a much more valid measure of intelligence :rollseyes"" If you CAN ACTUALLY read posts PROPERLY he was saying that money is what matters in life. rofl

This thread has been over for quite a time now. belive it or not, it takes some intellect to get a high uai. Now i must go feast while watching the cricket. :p
 
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