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the hsc cannot tell you how smart you are. discuss (1 Viewer)

Benny1103

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I scored well in the RET test and go into UWS law. Even if I had been trying for law all throughout my hsc how does that show that I have low intelligence? Perhaps that year I just wasn't committed enough due to distractions? Perhaps I just wasn't as intelligent 2 years ago as I am now?.. did you actually read my former post on the subject of intelligence?
Mate, unless the distractions that you speak of are major ones which are out of your control such as mental disabilities, physical problems, severe financial hardship etc. then what you've said means very little. You do realise that almost every person who has gone through the HSC has had problems of one kind or another right? Unless you had major problems then you have no excuse for performing below what you needed. So supposing that you didn't have major problems and you missed out on the required UAI due to distractions then that indicates stupidity on your part because getting the required UAI (whatever it may have been) was your goal and yet you let peripheral issues get in the way.

As for quoting wikipedia...can't entries be submitted by anyone who registers with that website? It's not really a valid 'source' and it is by no means an authority on the matter of intelligence. In any case, it is quite apparent from the posts in this thread that indicators of intelligence are different according to different people. So referencing an author or a book doesn't add credibility to what has been claimed in that article.

Just because you come from a wealthy family doesn't mean you don't have issues lol I have no idea where you come out claiming I had no issues, I did post about my issues once on BOS in a spur of the moment type thing but I think I might have deleted it. I think you might find that not everyone is an open book when it comes to their life
I would've thought that at this age, people would understand that there are underlying assumptions in pretty much everyone's comments. I shouldn't need to make it explicit that I was also assuming that you had no major physical and mental issues either. Assuming that you did/do have those things, you could've easily just said you had major problems during your HSC (you wouldn't even need to go into the details, a simple mention of your problems would've sufficed). Oh by the way, lack of motivation to get into a course you wanted to gain entrance top is not a 'major problem.'

I applaud my own self control in the face of how ridiculous funnybunny's posts have been... Anyway I'm not totally 'HSC /= INTELLIGENCE!', I think that alot of people whom claim that are simplifying the situation... but at the same time I think the same of people that believe the complete opposite.
Well at least what you've said here makes sense. I don't think anyone here has said that the HSC is an all encompassing and absolute measure of intelligence. What has gotten to people are the t00ls who have said or implied that if you rote learn you are guaranteed a 99+ UAI which is not true, in fact, far from it.
 

Not-That-Bright

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Mate, unless the distractions that you speak of are major ones which are out of your control such as mental disabilities, physical problems, severe financial hardship etc. then what you've said means very little. You do realise that almost every person who has gone through the HSC has had problems of one kind or another right?
Oh yes and I wasn't claiming that I had... I said my goal wasn't to get into law, and was just providing explanations for how even if it was my goal why that does not make me stupid.

Unless you had major problems then you have no excuse for performing below what you needed. So supposing that you didn't have major problems and you missed out on the required UAI due to distractions then that indicates stupidity on your part because getting the required UAI (whatever it may have been) was your goal and yet you let peripheral issues get in the way.
Wow, so you're putting forward the idea that unless you had serious problems during your hsc if you did bad you are stupid? It seems rather odd to me that one test can be such an accurate measurement of a persons overall intelligence over their life.

As for quoting wikipedia...can't entries be submitted by anyone who registers with that website? It's not really a valid 'source' and it is by no means an authority on the matter of intelligence.
The author(s) of that wiki page cite several studies, look them up and argue against them if you want... it's a fine source :/

In any case, it is quite apparent from the posts in this thread that indicators of intelligence are different according to different people. So referencing an author or a book doesn't add credibility to what has been claimed in that article.
While of course nothing is ultimately definable... the consensus view of what intelligence is by academics studying it should surely be worth while taking into consideration for our own argument over the matter?

I would've thought that at this age, people would understand that there are underlying assumptions in pretty much everyone's comments. I shouldn't need to make it explicit that I was also assuming that you had no major physical and mental issues either. Assuming that you did/do have those things, you could've easily just said you had major problems during your HSC (you wouldn't even need to go into the details, a simple mention of your problems would've sufficed).
I had no problem understanding what you were saying... and I did understand that there were underlying assumptions. You assumed that since I am from a wealthy background that I do not have any physical / family / mental issues... I called you on this.

Oh by the way, lack of motivation to get into a course you wanted to gain entrance top is not a 'major problem.'
I never claimed it was a problem... I simply pointed out that I never wanted to do law at university until it was too late (after hsc)... I was planning on doing digital media for a long time but after consultation with one of the industry 'big wigs' i realised it wasn't for me.

Well at least what you've said here makes sense.
Where haven't I made sense?

I don't think anyone here has said that the HSC is an all encompassing and absolute measure of intelligence.
Well they seem to believe it's something very close to it.

What has gotten to people are the t00ls who have said or implied that if you rote learn you are guaranteed a 99+ UAI which is not true, in fact, far from it.
Fair enough.

Essentially I put my bad UAI down to a lack of interest in the HSC. Since year 4 I'd wanted to be an 'artist' and since year 7 i'd wanted to do digital media. This was my life-long goal, I had little interest in other things... I didn't find any of the HSC work difficult, I just didn't spend as much time on it because I felt it didn't matter to me - I spent alot more time working on a good portfolio for future digital work.

I don't see how this makes me stupid? Perhaps I lacked the foresight to see that I may one day have different aspirations that require a high uai, however at the time I knew and had 'known' for a long time what my future would be.
 
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Benny1103

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Wow, so you're putting forward the idea that unless you had serious problems during your hsc if you did bad you are stupid? It seems rather odd to me that one test can be such an accurate measurement of a persons overall intelligence over their life.
Well of course what I said doesn't apply if the person doesn't want to go to uni. As I see it, if someone has no real issues to deal with and puts in a considerable amount of effort, then they should do quite well. I'm not saying that they would definitely obtain a perfect score for the subjects they put effort into, but I highly doubt that they'd completely stuff up an exam (<50%).

The stupidity doesn't necessarily lie in the actual score that they end up getting. But rather, it shows up when someone who knows what they want to get into, doesn't even put a considerable amount of work into their subjects. And to me, good judgment certainly falls under intelligence.

I don't see how this makes me stupid? Perhaps I lacked the foresight to see that I may one day have different aspirations that require a high uai, however at the time I knew and had 'known' for a long time what my future would be.
In this case I would say that it doesn't make you stupid so I take back what may have been implied in some of my previous posts. When I believe to be stupid, I have outlined in this post.
 

rach_06

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This can be viewed twofold. To a certain extent the HSC does tell and test how smart you are. It tests your ability to relate the information that is learned in class and through extra readings in both test and take home task situations. This has been changed to differing types of tasks to accomodate for differing types of peoples and how they are able to learn and evaluate materal e.g. oral and written and possibly many more............. Though the information that most people relate is just the processed thoughts of other people in order to attain what is thought to be the correct answer. So in reality the HSC is not testing how smart you are its testing how you are able to critique others views and ideas into a formulated answer which is both to make sense whilst hopefully answering the question. In this attaining a HSC mark and UAI that is desired by community standards and hopefully your own.


If you fail you fail and if you pass well then you pass. The HSC is not the be all and end all as so many poeple have often being said to quote. It is but merely a stepping stone on a very very long and winding path. Some of the most richest and successful people failed their HSC yet they own multimillion dollar corporations so in failing their HSC are they in fact stupid but then how are they able to operate corporations worth millions. And this is where my final answer hopefully making sense lies ................The HSC tests but one small and insignificant side of a persons smartness in saying this i mean it tests a limited side of what a person is able to discuss and process. In the world there is a right, wrong and in between which mostly the HSC does not test, that is the IN BETWEEN not the right or the wrong and in this life skills and choices that one gets bye.

Though i might add that one is possibly stupid that if they if on failing the HSC do not still go onto persue what they want to do merely by a mark that is reflected by study that is taken up by merely a year or two...........the path to knowledge and success is long very long and hard won..........though for some lucky people it is very short !

I may be wrong ...........but i would like to hear comments on what i have said whether you agree or disagree !
 
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Not-That-Bright

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Some of the most richest and successful people failed their HSC yet they own multimillion dollar corporations
O RLY? Examples please :/

but then how are they able to operate corporations worth millions
Jennifer lopez runs a huge corporation... Personally I don't think she's all that smart, she just has alot of money because she's hot.
 

funnybunny

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ummm....we're talkin about the majority here, not-that-bright....lopez is one in a million, so it's simply stupid to back up ur arguments with such data...and oh yea,..last time i checked, the hsc isn't 1 exam...it's a collection of exams spanning an year! HAV U ACTUALLY DONE THE HSC???
then again, u cant realli expect much from sum1 who thinks the university of sydney is in America...

oy, Damage Inc., everythin u post seems 2 hav no basis or argument..it seems that ur tryin 2 cover up ur stupidity with "fag", etc....this isnt a playground..it's a forum..so plz, next time, TAKE the time 2 think and reply with a more meaningful post (i.e with more than 1 syllable)...that's if u hav the intellect 2 do so...if not, i am SOOO sorry ...i'm simply a meany meany that exposes the stupidity of ppl (not that i needed 2 expoose urs) ...btw u prob cant comprehend all this, so if u feel ur brain overheating (i.e getting hot) then it's normal for idiots like u,even when confronted with the simplest of arguments..

ANYWAY, the bottom line is that yes, the hsc cannot tell how smart you are....BUT it can tell u how stupid u are....esp if u've been studying ur ass off and still only manage 2 scrape high 90s...
 
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stazi

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funnybunny said:
ummm....we're talkin about the majority here, not-that-bright....lopez is one in a million, so it's simply stupid to back up ur arguments with such data...and oh yea,..last time i checked, the hsc isn't 1 exam...it's a collection of exams spanning an year! HAV U ACTUALLY DONE THE HSC???
then again, u cant realli expect much from sum1 who thinks the university of sydney is in America...

oy, Damage Inc., everythin u post seems 2 hav no basis or argument..it seems that ur tryin 2 cover up ur stupidity with "fag", etc....this isnt a playground..it's a forum..so plz, next time, TAKE the time 2 think and reply with a meaningful post...

ANYWAY, the bottom line is that
Ok, now I'm convinced that this must be a joke account.
 

Not-That-Bright

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Almost? this guy has been posting since the beginning of last year... he's made different posts all in the same fashion and asking questions you would expect such a person given his true story to ask...

If it's a troll, he has taken trolling to a new level.
 

funnybunny

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pfftt... u do realise that humour is different 2 sarcasm?
OOOPSS...of course u wouldnt...
"nuances" ...WOOOW...u've used a word thats more than 1 syllable!....ur brain must be really overheating now..
in closing, i'll say somethin that u might actually understand : may the flea that climbed up your ass find happiness!!
 
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Abtari

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krabby_me said:
It could be shown that the HSC does not show how smart you are by a series of studies. The HSC is a mixture of motivation/memory and how much you want to follow society.
If you follow everyone else and decide to be a doctor then you are following the masses. The mass of people fail in life.
Being smart is NOT telling teachers what they wanted to hear. Smart is the ability to adapt well to new situations in order to make positive decsions.
In english last year most people regurgitated what they wanted the teacher to hear. I told my opinions and a as a result got low marks. I decided to see how smart everyone else was, and i decided to regurgiatate what the teacher wanted in my trials.
Suprise suprise, i received much much higher marks.

The ability to learn and adapt will help you much more in life and uni rather then regurgitating other peoples ideas, ideas that have already been praised. Ideas that will not bring success.
u cant judge who in life is successful or not. failure is relative, and like beauty, is in the eyes of the beholder.
 

HotShot

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if u get 100% in 4unit math - u arent necessarily smart (but u very well could be).
Smartness refers to i feel how you think, rather than whether u can answer factual questions.

Remember this, we study for exams (and most ppl are too lazy to study), and so exams arent a good indication of smartness, because obviously the person with best memory will ace it.

so smartness refers to whole lot of aspects, how u play sports, what u eat? and how u dress?

the exam isnt an indication of smartness, rather an indication of ur memory and how hard u can work.
 

Benny1103

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HotShot said:
Remember this, we study for exams (and most ppl are too lazy to study), and so exams arent a good indication of smartness, because obviously the person with best memory will ace it.

so smartness refers to whole lot of aspects, how u play sports, what u eat? and how u dress?

the exam isnt an indication of smartness, rather an indication of ur memory and how hard u can work.
Roflmao...Dressing for the occasion, tactics you decide to use in sport and sensible eating are all based on making the right decisions for that particular situation. The same goes for exams, you make the choice to study or not study. The things you refer to as 'smart' are not distinct from your choices with regard to study. You need to continually repeat the same thing over and over again to get better in sport. It's the same with study, so if you can be intelligent for being good at sport, then you can be intelligent if you are able to study well and execute during the exam.

If your goal is to get into a Uni course which requires a reasonably high UAI then choosing to study is a decision, no different from choosing healthy foods to eat. So I don't see how you can make a distinction between study and things like sport, eating, dressing up, with regard to 'smartness.'

As for that other person...I don't know how I missed what he said but omfg. Read my posts. Your arguments about low UAI != lack of intelligence are specific to people who want to pursue something which does not require a uni qualification. Ok, nothing wrong with that. However, you continually and repeatedly FAIL (as usual) to see that my arguments relate to the situation in which people do wish to go to uni. In such cases(with the usual exception of those with disabilities, major problems etc.), low UAI does equal low intelligence. This is because the person has made the choice to not study and hence do badly even though they know need a reasonably high UAI (of course this also excludes people who were in situations like NTB's). Intelligence encompasses making the right choice and if you can't even do that, then you have low intelligence. Simple enough 'logic' (I don't believe that I am associating that word with you considering what you've said in this thread thus far) for you?
 
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_dhj_

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HotShot said:
if u get 100% in 4unit math - u arent necessarily smart (but u very well could be).
Smartness refers to i feel how you think, rather than whether u can answer factual questions.
You never did 4u maths right? ;) About 2 people scored 100% in the last 15 years. (correct me if I'm wrong)
 

blackfriday

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maths is one of those subjects that cannot be subjectively marked and is usually a good indication of a person's powers of logic, deduction and aptitude - which im sure all acounts towards intelligence.
 

ur_inner_child

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my rough run on the types of intelligence that there can be

logic
deduction
aptitude.... good work blackfriday
creativity/imagination
expression (ie eloquence and communicating your ideas, whether in writing, speaking, music, art, drama etc)
applied problem solving
social skills that better yourself
social skills that better others
workplace skills - (i may have been intelligent at school but im a clutz at work, and i'm not quite sure why that is.)
reasoning - (i think of english essays when i wrote that)
perseverance - i feel that far too many intelligent people just 'cant be bothered' or just can't work under pressure

and some others.

i feel some of these forms of intelligence are not adequetly measured in the hsc for being subjective, as many have stated. my music majorwork was marked poorly in the hsc, but got me a scholarship to usyd. WTF

Out in the world, being book-smart is not enough. I also feel that the transition from year 12 to uni, where uni is usually more specialised than year 12, your uai doesnt seem to give a good indication of your intelligence when the system (eg uni and the workforce) seems to centre around specialisation, rather than having 10 units of unrelated courses (unless you do a broad degree).

i also feel that there are many very intelligent people who are lacking in certain areas or unable to use the very things they have learnt and apply it to real life. eg justifying your claims through evidence, or being able to empathise with another, or truly understand reasoning.

eg, i know a person who scores 97 UAI say:

"how can you not believe in God?
The world exists, therefore God exists"

and disregarding the religious side of things, it is simply unlike her, judging from her subjects, to use such reasoning, as she did 4u maths, and a few sciences.

.
.
.



EDIT: although by no means do i say that the hsc is entirely faulty. i feel that it is a good measure, but it is not an entire measure, or the flawless one.

I don't mean to so sound like I'm playing the pity card, but I moved out in year 12 so I could choose my own subjects (my parents wanted to choose for me) and other such disputes. If i had an accepting family I feel I could've done better, but I feel that the UAI I received isn't the measure of my intelligence, where my attention was focussed on seizing my life, rather than grades, and aiming for the uni i want through my majorworks/portfolio.

And i feel I would, 90% of the time, kick ass in life skills than others would.

end rant.
 
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goldendawn

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I agree with your point of view about the HSC and the different manifestations of intelligence, ur_inner_child, but I think that this person was alluding to "intelligent design" theory through her line of reasoning.
 

ur_inner_child

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goldendawn said:
I agree with your point of view about the HSC and the different manifestations of intelligence, ur_inner_child, but I think that this person was alluding to "intelligent design" theory through her line of reasoning.
i was just ranting :)
 

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