Uni students pay dearly for cutbacks (2 Viewers)

[Newbie]

sorry i disagree here

i personally think user pays principle is totally inappropriate for something like tertiary studies. improved quality of human capital would contribute way more to australia than any efficency gained from user pays would.

i may not have read policy documents but i cant see from my perspective how funding cuts, raising the quota of fee paying students,etc would NOT promote inequality

 

[flyin']

Originally posted by Minai
I'd say harder..
with UAI cutoffs increasing every year as it is

And that makes transferin' harder... so watch-out Minai, you might need a High high high distinction average.

 

[SoFTuaRiaL]

Originally posted by Lazarus
Would you prefer the alternative?

thats why i should be prime minister

 

[Raiks]

You got to uni to earn tertiary qualifications so you can become more employable and get better employment opportunities.... shouldn't one have to pay for that. Having the government pay for tertiary education so everyone has an equal chance of getting better employment opportunities is like saying that the government should pay for all cosmetic surgery so everyone has the equal chance of becoming a supermodel.

 

[cambi]

fuck the government. they want a more educated workforce and yet they still make unis cut back even more places!!! grrr

 

[Newbie]

Originally posted by melbournian
Why is it not appropriate having user pays in tertiary education, when it has existed in secondary, primary and even kindergarten etc.

umm no wtf.....public schools.....? or dont they count?

Originally posted by melbournian

However, if people are prepared to pay and remain qualified (note, I am not saying equally qualified as equality is an illusionary objective in a capitalist society) then I fail to see the problem.

the problem is that rising uni fees will be a disincentive for tertiary study and that increasing fee paying quotas will jeopardise the integrity of the whole point of the hsc, uai and all the other forms of academic evaluation as a means of determining uni entrance.

someone whos worked hard for the hsc, but misses out on a university because of the uni reforms which led to the spot that he deserved being taken by a kid who can pay his way in. i think theres something very wrong with that.

Originally posted by melbournian

Should someone who never will step foot into a university be forced to pay for (it)

you've just pointed out the flaw in a user pays system. if all of the governments social obligations were based on this assumption, there would be no system. why the hell are we paying for the army? im never gona use it

Originally posted by melbournian
However, the idea of these reforms isn't to achieve equity. We are kidding ourself if any government in Australia would consider this a prime objective. These tertiary reforms are designed to achieve productive efficency. Productive efficency, means that those governments will not have to subsidise universities as much, and as such can redirect tax revenue to other social areas that benefit the wider community and improve the social wage of the entire community

so you're saying equality isnt an objective for the government but the money gained from the uni reforms will be used for it anyway?

thats a contradiction and also a bit naive. housing and community amenities went down 4% in the 03/04 budget while defence went up by 6%. the money is just going pay for the bombs that will be dropped on some iraqi child.

 

[emily]

I think we can see that our society is certainally heading towards the abolishment of the middle class, with each reform we seem to be increasing the gap between rich and poor and making it harder to move between the two. Tertiary education should be for those who want to go and can get the marks.

It works perfectly alright in countries around the world, so I'll be damned if I can understand (and I'm not an eco student, don't enjoy reading all g'vt policies, am just a concerned student here) why it can't work here. Let's take england for example, where the student pays for uni, however only a small amount. The government is still managing it there hey, and Newbie is right - the only way this world can ever hope for peace is if we cut down on the money being drained from the taxpayers straight into building up mass weaponary to fight...wait a sec, who's enemy number one now, i forget? which 'ism' have the us moved ono now, we've had comunism, terroism, fucked if i know.

they seem to be overlooking the need for educated people in our society, more open minded etc (that sentence was badly written and may not have made sense, but i'm tired so sod off).

the latest plans in the pipe line (this is coming from a senator, the one who organised the rally at uts a little while ago that i was suppossed to be speaking at but couldn't get out of a workshop) are for a 30% hecs increase, and for full fee paying places tp be up to 50%, and for people to only be allowed hecs for five years.

so great, so i can't get into combined law because obviously with a uai of 99.6 for 75% of places it will go to like 100 for 50%, yet my parents aren't rich enough to pay full fee for the last two years of my law degree if i do it post-grad. great.

look, it just seems farily fucking obvious that this g'vt prefers private schooling, upper-class etc. not that i'm against private schooling - as they get 70% of the federal education budget therefore are able to pay for far superior facilities, i kinda fall into the 'use it while it's there' mindset (but i go to a state school, and my sis is at private only coz she got a scholarship). argh argh argh, this g'vts whole views on education seem fairly fucked to me, yet you're right - what's the alternative at the moment?!

there, you can take that sweeping statement and shove it up your arse if you think i'm completely wrong, that's just what i think.

 

[freaking_out]

Re: Re: Nelson lets in 12,000 more at uni

Originally posted by Raiks
....The Government isn't all bad.

do u get paid by the governement or somethin'?? coz usually people hate governments.

 

[Generator]

Tertiary education (unlike primary and secondary) isn't needed by all, therefore everyone who makes use of it should be forced to pay (at some stage). It's only fair.


At first I was worried about what the reforms would entail. But it seems that rather than generating further inequality, they will actually cause people to think before entering uni, and in that way only those who are willing and able to succeed will go on and take a degree, with the other people turning to other sources of employment and/or training, which can only benefit everyone in the long run.

 

[Newbie]

Originally posted by Generator
Tertiary education isn't needed by all

tertiary education isnt accessible by all

Originally posted by Generator

only those who are willing and able to succeed will go on and take a degree

only those who are willing and can afford to pay for it will go on and take a degree

 

[freaking_out]

yeah, what we're trying to say is that universities should accept people on merits not on the amount of money they have.

 

[Azn fairies]

anyway i doubt the fucken legistration will be passed with so many party against it (greens, labour, demo. ...so yeah ... jonny can go eat himself.

 

[IronMike]

Hasnt Nelson trade off some conditions, like giving universities extra time to phase out the over enrolment etc....
Actually i think the legislation wont be implemented for the 2004 uni applicants....im pretty sure...

 

[freaking_out]

Originally posted by IronMike
Hasnt Nelson trade off some conditions, like giving universities extra time to phase out the over enrolment etc....
Actually i think the legislation wont be implemented for the 2004 uni applicants....im pretty sure...

yeah thats true, its too late now to affect us. ....but anyway we're annoyed because of the enrolment places cut by the unis.

 

[yeeha89]

fuck the HSC

man, i dont give a shit anymore...... it's so stupid, i used to do good at school at all but now i realised going to uni does not mean everything. There are great courses in TAFE and some of my friends are doing apprenticeship and they are having so much fun as well as getting paid and experience. Uni sucks!

 

[freaking_out]

Re: fuck the HSC

Originally posted by yeeha89
man, i dont give a shit anymore...... it's so stupid, i used to do good at school at all but now i realised going to uni does not mean everything. There are great courses in TAFE and some of my friends are doing apprenticeship and they are having so much fun as well as getting paid and experience. Uni sucks!

yeah, but what about if ur a nerd and u wanna do more math?

 

[Musegirl]

To be quite frank, I believe that ALL university courses should be paid through HECS, so therefore only the best get into university... not some rich kid with a pocket full of cash going into medicine or the like and only working for themselves and not for society.

That's my two cents

 

[emily]

exactly

 

[Generator]

A five point difference isn't that big... It isn't exactly fair, but then again, what is?

The point from this is that even though the 'rich' may have slightly easier access, they still have to be 'bright' enough in order to get there in the first place.

 

[xanthanotus]

why doesnt the government remove the dole and then put that money into the education system and health system...its not like half of those lazy fuckers couldnt get off their arse and get a job?