Uni's Dumb Down for Foreign Cash (2 Viewers)

[iamsickofyear12]

At UOW the money that comes from international students is huge so I understand why they allow international students who can hardly speak english.

I don't really like it though, if you can't speak english properly you shouldn't be at an Australian university. I wouldn't go to China to go to university when I know I can't speak the language and I don't see how the other way around is any different.

 

[Korn]

At UOW the money that comes from international students is huge so I understand why they allow international students who can hardly speak english.

I don't really like it though, if you can't speak english properly you shouldn't be at an Australian university. I wouldn't go to China to go to university when I know I can't speak the language and I don't see how the other way around is any different.

Because its PC

 

[MoonlightSonata]

But you cannot deny what these reports will be used for and how they will be interpreted by people...essentially along the lines of 'send them back where they came from'. Not to mention feeding into the whole idea of white supremacy and simplistic conclusions about internationals being stupid because of, well, their race/ language/culture.

That's a bit of an exaggeration, especially the white supremecy part. I suppose Miranda Devine or Pauline Hanson might hint at that, but short of extremists people aren't generally going to react that way. Nonetheless whatever people may use the reports for, these are facts here that need to be dealt with, not brushed aside because it involves an element of race.

The majority of the law faculty at UNSW is 'asian background' but have english skills that surpass much of the population. Most people, even university people, sometimes cannot distinguish between the two.

The real answer would be to fail the internationals that cannot meet the requirements and not dumb down the course. Provide english help. Collect the fees for the repeats.

Yeah I agree

now back to property assignment

 

[Korn]

But you cannot deny what these reports will be used for and how they will be interpreted by people...essentially along the lines of 'send them back where they came from'. Not to mention feeding into the whole idea of white supremacy and simplistic conclusions about internationals being stupid because of, well, their race/ language/culture.

The majority of the law faculty at UNSW is 'asian background' but have english skills that surpass much of the population. Most people, even university people, sometimes cannot distinguish between the two.

The real answer would be to fail the internationals that cannot meet the requirements and not dumb down the course. Provide english help. Collect the fees for the repeats.

Isnt the traditional racial sterotype of asians, ppl that are super intelligent nerds?
So wouldnt this go to disprove the sterotype?
I havent seen any dumbing down in any of my units at uni

 

[ogmzergrush]

IMO I think you will find that most 'Aussies' (just look at this thread) are quite resentful to international students

speaking of stereotyping, wtf?

 

[ohne]

What is wrong with attracting foreign students? In my opinion the problem with the University system at the moment is that there is too much governmen intervention.

It might shock the middle clases, but I would put things like higher education on a commercial footing. Universities should charge what they like in what is now a world market. If they continue to struggle under the yoke of penny-pinching politicians, they’ve had it. I would let them charge full fees but require them to set up endowment funds so the poorest students had equal access: choose on merit, help on need.

 

[AntiHyper]

Hehe 'tis so true, now my school is VERY multi-cultural and come from different background.
Here are some examples:
Chinese
...
Chinese
...
Still chinese
...
Russian
Indonesian
English ("British")

End of list
I fall under indonesian

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Hehe 'tis so true, now my school is VERY multi-cultural and come from different background.
Here are some examples:
Chinese
...
Chinese
...
Still chinese
...
Russian
Indonesian
English ("British")

End of list
I fall under indonesian

What???????

 

[Korn]

What???????

If u mean the English "British" that is probably cause of Great Britian being more then England.
If u meant the whole post its called sarcasm "VERY"

 

[MoonlightSonata]

The whole thing, it just seems a bit of a non sequitur

 

[leetom]

The large numbers of Asian internationals is ultimately the doing of the Howard crew though, so now it's our turn to scare the population with a possible Asian invasion. We're not low enough to do so, though.

Personally, I'm not annoyed by the race of the internationals or their relectance to intergrate or practise their english skills, but by their social background. If they are here paying full fees, no doubt they are from extemely wealthy families back home. I dislike the way they take up the places of probably more deserving local students, who are denied places in favour of the often less able internationals, purely because local students can't pay upfront fees just to keep the university alive.

It's sad that our universities must now look to the pockets of wealthy foreign familes out of financial need rather than looking to recruit locals. Brendon Nelson accuses the universities of being poor managers rather than accept the truth- that this is a terrible result of Liberal Party policy.

 

[Korn]

The large numbers of Asian internationals is ultimately the doing of the Howard crew though, so now it's our turn to scare the population with a possible Asian invasion. We're not low enough to do so, though.

Personally, I'm not annoyed by the race of the internationals or their relectance to intergrate or practise their english skills, but by their social background. If they are here paying full fees, no doubt they are from extemely wealthy families back home. I dislike the way they take up the places of probably more deserving local students, who are denied places in favour of the often less able internationals, purely because local students can't pay upfront fees just to keep the university alive.

It's sad that our universities must now look to the pockets of wealthy foreign familes out of financial need rather than looking to recruit locals. Brendon Nelson accuses the universities of being poor managers rather than accept the truth- that this is a terrible result of Liberal Party policy.

Didnt u post this b4?

 

[Scanorama]

What is wrong with attracting foreign students? In my opinion the problem with the University system at the moment is that there is too much governmen intervention.

It might shock the middle clases, but I would put things like higher education on a commercial footing. Universities should charge what they like in what is now a world market. If they continue to struggle under the yoke of penny-pinching politicians, they’ve had it. I would let them charge full fees but require them to set up endowment funds so the poorest students had equal access: choose on merit, help on need.

There is nothing wrong with foreign students attending our unis, but the problem is that their standard can vary a lot, and thats where the whole issue is about. Education should never be treat as commerical matter because it is not. Education is the most important thing, along with health of the country. Without either one of them, the country will not be competitable to other countries.

The Howard government always say there aren't enough experts in Australia and we need to import more and more professionals from other countries, yet more and more Year 12 miss out their uni slot because there isn't enough fundings for local and uni relies on foreign students who may not even have the standard of Year 12. Yet because they come from a wealthy family, they can get into our uni, as a result, some of local Year 12 studnets miss out.

The uni funding for local students should never decrease at the first place. Education is one of the most important funding/investments out of all. Poor eudcated people ==> lower standard of the country. Spending money on education is far better for the country than sending troops to another country fighting for someone else, or provide fundings for private schools. The HECS should reduce by at least a half, if not free.

Brandon Nelson is full of shit, everyone knows the funding of universities dropped a lot since the Howard government came in. If his accusation of poor managements of universities, then why is it more than one uni reports the same problems? They can't be all have poor managements? That just shows education was never the Liberal government's priority.

International students are great people for our uni, don't get me wrong. But it is a problem when it effects local studnet to get into unis and having local students pay the HECS which increases every year. International students can help us to explore and understand different cultures, at least we won't shock ourselves when we enter employments, as long as their standard is same as local students.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

There is nothing wrong with foreign students attending our unis, but the problem is that their standard can vary a lot, and thats where the whole issue is about. Education should never be treat as commerical matter because it is not. Education is the most important thing, along with health of the country. Without either one of them, the country will not be competitable to other countries.

The Howard government always say there aren't enough experts in Australia and we need to import more and more professionals from other countries, yet more and more Year 12 miss out their uni slot because there isn't enough fundings for local and uni relies on foreign students who may not even have the standard of Year 12. Yet because they come from a wealthy family, they can get into our uni, as a result, some of local Year 12 studnets miss out.

The uni funding for local students should never decrease at the first place. Education is one of the most important funding/investments out of all. Poor eudcated people ==> lower standard of the country. Spending money on education is far better for the country than sending troops to another country fighting for someone else, or provide fundings for private schools. The HECS should reduce by at least a half, if not free.

Brandon Nelson is full of shit, everyone knows the funding of universities dropped a lot since the Howard government came in. If his accusation of poor managements of universities, then why is it more than one uni reports the same problems? They can't be all have poor managements? That just shows education was never the Liberal government's priority.

International students are great people for our uni, don't get me wrong. But it is a problem when it effects local studnet to get into unis and having local students pay the HECS which increases every year. International students can help us to explore and understand different cultures, at least we won't shock ourselves when we enter employments, as long as their standard is same as local students.

The uni's do have poor management, and cuts have to be made.
At the same time, I think university should be free and a universal right for every australian who achieves the marks to get into their desired course.

 

[Scanorama]

The uni's do have poor management, and cuts have to be made.
At the same time, I think university should be free and a universal right for every australian who achieves the marks to get into their desired course.

Maybe some of the management is not good, but Im sure it doesnt as bad as what Brandon Nelson said 'poor'.
I do agree with you that it should be free for everyone who got the mark to get in.

And as far as the postgraduae overseas tutor goes, as long as I can understand his/her english, regardless if (s)he is fluent or not, and (s)he can make me understand the whole thing, then the tutor is good.

This tutor in one of my subject is a Caucasian with Australian accent, but he is shit, the worst tutor i have out of all subjects im doing.

 

[IamaFloorMat]

International students + Group work equals disaster
my experience wiht a couple of asian students

i wish they could form teams better!

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Full fee isn't about giving advantage to richer students per se...
It's more about helping to pay for other people's degree's.
I wouldn't be so angry at them.

I don't believe the HSC is a good measure of how you're going to go in university either, it is entirely different (at least to my experience at university). The problem with the HSC imo is that it SHOULD only be a programme to prepare students for university study (like the IB) however, the government considers it as also extra-education for those wishing to enter the work force...

 

[leetom]

International students are great people for our uni, don't get me wrong. But it is a problem when it effects local studnet to get into unis and having local students pay the HECS which increases every year. International students can help us to explore and understand different cultures, at least we won't shock ourselves when we enter employments, as long as their standard is same as local students.

Exactly. International students provide no end of benefits for everybody at university, but when we are offering places to foreign students in order to keep the university alive rather than out of the cultural benefit, there is something terribly wrong.

The uni's do have poor management, and cuts have to be made.
At the same time, I think university should be free and a universal right for every australian who achieves the marks to get into their desired course.

Why do cuts have to be made? I realise you are a firm believer in economic rationality, but there are essentials in every society, and good higher education is one of them. Can you provide an example of poor management?

Would you agree then NTB, that the Howard Government's approach to universities and their funding is intolerable? In general terms, our universities are going to the shit, at least compared to a decade ago. I do not understand why the Government aspires to making our universities progressively inaccessible.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Exactly. International students provide no end of benefits for everybody at university, but when we are offering places to foreign students in order to keep the university alive rather than out of the cultural benefit, there is something terribly wrong.



Why do cuts have to be made? I realise you are a firm believer in economic rationality, but there are essentials in every society, and good higher education is one of them. Can you provide an example of poor management?

Would you agree then NTB, that the Howard Government's approach to universities and their funding intolerable? In general terms, our universities are going to the shit, at least compared to a decade ago. I do not understand why the Government aspires to making our universities progressively inaccessible.

I think that the Howard Government is doing a good job with universities under the current atmosphere and expectations.
I would however prefer a radical government that would make university free for all students, and I just accept the fact that this probably won't be done under a Liberal or Labor government any time soon. Is this Howards fault? Very likely.

 

[transcendent]

You vote for any political party, you live with the consequences of having that party in power.