UNSW or USYD for Medicine? (2 Viewers)

[Zephyrio]

Okay guys, I have been thinking long and clear about this. :\

I want to study arts/medicine but I don't know which uni I would put up in first place on my UAC application forms. I know some people will be on here and say that it is much too early to think about UAC, and your concern is welcome but I think I should have a clear aim.

Going to UNSW (I'm lumping advantages and disadvantages together since I'm lazy and it's 1:25AM)
- Medicine and arts studied concurrently apart from the first year.
- The UAI needed is less than USYD, which requires 99.95.
- More people accepted into this course than at USYD.
- The application process takes into account UMAT results. This may hinder or improve my chances; I don't know.
- Travel seems like a real pain. Train to central, bus to uni.

Going to USYD
- You need to maintain 80+(average or WAM? But nontheless, quite a big number in uni terms) in arts to proceed onto medicine.
- You have to study arts in the first three years before moving onto medicine, which takes four years. Which I don't like the idea of since I just want to plunge into med straight away.
- It is bloody great in terms of travel; I wouldn't need to take buses to uni!
- I believe that by not doing arts and medicine concurrently, I would have more opportunities to explore my arts degree.
- You need 99.95 UAI, and the intake for 2008 (being twenty in all for all combined medicine courses at USYD) is, as I imagine, at the very most, five or six.
- Disregard for the UMAT exam.
- I'm going to be REALLY superficial here and say that being in the quad of USYD makes me feel like going into Hogwarts. lol
- $10 000 per annum scholarship, which sounds quite nice.

---

Does anybody know whether I can pursue another degree after I finish arts at USYD (hypothetically speaking of course), or am I to focus on finishing Medicine? Also, I will be applying for UWS also, which sounds like a really cool uni to go to. If anyone could shed light on this, that would be much appreciated.

Hopefully ssglain helps me out a tad. XD (or lots).

 

[+Po1ntDeXt3r+]

the 10K is not standard .. its only offered to lik 2-3 of the ppl applying.. otherwise it should be HECS

also in the scheme of things.. it depends... like why do u want an arts degree?
i mean if its for scholarly pursuits... wouldnt reading in ure spare time be enough? or extra projects.. but yeah i get why u do it.. oh well.

here is a thought

UWS = 5 yrs
Usyd = 7 yrs

basically in 7 yrs after UWS ulll earn ure 100K and ull be a resident... or ull have just graduated from Usyd?

although this is on the assumption that ull even make an MBBS course

 

[Zephyrio]

I want to pursue an arts degree because I love the humanities, and I would like to learn history or English (or both). Also, for scholarly purposes (I want to be a fiction writer), as EE1/EE2 I love to death.

Thank you, point dexter.

But then, I'm just asking which I should put first on my UAC.

 

[partelephant]

Personally I would NEVER go to USyd for Med.

1. I knew I never stood a chance of 99.95 (and I didn't get it of course)

2. Even if I DID get 99.95+ then I wouldn't want to go there because of the pressure of maintaining a D average (although I've heard murmurings that it's only C). Even if it was easy to do I wouldn't want to have any extra pressure on me to achieve a certain score (not that I'm planning to cruise through my Med degree, assuming I get in). The lack of a guarantee that you'll get into the Med course once you've finished your first degree is enough to deter me from Usyd - cos then what do you have? Just another random Degree? (no offence intended to Arts or any other degree)

3. How whacked up is that article about USyd using a lottery to pick Grad med students - way to instil confidence in the public...

Edit: I also have to agree with vulgarfraction - if you want to become a fiction writer, why the med degree then? Med isn't (I don't think) the type of career where you can have a "side job" like writing. Is it because you want a degree to "fall back" on if your writing career "fails"?
BTW conveying tone via the Internet isn't my forte so don't misconstrue this for me criticising you, etc

 

[Survivor39]

- The application process takes into account UMAT results. This may hinder or improve my chances; I don't know.
- Travel seems like a real pain. Train to central, bus to uni.
or lots).

Well yes, but considering most people would have to do the UMAT anyway.. so it's not a big deal.

The 15 min bus trip is nothing. You will get over it considering the train trip is likely to be 3-4 times longer.

- $10 000 per annum scholarship, which sounds quite nice.

UNSW also gives you a similar scholarship if you acheived 99.95 or 100 UAI.

 

[Zephyrio]

Thank you guys for your input.

I have to clarify something: Med is the only thing for me, and when I saw that you could do both arts and med at both UNSW and USYD, I literally jumped. I was so happy, because I have looked long and hard, and I know that medicine is really the only thing I wish to do. I really, really, really, really, really, want to do it. My family doesn't really want me to do it apart from my dad, and they're scared that I'll be some social recluse studying until I'm 50 without a wife and whatever else Asians like to fear. /stereotypes

With that said, I can't lie to myself - I do have a real passion for the arts, and whether I'm reading Edward Said or Jean Francois Lyotard, I find that literary theory really amazes me in its breadth and imagination. (God I'm talking like a freak.) But yes, I am really into English.

Also, once I graduate I think that I'll have some time to write. I don't think medicine will consume all my life - I know, it's a huge commitment and I am ready to accept that - but there should be times where I can put up my feet and do other things. I have heard of many doctors who have had time to write, with the most apt example being Khaled Hosseini, who is absolutely amazing and I love his books to death. Kite Runner and A Thousand Splendid Suns.

So that was just to answer a few qualms - and partelephant, I didn't miscontrue what you said as criticism, but only mere curiosity - and thank you for that. As the time comes, I will look more closely into medicine and whatever it comes with, but I'm ready to accept the long years in uni, the hard yards during those years and also the sacrifices that I will have to make.

And also, I think that even if I didn't want to be a writer and just had a general interest in arts, I would have still fgo for it. Because sometimes you just have to let your passion consume you (sometimes) . I just like it, arts... My brother has been trying to persuade me to pursue commerce/law, but I know that I couldn't possibly survive in that - simply because law, to me, is unappealing and commerce is just as awful. So what I'm really trying to say here is that if I've got a side-interest in arts, then why shouldn't I pursue it? I mean nothing has to precipitate from it aside from me enjoying what it has to offer. I think these questions arise from arts/medicine seemingly incongruous while, for example, medical science/medicine looking a lot more compatible.

Thank you so much vulgarfraction and partelephant. I am leaning towards UNSW, because I don't want to have to wait three years until I do medicine. This is providing that I get the required UAI. And until mid-December, we'll just have to wait.

 

[Season]

Zephyrio... have you ever watched Grey's anatomy before? One of the very few things they are actually accurate about in the movie is the fact that they are working 24/7. Now yes it is their internship, the reality is you're not going to be able to take it easy until after you finish specialising. Which will be when you are probably 30 minimum. By that time you'll be so used to it you'll probably be working insane hours anyways.

Now I'm not questioning your dedication or anything, but I think if you are really into arts then you may wish to consider doing grad medicine instead of undergraduate.

By the way from what you've said I think you should go to Sydney so you can fully immerse yourself in the arts degree. My impression of the MBBS/Arts degree at UNSW is that its a side thing, a place to relax in and use the other half of the brain, rather then immersing, at UNSW medicine would be your priority from day dot.

I loved english and history so I can sympathise with you, but I got good marks because my work was at times my heart and soul poured onto the paper, and it took time to get it right. I feel that you might have to compromise that if you went to UNSW.

You say you have a "side interest" in arts, but me thinks its a bit more then that. A side interest would mean that you occasionally pick up a book and enjoy it. You sound like someone who would pick that book up, find a quote and marvel over its genius, the fact that you want to be able to create words is just further evidence of it.

You've said why you want to do arts, why don't you say why you want to do medicine. We know that you do, but why, what is it about medicine that makes you want to do it?

 

[Zephyrio]

Yeah, I suppose it is a little more than just a "side" interest, and I haven't really considered graduate medicine before. But I will definitely look into that now. And that's one of the drawbacks of UNSW combined arts/medicine - the fact that it seems as if I won't be able to fully immerse myself and end up doing only a half-arsed job of the degree.

And why do I want to do medicine?
I've always had an interest in science, though I've never thought about doing that alone as terribly appealing. With medicine, it's like science but it's with human interaction - and I am a social being, I like hanging out with people, so that part of it is really cool. Also, this will sound cliched and whatever, but I'll say it anyway. I like like helping people, and nothing thrills me more than if I've helped a friend and they've improved their marks, or if I've helped them with a personal issue. *Sigh* I didn't mean to sound as if I was rehearsing for a pageant.

Also, I think that it's one of those jobs which have a really big impact on society in general. I think that teaching is another one, and B Ed will surely appear on my UAC form. I'm not trying to sould all altruistic and as if selfishness does not permeate through my bones sometimes - but I do believe that if I have the power to contribute to society, I should take it with open arms. Medicine is one way.

Also, because medicine is everchanging, I will relish marvelling over technological and medicinal discoveries; studying constantly will not be an issue for me. Medicine is such an intellectual profession - you problem solve, and as a result of your guidance, you can help people achieve a better quality of life.

This is in direct contrast to something such as investment banking, where your success lies in the revenue you generate, on some statistics. With medicine, if there is improvement, I will see it, using my very own eyes. I have had some bad experiences with doctors before, like a few GPs calling me "fat" when I was just a very young teenager. I didn't realise how demoralising this was for me as a child (I 've lost a lot of weight since through tennis and other sports ), and even now I imagine what I would have said had I been in their positions. And I certainly won't be calling anyone "fat", much less a young, impressionable teenager.

I feel like the challenge of being a doctor will sustain me.

EDIT: And yes, I have marvelled many a time about the genuis of some authors. =) Often, I go to bed after having stayed up to around 5am or so (LOL) and just think about how intricately a writer must have thought to come up as poetic or clever. One example is my wide-eyed amazement at TOM MARVOLO RIDDLE ==> VOLDEMORT. Golly, so many linguistic allusions in that name alone. Another is the delicious irony of novels such as Kite Runner - the subversion and inversion of characterisation being so so good.

I also agree with you: most of my best work comes from when I rip my heart and paste it onto paper.

 

[partelephant]

Disclaimer: This post, by its end, will have descended into super-cliché so don't read the last 2 paragraphs if you don't want to hear it

I think from what seems to have been said in posts following my original post that you definitely seem to have a sort of intrinsic desire to pursue something in the arts. In light of this, I think that you should really consider a graduate entry Med course. As Season has mentioned, the UNSW BA part of the degree really only seems like a "year off" in the middle of your course where you can just "expand your horizons" and become a "more well-rounded person" rather than it being something which you can seriously devote yourself to. Keep in mind that there ARE other Unis which offer Graduate Entry programs and that just because you may complete your BA at USyd, it doesn't restrict you to do your Med degree there.

In my personal situation I'd never go the Graduate entry route unless I had to because there's nothing else which really intrigues me or which I have a great passion for e.g. I mean I guess I can understand all of that talk of admiring literature but it completely goes over my head because I've never had a passion for English (which is unfortunate because apparently the only high school subject that acts as an indicator for University success - and apparently Medicine in particular - is English). That's why I say if you have something like that then go for it.

Also, don't be ashamed of a clichéd response to the question of "Why do you want to do medicine?" Before my med interviews started last year (I had about 6 of them around the country) I tried to really sit down and think about how to answer that question - not to plan out a response that I would regurgitate verbatim, but I tried to find some kind of unique reason that would make my answer stand out from amongst the crowd of everyone saying "I want to help people". Perhaps I knew this all along (now entering "Soppy-zone") but I figured that when it boils down to it, there's a reason why everyone says it - because you have to have that kind of desire to do med (IMO). It's all well and good to come up with some amazing story of how you had meningitis when you were a little kid in a rural community and doctors saved your life and you have since had a lifelong admiration for them but if you don't actually have that basic clichéd desire then what DO you have?

I consider myself to be a pretty smooth talker in interviews and I, like many others, could probably "act" my way through an interview and into med school (and maybe have). But if you ask me off-the-cuff why I want to do med, I couldn't tell you - it's not something I can verbalise for all of my shiny skills in oration.

 

[Season]

Yeah I thought so... lol

One of my best pieces of work was when I interviewed a woman who was in the Cambodian concentration camps from 14-18 (my age when I wrote it), it made me cry, and I spent hours on it. It was my baby. I made two teachers cry (SCORE!) and got full marks, but that said, the amount of work I put into it was just insane.

Looking over what you've said, I think you should definitely do your arts degree first, and then medicine, not only will it give you time to explore your interest, but it will help you explore other options as well. While commerce/law isn't the most "I want to help people" degree, there are many more aimed in that direction as well, which I think you might enjoy exploring.

By the way, ANU also has a provisional entry scheme, you need a UAI above 98, a credit average and you need to pass the GAMSAT, not ace it, just pass it. Its a great university and I can personally vouch for its arts programs.

 

[partelephant]

I wasn't having a snap at u partelephant. I just felt like contributing

Haha no worries, it's nice to know someone else is actually looking in on the conversation - I thought this thread had descended in to the "TL;DR" region.

Of course there are so many reasons you could think of for wanting to do med - all of them valid - but there has to be a reason why that one explanation is so over-used, and I can only explain it by the fact that its the one thing you really NEED to have. All of the other ones may be nice "side dishes" or "decorations" as reasons but IMO you need to have that as the nuts and bolts of your desire.

 

[Steth0scope]

I second that.

 

[Zephyrio]

In light of what everyone has said about my fierce interest in the Arts, I think that medicine will have to take precedence. I don't like the idea of doing graduate medicine because having geared up towards a medical degree all my life, there won't be anything much better than starting it next year. Even if doing arts/med at UNSW will come at the expense of some "exploration" time within an Arts degree, I do need to retain focus and that is, a job within medicine.

Say, does anybody know how many Arts electives you can choose if you were accepted into arts/Medicine at UNSW? If it's two or more, that would be fantastic - don't you take a year off to pursue this degree and then go back to med?

I am also considering ANU, since it's got such a great humanities reputation, but at this moment I think it is a little too far for me. I also think that it is not necessarily imperative for me to do Arts in order to pursue a career in writing later down the track; from what I have gathered, there is quite a bit of emphasis on "academic" literature and a snobbish attitude towards "mainstream" literature we receive in bookshops today? Can someone shed any light/elaborate on this issue? Jesus, my mouth is watering as I look to that list offered within Arts... ideally, I would like to pursue English, another language and history. Two of these three would be fine. Interestingly, because my Polish friend wouldn't say "Peter Skrzynecki" for me in Polish, I challenged her and said that I would learn Polish in uni just to prove her wrong. Lol.

@ Season
It's funny that you've brought up the Khmer Rouge, because I myself have Cambodian blood streaming through my body! I'm even wearing an Angkor Wat t-shirt right now. And yes I agree that the whole Pol Pot regime was sad and terrible; my parents (and most of my extended family) were lucky.

*Snaps back to reality*
All this hypothetical talk would be useless if I don'tt even make it into med (save for the information about graduate level entry). Does anybody think I have a realistic chance of making it into either or both of these universities in question? I go to a reasonable selective school, ranked inside the top fifty and have come first in at least eight of my units listed below for my first term assessments (have still yet to receive EE1), and just half a mark shy of topping chemistry as well. If all goes well, I should be looking at a UAI around 98, 99, but as always there is some doubt about what the future may hold for me. All I can hope for is to continue this balanced life (studying for four hours, net/fun for four hours each night - does that sound reasonable? Oh not for the summer holidays though, I am having a blast these holidays!) and see if I can do well in the HSC. Hmmm, I'm also captain and do quite a bit in school outside of the classroom, so I really have my fingers crossed I can make it into med at either UWS, USYD or UNSW. (Preferably UNSW at this stage, though as you guys have noticed, my decisions are quite fleeting). Shrug. UMAT is also very worrying, more so than the HSC itself perhaps and the interviews. Interviews shouldn't be too much of a problem.

 

[KFunk]

As you can probably tell from my signature, I'm in strong support of your desire to study arts along with medicine. As far as the UNSW/USyd debate goes, I think UNSW is a much more realistic option - you can work as hard as possible and still not make the marks needed for entry into the USyd provisional program. However, I do think the BA --> grad med pathway at USyd is worth considering as a fall back position (or as an alternative if you want a really broad arts load).

It is possible to immerse yourself in arts at UNSW, however the best way to do this, I think, is to do an honours year in arts (i.e. what I am doing with philosophy . The way I am structuring things I will have a straight arts year in 2009 and an arts honours year in 2010 (2006-08 will have been straight med with three phil courses scattered about the place). The honours year, for me, will include some coursework (three courses I believe, with a 6,000 word essay for each), a ~20,000 word thesis and some form of thesis workshop throughout the year. I really look forward to my honours year because it will allow me to fully engage with an area of my choosing. English honours is much the same - three seminar courses, a thesis workshop + a thesis (/some creative writing? I'm not sure about that).

The main issue with doing Arts(hons) at UNSW is that you loose out in breadth. This is because you only get 66cp to play around with in the BA, 54cp of which have to go towards the subject in which you want to do honours, allowing you to do only two courses in other areas. Nonetheless, if you want a full-on english or history experience then I suspect Arts/Med at UNSW with honours in arts should be able to offer that.

 

[Zephyrio]

*Squeals*

Awesome. Does that mean I could choose English and then two minor subjects, Kfunk? Philosophy sounds interesting, and yes USYD does require those high marks to get into med at the end of your first course. Which puts me off somewhat...

 

[Wooz]

*Squeals*

Awesome. Does that mean I could choose English and then two minor subjects, Kfunk? Philosophy sounds interesting, and yes USYD does require those high marks to get into med at the end of your first course. Which puts me off somewhat...

It's possible to double major at UNSW or Usyd but their usually from two totally different areas from the cat a and b lists at Usyd. At UNSW their aren't really pescribed or recognised minors only majors i think.

A GPA of 5.5 in an arts degree is certainly achievable and realistic. The only thing you have to worry about is all that science in GAMSAT.

Personally i would kill to get into the B Arts/MBBS program at UNSW but since i bombed umat looks like in goin post-grad at sydney.
http://www.handbook.unsw.edu.au/undergraduate/programs/2008/3840.html

History of Philosphy and Science>Philosophy HPS just seems more relevant and thought provoking to me.

 

[KFunk]

*Squeals*

Awesome. Does that mean I could choose English and then two minor subjects, Kfunk?

Yup, assuming honours your load would consist of:

BA:
- 9 english courses (54cp)
- 2 history/politics courses (12cp)

Honours year:
- Thesis workshop + thesis
- 3 upper level seminar courses

 

[+Po1ntDeXt3r+]

Michael Crichton
Arthur Conan Doyle

I mean i think that it is a fair point to be a writer but then just make sure u remember that Medicine can be hard around exam times.. and that u distribute the workload around..dun want to be a jack of all trades and master of none

no matter where u go.. ull be fine.. just make sure u have the time and the drive

 

[ausmacka]

Why do you have to limit yourself to UNSW or USyd...? Why can't you go and do a BA, or any other degree for that matter, at any old 'ol university and then apply to a graduate program, for which there are new ones starting all the time? I understand the conundrum you face, I am sort of at a point where I have all these extra things I like studying, whether it be science or humanities, or both.

However, you have to ask your self: how badly do I want to do medicine? For me, I would go to UNSW without a blinking an eyelid, but the fact remains, I have no change in hell in getting 98.10 (which was the average UAI required to get an interview for 2007 entry). So for me, my next option is going off to USyd and studying a degree (at the moment I think its going to Bachelor of Medical Science, but that changes frequently). My point is, if you really want to do medicine, go to UNSW and do a BA/MBBS, that way you can concentrate on medicine (which I assume you want to do) and get a BA "on the side", so to speak.

After having spent the last couple of days actually in a hospital, experiencing what its like first hand, I have reaffirmed my commitment to medicine, although I am still looking to a graduate program, purely because I don't have the marks. So, if you want to make sure, do some kind of work experience with a doc... its great fun, trust me.

Hope this makes sense.

Ow and by the way, I don't know where $100,000 came from, but the salary for an intern is a couple of dollars (literally) under $50,000, then on top of that is all the overtime, etc. So I just though I would clear that up.

 

[Survivor39]

ausmacka, don't forget there the route of MedSc-Med entry at UNSW. The top 15 gets selected at the end of second year of MedSc and can gain entry into 4th year medicine after completing MedSc (Hons). A way to avoid the GAMSAT.