We need a much greater emphasis on science in schools? (1 Viewer)

flashyGoldFish

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A post in the mX today got me thinking that our current schooling system is failing people in regards to science. The post went something like
'A calculator will never turn into an Ipad. You know that yet you believe in evolution'

Whilst science is compulsory till year 10, is that enough or are we doing a dis-service to our children but not giving them a proper science education.
 

Drongoski

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With so many subjects to choose from in the NSW HSC, it is only human to choose the path of least resistance, to go for the "easier" subjects.




PS

I note with alarm the prevalence of sex change on BoS; people I knew to be male have suddenly become female and vice versa.
 
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Lolsmith

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A post in the mX today got me thinking that our current schooling system is failing people in regards to science. The post went something like
'A calculator will never turn into an Ipad. You know that yet you believe in evolution'

Whilst science is compulsory till year 10, is that enough or are we doing a dis-service to our children but not giving them a proper science education.
"dis-service" yep that 13 years of English did well for you as well congrats mate

The system is fine, there will always be dumb people who don't listen, don't learn and go further into life saying uneducated things. This is not anything new, nor will it ever be anything out of the ordinary. This absolutely does not mean that the entire school system is failing because some people aren't as smart as you think you are.
 

flashyGoldFish

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Yeah bad english from me.

My point is more the average person has no understanding of basic scientific ideas such as evolution and has no idea of proper scientific practise and peer review despite the fact that we live in a world so dependant on science and technology.
 

someth1ng

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I completely agree that there is a lack of scientific understanding in the general population. That's why we need to have science communicators (what I aspire to me).

There are several problems with the current Year 12 system (referring to HSC, not IB) and I want to run through each of the problems briefly.

1. The only compulsory subject is English. The problem is that English teaches you some skills but the way it is set up, it doesn't train you to think critically (or anything very useful, for that matter) - what I want to see is a change in the Area of Study to be a completely different and random theme every year such that students cannot simply rote learn an essay with a belonging theme and adapt it in the exam. It would make it almost impossible to really make a perfect essay on the spot but it would allow those who can think critically under pressure to excel.
2. Again, with English being the only compulsory unit, it produces students that are not rounded - students that don't do mathematics, don't do science or don't do arts subjects. It allows students to remain in their comfort zone which is a deadly recipe for training yourself out of your own curiosity and critical thinking - you choose to educate yourself out of your own creativity.
3. There is no rigorous curriculum from Year 7-10 and the difficulty is practically unchanging for four years - this makes students feel too comfortable with school work and the level is understanding, I would argue, is not much higher than from where they started.
4. The curriculum does not address scientific misconceptions - for example, the idea that evolution is a random process is ludicrous. Evolution is a result of positive characteristics having a higher chance of survival and hence, higher chance of reproducing and staying in the gene pool - there is a random element but ultimately, it comes down to the survival of the fittest. Same goes for global warming - saying that global warming is not occurring is empirically wrong - enough said. Or misunderstanding a theory as 'just a guess'. If you want to see scientific misconceptions, you just need to look for protests by climate sceptics - I heard someone say "CO2 is not a pollutant, we need it to breathe".
5. The teaching of 'why this is important' is fundamental to student learning - you often hear little rats say 'why should I learn this? I'll never use it'. And when I say this, I'm not talking about 'this is used in engineering' and that's all. What I expect is students to be able to say that relativity had to be considered when firing up satellites into space because GPS systems seem immediately inaccurate due to the effect of time dilation on the systems - that's why this is important to know but I want students to be able to do this for everything they learn because everything has a use.
6. The final thing I want to see is more practical lessons in the science class room - that's what science is and that's what we need. Have a practical lesson every week/fortnight. It will show students the application of what they have learnt in the real world.
7. Religions should go through the same level of scrutiny as science (more of a problem with society in general) because they make claims that are within the bounds of scientific understanding. For example, if religions say the universe was created by 'God', their evidence should undergo the same level of scrutiny as the Big Bang theory. I would argue that it is dangerous to allow certain groups (religious groups) to be excluded from criticism - it is fine to have your beliefs but if you want to make them public, you sure as hell should expect them to be critiqued and undergo some sort of scrutiny.
 
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flashyGoldFish

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Summed up better than I could have said. Good to know others get me.
 

isildurrrr1

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"dis-service" yep that 13 years of English did well for you as well congrats mate

The system is fine, there will always be dumb people who don't listen, don't learn and go further into life saying uneducated things. This is not anything new, nor will it ever be anything out of the ordinary. This absolutely does not mean that the entire school system is failing because some people aren't as smart as you think you are.
yet somehow finland is able to push for higher science and math scores. there's a fault within the system that can be fixed.
 

lee337

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"dis-service" yep that 13 years of English did well for you as well congrats mate

The system is fine, there will always be dumb people who don't listen, don't learn and go further into life saying uneducated things. This is not anything new, nor will it ever be anything out of the ordinary. This absolutely does not mean that the entire school system is failing because some people aren't as smart as you think you are.
Sorry, but some local councils are discontinuing the fluoridation of their water supplies. These people should at least have been slightly more scientifically informed.
 

scuba_steve2121

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A post in the mX today got me thinking that our current schooling system is failing people in regards to science. The post went something like
'A calculator will never turn into an Ipad. You know that yet you believe in evolution'

Whilst science is compulsory till year 10, is that enough or are we doing a dis-service to our children but not giving them a proper science education.
The question you should be asking is what exactly constitutes a ‘Proper science education’

This question is of course unanswerable within the context of formal schooling, as the total time that is available to you over the 13 years that they are in school is not enough.

Thus when it comes down to designing the science curriculum it always ends up being a bloodbath between several factions, all of which are trying to answer the same questions from their own conflicting view points.

What do we teach? How do we teach it? Where is the evidence that is the best way? How do we differentiate the curriculum so that all have access to it? The list goes on and on.

I could speak more on the topic but I think you’re probably getting the gist of what I’m saying.
 

someth1ng

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Don't even try telling me that there's not enough time. There's more than enough time for proper science education.

It appears like there's time because so much of it is wasted on destruction of free thinking, creativity and actual literacy.
 

lee337

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The question you should be asking is what exactly constitutes a ‘Proper science education’

This question is of course unanswerable within the context of formal schooling, as the total time that is available to you over the 13 years that they are in school is not enough.

Thus when it comes down to designing the science curriculum it always ends up being a bloodbath between several factions, all of which are trying to answer the same questions from their own conflicting view points.

What do we teach? How do we teach it? Where is the evidence that is the best way? How do we differentiate the curriculum so that all have access to it? The list goes on and on.

I could speak more on the topic but I think you’re probably getting the gist of what I’m saying.
13 years - not enough, what???
Simple, teach at least the basic scientific concepts (analytical techniques), and why it's used. Make exams more about understanding, not bloody rote learning and essay writing.
 

someth1ng

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"dis-service" yep that 13 years of English did well for you as well congrats mate

The system is fine, there will always be dumb people who don't listen, don't learn and go further into life saying uneducated things. This is not anything new, nor will it ever be anything out of the ordinary. This absolutely does not mean that the entire school system is failing because some people aren't as smart as you think you are.
The problem isn't the fact that there's dumb people, the problem is the fact that there's dumb people with power.

That's when the issues start - look at Tony Abbott, claiming that climate change "is crap" and stating that the carbon tax will cost Australians $5000 by 2050. The evidence for climate change is as almost as good as the evidence for evolution. And $5000 by 2050? I will have save a million dollars by 9413 - thanks.

13 years - not enough, what???
Simple, teach at least the basic scientific concepts (analytical techniques), and why it's used. Make exams more about understanding, not bloody rote learning and essay writing.
Agreed, I think there should be 10-20% on writing about the important of science, what it has done and areas of research. But that should come with the appreciation of science, which many students lack.
 

scuba_steve2121

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@something: Ask any teacher and they will tell you that there is never enough time.

@lee: Okay cool, that's your solution. Now just get that past all the political barriers and then go onto the incredibly costly and time consuming process of designing the curriculum and bobs your uncle!

What I'm trying to get you to understand is that the situation is far more complex than you're making it out to be, and the sheer amount of academic literature of this particular subject alone is a testament to that.
 

lee337

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@something: Ask any teacher and they will tell you that there is never enough time.

@lee: Okay cool, that's your solution. Now just get that past all the political barriers and then go onto the incredibly costly and time consuming process of designing the curriculum and bobs your uncle!

What I'm trying to get you to understand is that the situation is far more complex than you're making it out to be, and the sheer amount of academic literature of this particular subject alone is a testament to that.
Ha, politics...might aswell take over the world while i'm at it.
 

someth1ng

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@something: Ask any teacher and they will tell you that there is never enough time.

@lee: Okay cool, that's your solution. Now just get that past all the political barriers and then go onto the incredibly costly and time consuming process of designing the curriculum and bobs your uncle!

What I'm trying to get you to understand is that the situation is far more complex than you're making it out to be, and the sheer amount of academic literature of this particular subject alone is a testament to that.
And how often do your teachers tell you the truth about those sort of things. I can assure you, based on what people do during classes, there is definitely enough time.
 

Kiraken

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I do think there is definitely time to go through the basics of science in later primary school and early high school to a far greater extent than atm
 

scuba_steve2121

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And how often do your teachers tell you the truth about those sort of things. I can assure you, based on what people do during classes, there is definitely enough time.
And I can assure you as someone who works in the profession, that there is never enough time.
 

OzKo

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I would like to think the issue isn't so much how much we emphasise a particular academic field but rather how we choose to teach kids across the board.
 

Xt

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A post in the mX today got me thinking that our current schooling system is failing people in regards to science. The post went something like
'A calculator will never turn into an Ipad. You know that yet you believe in evolution'

Whilst science is compulsory till year 10, is that enough or are we doing a dis-service to our children but not giving them a proper science education.
OMG LOOOOL I read that on the train home. Read it like 3 times because I couldn't believe what I was actually reading haha. The person must be a troll!
 

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