what is the best public school out there? (1 Viewer)

[Frigid]

Eviltama:

Firstly, whatever I say, I mean no offence.

if u hadnt noticed... the topic is best PUBLIC school... which eliminates private and selective schools from nomination... and since when has footy been given status as to how good a school is? no one cares abt ur footy or ur school's position in the paper... its worthless. All it shows us is that u had some smart ppl in '02... nothing more...

Errr... in case you haven't noticed eviltama, we're in the forums of boredofstudies.org, an HSC help/support website, meaning the context of the thread implies HSC success, does it not?

Secondly, the reason we are arguing is because some private school people are under the impression that my school (Sydney Boys' High ) are a bunch of mediocre cocky bastards and we are trying to prove them wrong.

If you look at the poll, the majority are selective schools. Allow me to clarify: selective schools ARE public schools! The only difference between selective and comprehensive is that selective is a public school of academic merit.

'Tama, what do you mean by

judge the schools on their merits not urs!

?
Surely a school's merits are based on how its students perform, whether it be academically or on the sporting field? What else is there to compare - who has got larger rower sheds? *winks at private schools*

If you read kaboomable, phenol and my own messages you would understand. We're not just standing up for High, but we're standing up for Public Education in general.

 

[jessika]

ugh really long replies, making my head hurt.

just let me know who wins the argument.

 

[eviltama]

This is just my view...s'oki?

Errr... in case you haven't noticed eviltama, we're in the forums of boredofstudies.org, an HSC help/support website, meaning the context of the thread implies HSC success, does it not?

the HSC forums are to encourage HSC success, not to ram it down someones throat that this school is better than that or that this school does wateva. The context is help, support and encouragement. This isnt helping anyone in anyway other than starting stupid arguements abt which school is better... which doesnt do much since wat u are arguing abt isnt the schools academic perfomance but its sporting prowess... the HSC is an academic event... not a sporting one.

Allow me to clarify: selective schools ARE public schools! The only difference between selective and comprehensive is that selective is a public school of academic merit.

Selective schools are not public schools, they are what they are called... selective.. they hand pick their students...by academic merit.. so of course they should be ranked well.. but they arent public schools open to ALL the public no matter how smart or of what financial level.

Surely a school's merits are based on how its students perform, whether it be academically or on the sporting field? What else is there to compare - who has got larger rower sheds? *winks at private schools*

A schools merits are its teachers, how they effectively they teach. A schools merits are itself, not the students, not its overly expensive sports or its how much it costs to get into it, nor how smart u have to be.
U want to tlak abt school pride, then have some pride in ur school... for what it does/did for you... and what you do/did for it.

 

[bobo123]

The winner is BOS because more forum activity is good

I think you misunderstood me. I do not come from/represent/support Kings. I am merely using it as a reference to debunk your initial post. I argue for arguments sake. Please dont take it too personally

anyway back to it

High is an academically selective school. I am not in a position to debate that point. It is their sporting record which i seek to discuss. Up to now, High has always struggled in the GPS, consistantly bottom of the table each season. Yet I must applaud their pride and determination each Saturday to go to a massacre. The refers back to my initial point which i made about High coaches allowing older students to play down a grade. This is cheating. The age brackets are put in place for a reason. By blatantly ignoring this, High is also placing the integrity of the GPS under threat. I simply cannot understand why a school would still pride itself in the participation of the GPS if they have to cheat just to stay level. Maybe it is time that a little realism hit the administration at High and realise that High's devotion to the GPS while neglecting the academia does itself no good.




On a side note, i was just wondering what GPS sport you are currently doing frigid?

 

[Suvat]

High is an academically selective school. I am not in a position to debate that point. It is their sporting record which i seek to discuss. Up to now, High has always struggled in the GPS, consistantly bottom of the table each season.

bobo123, unless you consider rugby and rowing to be the only sports in the GPS, this statement cannot be further from the truth.

You should look at the sports which Sydney High DOES do well in year after year like soccer, cricket, tennis, rifle shooting, fencing etc. SBHS are far from "consistantly bottom of the table each season", but instead, are genuine premiership contenders.

The strength of the school in pursuits such as debating, chess and public speaking is also undeniable.

In terms of academics, Sydney High is superior to all other GPS schools with the possible exception of Grammar.

This clearly shows that Sydney High has more than what it takes to produce high scores in the HSC while still maintaining its competitiveness in sporting and other pursuits.

On the rugby issue, if you feel that SBHS is threatening the integrity of the GPS, then how do you respond to the fact that Grammar recently had to "hire" players from a country school because they didn't have enough rugby students to fill a first XV rugby side?

 

[bobo123]

very good points suvat

I concede and retract my statement on High's results in the GPS. But then I must request you to accept that High does not have a realistic contention in any premierships either.

I also would like to know why you quoted some of High's achievements in non GPS competitions while falling back into the GPS crowd when talking about the schools academic merits. By making such selective statements, it is easy to put High in a better light.

I still wonder why no one would address my point of High's devotion to the GPS being detrimental to their reputation instead of adding to it. High's continuous downward trend in the HSC is a betrayal of the hopes and aspirations of those who joined for its reputation of academic success.

I have question to those that come from High; What was the main allure of High that made you or your parents nominate it in the selective exams?

On the Grammar issue, I must side with the High fanclub here, WE HATE GRAMMAR!

keke j/k

 

[phenol]

I have question to those that come from High; What was the main allure of High that made you or your parents nominate it in the selective exams?

First of all I would like to comment on the point of this question. To put it into simple words, it HAS no point. Despite the amount of research conducted by parents about a high school which their child will eventually attend - they will merely be secondary infos, from the paper, from other people. This is similar to your argument bobo. You are using secondary info, from paper, heard from friends, whatever, to insult the name of High unjustly.
If you really do come to High and see for yourself, you would find that almost each and every one of your claims are false.
If newspaper or rumours do not create controversy, would it sell or spread? no it would not! Think about the sources of your information because I know that mine are first hand.

I still wonder why no one would address my point of High's devotion to the GPS being detrimental to their reputation instead of adding to it. High's continuous downward trend in the HSC is a betrayal of the hopes and aspirations of those who joined for its reputation of academic success.

This statement AGAIN confirms my point - it seems that your sole source of information regarding High is from the newspapers. I can assure you, you are being lied to. Surely we spiral downward in the HSC by a few ranks but that may also show two things:

1) Other schools are IMPROVING faster than us - doesn't mean we are crap does it?
2) We are working towards our school ethos - to become all rounders and excel in many fields. Among the newly graduated yr 12s, there are many great leaders, helpers, sportsman, scholars.
Keep this in mind - High does not simply strive for academic excellence or sporting merit - we strive for the works! Surely we improve slower, but we are all rounders - this is first hand info for you bobo - respect

I also would like to know why you quoted some of High's achievements in non GPS competitions while falling back into the GPS crowd when talking about the schools academic merits. By making such selective statements, it is easy to put High in a better light.

By making selective statements, it is also easy to put High in bad light. We are merely defending the honour of our school, we are not degrading any other school. The basis of your argument is purely based upon personal opinion or secondary experiences of High. Bobo, you get no where in this world with insults and discrimination! Repent!

On the Grammar issue, I must side with the High fanclub here, WE HATE GRAMMAR!

I dislike grammar and ruse as well - but several of my chem olympiad friends are from grammar and ruse so I'll keep my personal opinions to myself.



In conclusion -

This thread is really pointless - everyone really just vote for their own school and most private school ppl just vote for Ruse because they come first in HSC.

I am perfectly chill with this - but please keep the derogatory comments and worthless and baseless personal opinions to a minimum as they are easily turned against yourself.

Think twice before you hit post


and finally

VERITATE ET VERTUTE

 

[bobo123]

lol phenol heating it up with some emotive words there

Once again I like to state that I argue for arguments sake. I do not consider myself against nor supporting High. I consider it a compliment if you take what i say on a forum so seriously

I must ask, why do you quote my posts and respond with something totally irrelavent? I do not understand your reasonings for your last post. Secondary sources? First hand accounts? Since when did this turn into a modern history lesson?

I asked an innocent question, why dog around it? Or is it because you too, joined High for its academic reputation and not its GPS membership.

Your insistance on basing facts on first hand sources is commendable but have you ever considered that your infatuation of High has given a bias to your judgement.

And also I'm guessing you do not know what j/k means


Please post again suvat, the people in this thread (myself included) have a lot to learn from the coherency and standard of your arguments.


cheers

 

[phenol]

Your insistance on basing facts on first hand sources is commendable but have you ever considered that your infatuation of High has given a bias to your judgement.

Everyone is biased in some way but i dont see how that applies here.
Allow me to summarise this argument. You have argued that Sydney High is so up themselves in terms of academics and so bad at GPS yet are bad losers and try hards that they dont deserve to be the best public school.
I have not argued that High is THE best public school, on the contrary I am merely defending the honour of my school, and saying what you have accused is totally incorrect and lacks evidence. Is what I am arguing biased? If yes, how?

Overall it is funny how you are facetiously and ironically using the principles of rhetorics. In your last response, you are basically making another accusation of me going off topic without giving evidence.
Please quote my exact"off-topicness" rather than randomly using a few of words which i have used.

Your last response also does not support your overall argument in anyway. If you are going to muddle the argument by throwing around random accusations just to deliberately dirty an already lost battle then I no longer feel that this argument should continue. If you can back everything you say with solid evidence or quote then we should continue this as I am enjoying this probably as much as you do.

And also I'm guessing you do not know what j/k means

You really dont learn your lesson. Insults really get you no where in this world - Repent

 

[Frigid]

Bobo123:

I still wonder why no one would address my point of High's devotion to the GPS being detrimental to their reputation instead of adding to it. High's continuous downward trend in the HSC is a betrayal of the hopes and aspirations of those who joined for its reputation of academic success.

Let me convince you, bobo, we are not failing. Our class of 2002 has a 76.4% UAI 90+, that is a significant improvement over the 69.4% of the five year average. We have a 9.3% entrance rate for combined law and 6.4% for medicine (also class of 2002). If that, to you, is getting worse, then all I can say is that I hope my peers and I will prove it to you in HSC 2003.

I have question to those that come from High; What was the main allure of High that made you or your parents nominate it in the selective exams?

LOOK at Ruse et alia, LOOK at THEM... do they offer the same type of all-rounding excellence? Do they offer the GPS? Do they offer so many opportunities to do extra-curricular activities? Hell, do they offer a chance to learn Latin the old-school way (ie. English to Latin)? Do they offer a rich and proud school tradition?

As far as I know, only High and a few privileged private schools offer such services, and none do as High does for such minimum capital.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Eviltama,

U want to tlak abt school pride, then have some pride in ur school... for what it does/did for you... and what you do/did for it.

So... You want to know what I love about my school?

-> I live in Bossley Park 38 kilometres (as the crow flies) to Sydney Boys High, Moore Park. The trip takes an average of 1.5 hours via public transport. I wake at 6 (sometimes this is before dawn) and I have done this since year 7. Right now, I am attending 9 morning classes (7:45am) out of 10 mornings per fortnight cycle.

-> On Saturday mornings, during Winter GPS season, even after a stormy night, I trek out to each cross-country event hosted by members of the GPS, and run my butt off in the Opens category. Yes, I'm not the best, I don't even place under 50, but I try, and I won't finish last (unlike my good friend Opal). But at least Opal and I try. 7 kilometres is not an easy ride. Your lungs burn during the race and lactic acid builds up in your abdominals. The adrenaline rush, and the atmosphere, however, keep you going. Oh, and the fact you've got to beat the guy in cerise in front of you. *winks at Joeys*

NOW, if I did not love my school, would I run my ass off like that? Or rather, would I be a nerd and study my maths all day (*shout-out to C.Q.*)? Or maybe sleep in, and get some rest from such long trips during the weekday...

NO matter how hard the journeys are, or whether I have assessments the following Monday,
you will find me at Centennial Park, or Parramatta Park, or at Kings' , on a Saturday morning, ready to hurt myself for another 40 minutes;
you will find me at the 610 bus stop for the first bus to get to school;
you will find me, giving my school all of my heart.

-> To ME, if a school can produce a student who willingly does that, not because he is forced to (like some private schools), but does so out of school pride, and still thanks his school for it, that school has merit.

-> To ME, if a school can give a student, even in a PUBLIC school, the chance to compete at all levels with both public and private systems, a school that offers a wide range of academic, sporting and cultural opportunities, that school has merit.

To my teachers, all of them, I give thanks. They work, not only those cold mornings, but out on the field during sport. They are not sporting professionals (neither can we afford professional coaches), but they (and Old Boys) sacrifice their time and effort to give us the best chance we got. People like Tony Hannon not only give High, but Public Education, its good name.

Selective schools are not public schools, they are what they are called... selective.. they hand pick their students...by academic merit.. so of course they should be ranked well.. but they arent public schools open to ALL the public no matter how smart or of what financial level.

You are incorrect: my school does not discriminate socio-economic conditions. It is owned by the government. Therefore it is a public school. As long as you got what it takes to compete with the cohort, to play the academic game, we will take you. We do not "hand pick" our students; we take who nominated High in their selective school applications. Perhaps then, 'tama, under your definition, since we did not take your average joe, High is not a public school.

But surely, under mine, it is the most special one.

I'm sure Suvat, phenol and kaboomable would agree.
Veritate et Virtute.

 

[kini mini]

Originally posted by Suvat

In terms of academics, Sydney High is superior to all other GPS schools with the possible exception of Grammar.

This clearly shows that Sydney High has more than what it takes to produce high scores in the HSC while still maintaining its competitiveness in sporting and other pursuits.

On the rugby issue, if you feel that SBHS is threatening the integrity of the GPS, then how do you respond to the fact that Grammar recently had to "hire" players from a country school because they didn't have enough rugby students to fill a first XV rugby side?

I'll just butt in here to defend my old school...

A couple of years ago SGS had to hire, borrow, whatever some TAS guys (Armidale, a fellow GPS school) to make up the numbers for the first XV matches. There was a lot of media controversy about the decline of proud sporting traditions, blah blah blah. The fact was that it was politically impossible IMO for Dr Townsend, the then headmaster, NOT to field a team - which is what he should have done I thought. Thankfully, I don't think it threatened the integrity of the GPS, as I recall the usual euphemisms for "despite all our hard work we got beaten again" came out at assembly every week. The fact is, rugby simply was not an issue for the majority of students. I frankly didn't give a damn. At least no-one was further disadvantaged in the competition, to my knowledge anyway.

In terms of academic work, from what I know of SBH it is an excellent school. It has a similar philosophy about producing all-rounders to Grammar, which takes a slightly more formal approach in its pursuit of the liberal education. As for results, I think the two are difficult to compare. Grammar is a mix of students who came from the prep schools who weren't selected at all, those who got into the primary schools in later years (I don't know how they were selected), and those who entered in year 7 through the entrance exam or on scholarships like me. This typically produces a results profile that is great at the top but frops off a bit. I have no idea what things are like at SBH. I feel that Grammar gave me the opportunity to take part in all sorts of activities, and to do as well academically as I ws apable of doing. What more can you ask for?

I don't mean to say SGS is perfect, or that any school is. It has a number of serious problems. But I doubt you'll get a much better school in NSW.

 

[kini mini]

Originally posted by Frigid


LOOK at Ruse et alia, LOOK at THEM... do they offer the same type of all-rounding excellence? Do they offer the GPS? Do they offer so many opportunities to do extra-curricular activities? Hell, do they offer a chance to learn Latin the old-school way (ie. English to Latin)? Do they offer a rich and proud school tradition?

As far as I know, only High and a few privileged private schools offer such services, and none do as High does for such minimum capital.

I think that you are going overboard in your criticism Frigid. I don't know what JR offers in the way of extracurricular activities, but is the GPS sporting arrangement that valuable? Is it more than a well orgainised sporting program like the other arrangements for schools in NSW? Is learning Latin and the classics the old school way a reasonable measure of a school's merit? I learned Latin the "old school" way from Pat & Mac for a year in year 7 and ended up getting the third highest mark in my year. I can say that I am friends with 8 of the 14 Classical Greek candidates from 2002. It was an interesting experience but other schools can offer equally valuable ones in other subjects.

What is so wonderful about a school tradition anyway? Grammar has had a great tradition as the first school in Australia and I don't feel that the tradition was especially valuable. It became a political football. The present is far more important than the glories of the past, and JR deserves credit.
[/B][/QUOTE]

 

[pigs_can_fly]

Originally posted by bobo123


The diversity of High's activities leaves them in the middle of nowhere. Bottom of the GPS

i think you should review ur sources: yes, i agree we bottomed out in GPS rugby, but have a look at tennis (1st grade runner-ups), basketball (runner-ups in Raschke Cup), cricket (currently 1st on the GPS 1st grade ladder), soccer (runner-ups in 1st grade, premiers in 2nd), rifle shooting (GPS Champions incl. the GPS Cup for winning all meets through the season). if you still want to call that bottom of the GPS then i don't know what else i can say...

 

[pigs_can_fly]

oh...by the way

veritate et virtute

SBHS RULZ

 

[marsenal]

we love you High

It's very interesting to see that High has turned into the main topic of converstaion in a public school forum. Firstly let me just say, that like Frigid I'm from High, and I can't say whether it is the best school or not, but I can say that I absolutely love the place. I fell honored to be a part of the institution. I fell honored to be friends with such people as Frigid, and just going back to an earlier post of his in which he gave you guys a bit of a bio of himself- that really does repsresent what High is all about. I think the best thing about High is that no matter what you like doing, no matter how good you are, no matter how far from school you live, etc you are given the opportunity to do this, as participation in all aspects is highly encouraged. I do realise that other school also offer a great variety of activities, but usually people aren't able to participate in everything unless they are at least semi-good. At High that doesn't usually come into it. Let me give you guys an example......there is a statewide chess competition, which happens every term 2-3, now ever since I can remember High has always had the most teams competing in this....with varied success (I believe the last time we won it was 1999-senior, that year we were also runners up in junior). What I'm basically saying is that other schools grade their teams and take this very seriesly (especially Grammar), but at High the purpose of entering is just to have a bit of fun and for a bit of a challenege, and if you want to play and can find 3 mates to play as well, then your in, whereas Garmmar only takes the best (sorry to pick on Grammar again). And thats's just one of the things that I like about this place.

Now this brings me to another point, a very minor one though, that of hating other schools and the like. I don't hate any other school, and I don't think many people at High dislike Grammra either. We just love to beat them, and that goes for mopst schools- it's a great feeling to come out victorious against all odds, and to have fun while you're at it. The most recent example of mine of this is my basketball game against Kings in term 4 2002. This was the first time that we played Kings in anything since we forfit the 2 rugby games to them, and they gave us a lot of shit before and during the game. We had not won a game prior to this game, but at the same time the season had been heaps fun and we had been really enjoying ourselves even though we were losing, and we weren't about to let into the deregatory calls of Kings and comfortably beat them for our first win. We did this withn only having two subs (to Kings 5) and also we don't have a coach. It was a great felling to win, but what was even greater was when the Kings coach came up to us after the game and said that he hadn't seen a team having so much fun in a long time. Since that game we have won the following 2, and are on a bit of a roll. What I'm trying to say is that High give you the chance to really be yourself and you also get the chance to participate in whatever you like at little cost. Don't get me wrong,we love to win, but in the process it's a lot more important wo have fun (I mean isn't that what school is supposed to be about, and not professional sport and HSC factories), and at High no matter what the result we enjoy ourselves.

My next point, Rugby at High. In regard to the whole thing of people playing down a grade. This idea was actually initially put forward at the GPS Haeds meeting (all the GPS schools), and it was pporove by the schools in the spirit of more interesting competition. It's not supposed to be about winning at all costs, but giving everyone the opportunity to play sport. The GPS was initially set up so as to provide similar schools with the opportunity of playing games, and not to show who was the best.

In regard to the point of High doing itself a disservice of competing in the GPS, thus lowering its HSC potential. Someone said that we come last in the GPS and bottom of top 10 in HSC. Well we did come last in the Rugby last year, but as has been stated on a number of times Rugby is only one sport. Lets have a look at some others: Soccer-runners up 2001-2, rifle shooting -champs 2001, tennis-runners up 2002, basketball-runners up Raschke Cup 2001-2, cricket-3rd 2001 just to name a few.

In regard to the person who was defending James Ruse and justyfying this with many more facts. All I can say is that it's great to see your guys being involved in varied activities as well. Obviously as you are an agricultural school, you have those links as well, somthing we don't have at High. You also mentioned that half your school was in the ISCF. I'm not sure what you were actually trying to say by this, because as I see it religion is a very dangerous topic especially, but I'm sure you menat no ill by saying that. But since you brought it up, at High we've also got quite a few people in the ISCF, but there is also a Jewish Club as well as a sort of Hindu Club (I'm not exactly sure how this one works though).

I can't remember what else I wanted to say. Maybe I'll remember later. But basically when it comes down to it High is a great school. It has pursued its aim of producing all-round students with ggreat success. I think Frigid summed it up really well when he said that the year 7's that come in are quite nerdy, and yet by the time they leave they are well-rounded men. This is because of the fact that High doesnt just focus on one aspect, but on many aspects, and brings out the best in most. And for this I love the place.

 

[marsenal]

we love you High

I realise my post was a bit over the place, But I'm kind of tired right now.
Also I apologise for restating some facts, I guess that happens when you don't read all the posts......

 

[tt_j65]

Originally posted by Frigid
*matter-o'-factly*
why t-i-m-m-y, I WILL!

<SNIPED>

t-i-m-m-y, where's your school pride?

we have no pride in our school

 

[bobo123]

lol look at all the trouble i made

Two questions, to each of the High students, no answers required. Just think about it.

Do you HONESTLY think that your grade is composed of all rounders (acadamic/sport/social) or is there a sort of rift that divides the nerds and the jocks? and,

Disregarding all other aspects (location,etc), would you have preferred to go to James Ruse in year 7?


I have nothing else to contribute to this topic
I commend some of the High students on their points
wouldnt like to run into a debate with phenol, he sounds like his gona hit me

 

[pigs_can_fly]

[Q] Two questions, to each of the High students, no answers required. Just think about it.

Do you HONESTLY think that your grade is composed of all rounders (acadamic/sport/social) or is there a sort of rift that divides the nerds and the jocks? and,

Disregarding all other aspects (location,etc), would you have preferred to go to James Ruse in year 7? [/Q]

firstly, i agree with u. i think there is definitely a divide, but one that's not as distinct as a rift etc. on the one side, there are the bludgers, who basically don't participate in anything and just play games all day; on the other hand, there are those who basically make the most of the opportunities presented at High - a prime example is our school captain (i guess its expected of him) who is like the perfect allrounder: 2nd grade basketball, 1st grade soccer, sailing, chess, crosscountry, school captain, src prez, has organised numerous clubs at the school, including philosophy, and he's dux; which just goes to show what sort of people HIgh produces; and then there are those in the middle, who are commited to the school somewhat, but not in an extreme way (like our captain). so yes, there are nerds, and yes they don't do anything else but study (although some of them do; like myself), but i think that every school in sydney has a fair share of these people, but really, there's nothing you can do to help them, i mean, HSC and UAI are like permanently pasted in their brains.

about the 2nd question: yes and no. the nerdy part in me would have said yes. i reckon (and i don't want to be cocky or vain or anything) i prbly would have thrived their, and come out with 100 or close to it. but after 5 years at high, i've realised that the HSC isn't everything. i mean it sorta is, but by being at high, i'll prbly still come out with 100 or close to it, but i will have learned, and enjoyed and experienced so much more than i would have at Ruse, and so when i come to think of it now, i don't regret going to HIgh at all (and not going to RUse), and as much as we like to say we only go to HIgh because we can't afford Grammer or couldnt get a scholarship, i think inside us all, we really appreciate and cherish the fact that we are indeed at High, and that so many other people aren't.

also, i never would have gone to Ruse anyway, i live way too close to the city to waste my time travelling there, and i am nowhere near as crazy as Frigid.

 

[pigs_can_fly]

sorry, that first part was meant to be a quote