Who calculated the ranks? School/BOS... (1 Viewer)

[VQ]

It is just my concern, because I see a lot of ppl have different ranks from what they previously get at school (and me too)...

Does any1 know who actually calculated the rank? Is it the school who calculated the rank and just feed the rank in to the BOS or is it the BOS who calculated and the school only feed in the raw marks of assessments?

I mean, the difference of ranks can be because the BOS and school have different ways of rounding up the marks (as in school rounding the raw marks, averaged them, and round them again or the school averaged the raw marks and round them)....

Any1 has idea on this?

 

[Rafy]

Well im quite sure its the school.
They calculate the rankings and submit them to bos.

 

[cem]

If you are talking about the final rankings what happens is this:

your school complete the assessment programme and calculates a mark and a rank for you within the class as a whole.

that raw mark and rank is feed to the BOS

after the exams the raw marks are scaled to your exam results as a group with the top ranked student receiving the top exam mark earned by the group and the bottom ranked student receiving the bottom exam mark as their scaled assessment mark

the other members of the group are then awarded scaled assessment marks based on the ranks from the school

HOWEVER

the assessment result is only half the final result with the other half being the exam

the final step to get your final mark and rank is adding together your scaled assessment mark and scaled exam mark

this is why your final rank can differ - if you do a better or worse in relation to the rest of your class than you had done throughout the year your rank will change.

 

[jaihson]

Well im quite sure its the school.
They calculate the rankings and submit them to bos.

My teacher said that they dont submit rankings, they just submit the assessment mark and the BOS then use it to determine ranking and the discrepency between the students.

 

[VQ]

That explains then, if the school feed in the marks, not the ranks

 

[Lazarus]

That's correct - schools send in marks.

 

[danieljarvis]

is that all the same at TAFE's ?

 

[cem]

That explains then, if the school feed in the marks, not the ranks

Remember that all ranks are based on marks, school ranks on the marks the school send into the BOS and final ranks on the adjustments the BOS makes to those results and the exam marks you achieve.

I am a teacher and I send to the BOS my students' marks but when they asked me their school based ranks they were based on their marks sent to the BOS so in that way the school does send the BOS ranks.

The BOS then deals with the marks the way I indicated and gives you back your final mark.

The most important thing that the BOS want from the school is the correct rank order of students in the class AND the correct differences in standards between the students.

My class this year for instance had one outstanding student whose mark was 93, the next best was 75, with then five very close together 71,70, 69 and 2 @ 68 with a tail starting at 41 down to 6.

The board will adjust these marks according the the exam results remembering that the Band 1/2 cutoff can be as low as 6 or 7 in some subjects but this then scales to 50.

I expect all my students to get Band 2 or above (even the weaky at 6 who missed 2 assessment tasks but did complete the exam and stayed in for the full 3 hours writing the whole time.)

Schools use a full range of marks from 0 - 100 but for about 98% of students in each course the board uses a range from 50 - 100 so the differences will be cut down but the overall ranks will be determined by a combination of the mark we send in and your final exam result. Marks determine ranks, is a simple way of saying it.

 

[VQ]

Sorry, but maybe I'm slow, because I could not really get ur explanation...

So, the school send the raw marks as well as the ranks? And the BOS only adjusted them? Is the raw marks the one averaged, or???

The problem is, like in the case of me,
My school gives in the ranks (that will contribute to UAI or sth) in the report card.
I ranked 2nd in physics and in official BOS website (studentsonline), that is my rank as well..
However, my teacher changed my report, so my physics' rank becomes 3rd but the one in BOS website doesn't change...

When I asked, he said that my 2nd rank is based on the raw marks getting rounded up, then averaged, then rounded again giving me my marks of 2 times rounded, my 3rd rank is based on the raw marks getting averaged then rounded up (once rounding, so it should be more accurate)...I dunno which method is used by BOS anyway....

I know I am being advantaged, and the teacher seems to see no problem although he knew this...but I'm just feeling sorry for the people mixed with me in rank (though the actual different in our marks is only 0.2% >.<)...so which is actually correct?

IF the BOS is the one who calculated the rank, I mean, then there should be no problem, should there?

Thanks anyway

 

[cem]

Sorry, but maybe I'm slow, because I could not really get ur explanation...

So, the school send the raw marks as well as the ranks? And the BOS only adjusted them? Is the raw marks the one averaged, or???

The problem is, like in the case of me,
My school gives in the ranks (that will contribute to UAI or sth) in the report card.
I ranked 2nd in physics and in official BOS website (studentsonline), that is my rank as well..
However, my teacher changed my report, so my physics' rank becomes 3rd but the one in BOS website doesn't change...

When I asked, he said that my 2nd rank is based on the raw marks getting rounded up, then averaged, then rounded again giving me my marks of 2 times rounded, my 3rd rank is based on the raw marks getting averaged then rounded up (once rounding, so it should be more accurate)...I dunno which method is used by BOS anyway....

I know I am being advantaged, and the teacher seems to see no problem although he knew this...but I'm just feeling sorry for the people mixed with me in rank (though the actual different in our marks is only 0.2% >.<)...so which is actually correct?

IF the BOS is the one who calculated the rank, I mean, then there should be no problem, should there?

Thanks anyway

How your teacher calculated your rank should have been spelt out in your school's assessment policy at the beginning of the course i.e. what each task was, when each task was and how much each task was worth. That information can't be changed without notifying you in writing e.g. if the teacher made an error with the weightings according to the syllabus such as weighting an exam at 50% when the syllabus says 40% for instance.

Your teacher will award marks for each task and then convert them to the maximum for that task. E.g. if the task was worth 15% and the teacher marked it out of 125 they would have to convert x/125 to y/15 (and so you get decimal points). Over 5 tasks (often with separate components) you can get decimal points that run into double figures if using calculators or computers without a determining number. Ours at school automatically rounds to 3 decimal places until we tell it to round to reach the final raw mark.

With my students I make things easy by marking each task out of what it is worth in percentage terms with the exception of the half-yearly and yearly exams or by using a multiple of that percentage. e.g. my first task for the 2006 cohort is worth 15% and will be marked out of 30 so that will be divided by 2 to get the mark out of 15. When the other two tasks (besides the exams) are issued they will be out of 25 and 20 repectively to add to 60% with the exams worth 10% and 30% thus my final mark /100. I send that mark through to the BOS and that is what they use for your ranks.

All that the school sends to the BOS is a raw whole mark so decimal places have to be rounded. How many decimal places were used to start with may determine why your teacher did one lot of rounding and then decided to round differently for your report.

Our reports only give the rank based on the trial NOT the final assessment as they get their reports at the end of Term 3 and they can't get their final ranks until 11th November.

 

[daniandrow]

sooo what happens if the top ranked student doesnt get the top exam mark????

 

[Carnivour]

It seems that in our year there are at least 4 people ranked 2nd in English, which seems like a pretty stupid thing to do, right? It means that if one of those people doesnt do well in the exam, the rest will get pulled down, right?

And its annoying also, because really, there was no way that all of us could have gotten exact same assesment mark for the BOS to say that we are equal 2nd.

 

[sarahn]

It seems that in our year there are at least 4 people ranked 2nd in English, which seems like a pretty stupid thing to do, right? It means that if one of those people doesnt do well in the exam, the rest will get pulled down, right?

And its annoying also, because really, there was no way that all of us could have gotten exact same assesment mark for the BOS to say that we are equal 2nd.

don't worry - a similar thing happened in one of my classes, with three kids nearly inseparable in terms of marks for third rank, and our maths co-ordinator (who knows all about the system), advised our teacher to submit an identical assessment mark for all three....apparently it IS to your advantage - personally i dont really know how it works

 

[dan_viper88]

Well in my report i came 6th in English (overall assessment) but on students online i was ranked 7th. Obviously concerned I went to my school this morning and appparently the problem was that i came equal 6th and the person i tied with had a 0.5 higher mark then me but our percentages were still the same. But they had to discriminate between the both of us so i ended up getting 7th rank although i was 6th.
Does this information that my school gave me sound true? can the board discriminate on the basis of 0.5 marks?

 

[kami]

is that all the same at TAFE's ?

Same for TAFEs as schools.

 

[cem]

Well in my report i came 6th in English (overall assessment) but on students online i was ranked 7th. Obviously concerned I went to my school this morning and appparently the problem was that i came equal 6th and the person i tied with had a 0.5 higher mark then me but our percentages were still the same. But they had to discriminate between the both of us so i ended up getting 7th rank although i was 6th.
Does this information that my school gave me sound true? can the board discriminate on the basis of 0.5 marks?

What doesn't make sense to me is that at my school we are told by the BOS to only submit whole marks so the school has to adjust the 0.5 marks not the BOS. Outside of that - yes it does make sense.

 

[cem]

sooo what happens if the top ranked student doesnt get the top exam mark????

The best way to explain would be to give an hypothetical example.



Raw Assessment Marks

Students A 86 B 76 C 75 D 64 E 51


Scaled Exam Marks

Students A 76 B 81 C 73 D 54 E 60


Adjusted Assessment Mark


Students A 81 E 54


As you can see the top assessment mark is the same as the top exam mark but it goes to the student with the top school based assessment mark. The same thing happens at the bottom.


The next step is to add up the total marks gained by the class in the exam - 344 (I think but my arithmetic ain't that good after HSC marking since 4.00 p.m. this evening).

Now add the top and bottom assessment marks - 135 and take that away from 344 - 209.

That is the total marks to be awarded as scaled assessment marks to the rest of the group keeping the given differences in the original assessment gaps porportionately the same.

This happens quite a lot in fact particualarly where the top end or bottom end of the class is very close together.

I wouldn't be surprised if my 4th ranked student ends up with the best exam result as they are the best exam writer of the group but the others aren't slouches by any means. I don't expect any difference at the bottom.

 

[dan_viper88]

What doesn't make sense to me is that at my school we are told by the BOS to only submit whole marks so the school has to adjust the 0.5 marks not the BOS. Outside of that - yes it does make sense.

What should i do? Should i contest my ranking? or should i let it be? I am not exactly certain if i should act on this? I was under the immpression that the fact that our assesment percentages were the same then we should get equal rank (6th). I some how feel that i am being disadvantged. Further more, on my report it was stated that i came 6/23 and no where did it say that i was equal sixth. Do i have the authority to reqest proof from my school that i was tied with another student? I am confused, Help please....

 

[cem]

What should i do? Should i contest my ranking? or should i let it be? I am not exactly certain if i should act on this? I was under the immpression that the fact that our assesment percentages were the same then we should get equal rank (6th). I some how feel that i am being disadvantged. Further more, on my report it was stated that i came 6/23 and no where did it say that i was equal sixth. Do i have the authority to reqest proof from my school that i was tied with another student? I am confused, Help please....

First of all check the reporting system from the school. At my school the computerised reporting system we use doesn't allow for an indication of equals to appear on the report. If your system is the same then that could explain why the report only said 6/23 and not eq6/23.

Next ask the teacher to tell you if the same mark was entered for the student who had the same percentages as you.

If so then why the ranks would be different at the BOS wouldn't make sense.

By all means ask them to check it. If you still aren't convinced then contact the BOS, explain what has happened and ask them what procedure they recommend you follow. Whether this is an appealable situation I don't know as I have never experienced it.

 

[dan_viper88]

Do you think a 0.5 difference 82.9-83.4 will make a difference in the end? Because my teacher said that 1-8th were very close. Also there was a tie at 4th as well as 6th. Apparently the tie at 4th became 4 and 5th. Does the BOS accept ties. Because my school said their must be a difference between ties, is this true?