Who is going to vote liberal? (2 Viewers)

[Azamakumar]

I agree with hunter1 a page back, I'd like to see the liberals back for another term but I'm not sure if they can swing it this time around.

:/

 

[Smithereens]

How many seats does the Coalition have to lose to lose their actual Senate majority?

 

[withoutaface]

To maintain a working majority they need to keep 3 seats in each state and 1 in each territory. To maintain a blocking majority (i.e. half the house) they can lose 1 seat in either NSW, SA, ACT or Tasmania.

 

[kokodamonkey]

This is a serious question. Of those of you who have just turned 18 in the past year or two, how many are actually going to support the liberal government in the next election? I'm just curious, because I only actually know two people who are liberal supporters (unless the others are too afraid to admit it) - and I'm pretty sure its just because their parents raised them like that.

Now, Im not trying to say that Kevin Rudd is the second coming of Jesus, or that John Howard is the antichrist. In fact, both parties have noticable flaws. But, I just cannot see why anyone would even consider voting for the cohalition, who have - dispite "experience" messed with the economy, declared in favour of an abominable war, passed disgraceful workplace and terrorism legislation, and even blatently lied to the Australian people (I give you AWB, WMDs in Iraq, Children overboard, GST....).

So, seriously. Why would you consider voting for Johnny?

I am 17 so i wont be voting in the election but when i am 18 i will vote liberal whenever i can!

Let me just say, it really is a shame and bad luck for the Howard government that people like you dont really have the ability to comprehend or understand what life is like under a labor goverment.. I mean just look how the states are being run..

The GST.. whats wrong with that? GST is a great idea to tackle our shitty tax system that was only really taxing income and not spending.. GST replaced a lot of taxes that unfairly disadvantage and distorted consumer and business investment unfavourably towards certaint industries in the economy..

I hardly see what AWB has to do with Howard.

How did he lie about WMD's in iraq? He didnt.

Workchoices is the best thing since sliced bread.. Employers should be able to run their business as if it is their own, because funny enough.. it actually is! you should be able to fire and hire people when you want, and not have the fear of getting taken to court if you fire someone because you can no longer keep them on, and that was stuffing up employment because that made people too scared to hire individuals in the first place.. This introduces more flexibility and lowers unemployment.. Whats there to complain about? Only people that have the need to worry are those that do the wrong thing.. If you dont like where your working, no one is putting a gun to your head, go somewhere else!

Whats wrong with Iraq War? We did the right thing by going in. We did a good job at doing it too. However the only problem is that we didnt adequately plan on the rebuilding.. We do a good job at blowing shit up just not too good about putting the pieces back together... and we all make mistakes..

Disgrace messing with the economy? Jeez what crack are you on? Please wake up and stop letting the left-winged media spoonfeed you please. Your probably one of those people that watch aca/todaytonight and neighbours/home&AWay and think about our shokcing all these "Current affair " Investigations are..

Any other distorted lies you want to portray comrade?

 

[Azamakumar]

I agree with kokodamonkey 100%, except for the bit about Iraq. In all honesty, where have you been living for the last 11 years?

Standards of living have raised, unemployment levels plummeted. Most people don't seem to appreciate the importance of the economy. That said the coalition seems to be the only one with any sense when it comes to running it.

You don't have your facts straight about Iraq though, he made a decision based on false intelligence, much the same that Blair did. A judgement was made based on information recieved, there were no lies told.

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

if you'd asked me who i'd vote for a couple of months ago, i would have said labor. but the labor candidate in my electorate (Michael Vassili) doesnt inspire much confidence in me, so i'll be voting in the liberal candidate (Louise Markus), hillsong connections and all. from reading Vassili's vision for Greenway compared to Markus', it's Markus that actually gets down to the specifics of the issues affecting my area (ie, the safety and quality of the roads, facilities in the local schools, the state of the river, etc). Vassili, at least from what i have seen, keeps on talking about the wider national issues without engaging enough with the local ones, and thats fine, but if i wanted a rant about workchoices i'd look to Rudd. I want to know what he'll do for Greenway, specifically the Hawkesbury, that Markus isn't already planning to do, and I havent found much evidence of anything.

 

[Triangulum]

it's Markus that actually gets down to the specifics of the issues affecting my area (ie, the safety and quality of the roads, facilities in the local schools, the state of the river, etc). Vassili, at least from what i have seen, keeps on talking about the wider national issues without engaging enough with the local ones

Sounds like Vassili is trying to campaign on issues which are actually constitutionally granted to the commonwealth government, which I think is admirable. You can be assured that the only reason that liberal candidates are going so much on 'roads!' and 'security cameras!' and 'schools!' and 'Lebanese thugs!' and so on is because most of the Coalition's actual federal policies (WorkChoices, "We're seriously serious about climate change. Seriously", new hospital bureaucracies and a confused mishmash of state-federal hospital control) are electoral poison.

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

Sounds like Vassili is trying to campaign on issues which are actually constitutionally granted to the commonwealth government, which I think is admirable. You can be assured that the only reason that liberal candidates are going so much on 'roads!' and 'security cameras!' and 'schools!' and 'Lebanese thugs!' and so on is because most of the Coalition's actual federal policies (WorkChoices, "We're seriously serious about climate change. Seriously", new hospital bureaucracies and a confused mishmash of state-federal hospital control) are electoral poison.

perhaps. but the state of some of the roads here really does need fixing and i haven't heard anything from vassili on what he's going to do to rectify the problem, whereas markus seems to have a plan in place.

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

yeah you're right. its the oldest trick in politics. if your party is unpopular overall, try campaigning about grass roots local issues, even if you have no control over them.

what do you mean by no control?

 

[Iron]

yeah you're right. its the oldest trick in politics. if your party is unpopular overall, try campaigning about grass roots local issues, even if you have no control over them.

Uuuh... the Grants power is very broad. The Cth can think up any state policy and tell the states to get on with it if they want the dosh.
Never get between a Premier and a bucket of money.

 

[kokodamonkey]

I agree with kokodamonkey 100%, except for the bit about Iraq. In all honesty, where have you been living for the last 11 years?

Standards of living have raised, unemployment levels plummeted. Most people don't seem to appreciate the importance of the economy. That said the coalition seems to be the only one with any sense when it comes to running it.

You don't have your facts straight about Iraq though, he made a decision based on false intelligence, much the same that Blair did. A judgement was made based on information recieved, there were no lies told.

If he didnt know it was false intelligence, then he is not a liar. If i give you a metallica cd that i said was signed by all of metallica, and you went around telling everyone that you have a geniuine metallia autographs on your cd, does that make you a liar if it turns out i was making it uP? No it doesnt. so on that count John Howard is not a liar.

Secondly, Its good to know there are some people that agree with me and the truth that exists in this reality!

Thirdly, Who says there wernt wmd in iraq? Sadamn knew he was going to get his ass kicked. What do you thinks better for "his cause/case" To be found with all these weapons? Or to go hide them in pakistan? I mean think about it.. Therefore i reckon there were WMD and he got them moved to pakistan or something, even if im wrong about that, im still right about howard not being a liar..

 

[withoutaface]

Sounds like Vassili is trying to campaign on issues which are actually constitutionally granted to the commonwealth government, which I think is admirable. You can be assured that the only reason that liberal candidates are going so much on 'roads!' and 'security cameras!' and 'schools!' and 'Lebanese thugs!' and so on is because most of the Coalition's actual federal policies (WorkChoices, "We're seriously serious about climate change. Seriously", new hospital bureaucracies and a confused mishmash of state-federal hospital control) are electoral poison.

There's plenty of scope for both parties to make broader policy announcements through the newspapers, TV, radio, etc, I don't see why they need to be rehashed in people's letterboxes. As Iron's already pointed out, these issues can still be paid for by a Federal body if it becomes clear that the states are neglecting their responsibilities for one reason or another.

 

[davidbarnes]

I'll dig up my chemistry dot point summaries if you promise to vote Liberal.

Lol, how good are the notes? 3 years Liberal vs Chemistry...

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

There's plenty of scope for both parties to make broader policy announcements through the newspapers, TV, radio, etc, I don't see why they need to be rehashed in people's letterboxes. As Iron's already pointed out, these issues can still be paid for by a Federal body if it becomes clear that the states are neglecting their responsibilities for one reason or another.

exactly, i don't want to hear about the broader national issues from my local candidate - i want to hear about the specific local issues. So workchoices sucks, okay, i heard it the first three thousand times from mr. rudd. I don't need the local candidate to reinforce that, and i don't see anything wrong with wanting the local candidates to focus on local issues and leave the broader party policies to the tv/radio campaigns.

 

[withoutaface]

The states are underfunded to begin with. Hence the federal government needs to "bail them out" and can then claim the credit for it.

If NSW was that far underfunded I dare say it wouldn't be running a surplus.

 

[Azamakumar]

Getting off topic, but here goes.

Iirc, the ultimatum offered by Bush was that he leave Iraq or they invade. He chose to stay, leading to his eventual capture, in Iraq. If he was in possession of such WMD's, why didn't he just send em off to America in a bid to hold them off/deter them. Keep in mind that the existence of such WMD's were used as a scapegoat to invade Iraq, proven later (more or less) as he was trialled and executed for crimes against humanity. And let's not forget the scientists and political figures (2 british and 3 american?) that had committed suicide shortly after the revelation that the invasion was based on false evidence. Iraq and the Tampa are possibly the only stains against his name.

Also I wasn't disagreeing with your statement about him not lying, I'd vote for him too if I was 18.

Good analogy. You're not a liar. But you're deceptive and foolish for believing it was a metallica CD without checking and then telling everyone this unconfirmed statement. Similarly, there were holes in the case for war for Iraq. Howard may not have been responsible for them, but he could have had ASIO checked them rather than deciding to go to war based on very flimsy evidence.

Hit that one on the head. It was just ignorance on Howard's part.

 

[kokodamonkey]

yeah. Lovely analogy i know thankyou. I still think you have to get over the argument of whether there were wmds or not, because that argument can go on all night. You have to face the facts and realise that what we did was the RIGHT THING and we have to stick to it. whether you agree with the invasion or not we have to stick to it and fix the job up. The people are better off now that sadamn isnt killing them.. now they are just killing each other.. its like Catholics vs Protestants muslim style.

 

[Azamakumar]

We had no business in Iraq, Bush went in for oil, we followed under the pretense that we were liberating a country. Objectively you could say that was accomplished, yet from what you just said, it's a backward step; the same amount of people are still dying, but there is less authoritarian control in Iraq.

Nonetheless it's a blemish on his image, and people are always going to capitalise on that when campaigning against him.

 

[Iron]

Nonetheless it's a blemish on his image, and people are always going to capitalise on that when campaigning against him.

You think that the PM should be let off the hook for leading the nation into an unwinnable war for the wrong reasons?

I think Iraq will only play a periphery role in voting intentions, but it has got to rank as one of the biggest cock-ups the Cth has gotten into

 

[Azamakumar]

You think that the PM should be let off the hook for leading the nation into an unwinnable war for the wrong reasons?

I think Iraq will only play a periphery role in voting intentions, but it has got to rank as one of the biggest cock-ups the Cth has gotten into

No. Going there was stupid, and wasn't going to pay off. It's wasted quite a lot of money, and I don't dispute it's one of the stupidest things they've done. They've wasted a lot of taxpayer money supporting the effort, and will continue to do so past the foreseeable future.

But he realised that and committed himself to making it right. Surely that counts for something?