Who thinks the HSC is unfair? (2 Viewers)

[possessionless]

Humanities and arts are just as 'real', important and challenging as sciences and maths. The HSC is an exam of memory and its single purpose is to churn out university students. It may be unrealistic but I believe we need a system which caters to all kinds of intelligence and prepares students for the real word.

this.

 

[philphie]

Humanities and arts are just as 'real', important and challenging as sciences and maths. The HSC is an exam of memory and its single purpose is to churn out university students. It may be unrealistic but I believe we need a system which caters to all kinds of intelligence and prepares students for the real word.

agreed. there is a complete lack of practical and vocational sensibility in the hsc

 

[Azarnakumar]

I agree despite the fact this guy negged me for no reason.

There's about ten people using this account at the moment

 

[waza_]

Yeah I believe it is unfair in certain areas and yes I was one of the very unlucky few who got really shit ATAR (39.7 if you're wondering) even though I don't need an ATAR for what I want to study I don't like the way they do the scaling.

In my situation I went really well in English, IPT and art but went horrible in Maths and Hospitality, I thought it was unfair that I got a really shit ATAR because I was really bad at 2 subjects but pretty decent in 3 others

But again I don't need an ATAR so it doesn't really effect me

 

[noelknows]

We don't want the HSC to churn out vocationally-bound students. We want it to produce scholarly, free-thinking students, who have engaged in intellectual, abstract, and eclectic concepts in their schooling, which they can later apply to whatever occupation - rather than those restricted in the world of whatever job they've been planning on for the past 4 years. The HSC has too many vocationally-driven subjects.

 

[Bar901]

Yeah I believe it is unfair in certain areas and yes I was one of the very unlucky few who got really shit ATAR (39.7 if you're wondering) even though I don't need an ATAR for what I want to study I don't like the way they do the scaling.

In my situation I went really well in English, IPT and art but went horrible in Maths and Hospitality, I thought it was unfair that I got a really shit ATAR because I was really bad at 2 subjects but pretty decent in 3 others

But again I don't need an ATAR so it doesn't really effect me

Somehow I think your definition of "really well" differs from that of the general public.

Once again, repeat after me, scaling can not be blamed for all your failures.

 

[noelknows]

Yeah I believe it is unfair in certain areas and yes I was one of the very unlucky few who got really shit ATAR (39.7 if you're wondering) even though I don't need an ATAR for what I want to study I don't like the way they do the scaling.

In my situation I went really well in English, IPT and art but went horrible in Maths and Hospitality, I thought it was unfair that I got a really shit ATAR because I was really bad at 2 subjects but pretty decent in 3 others

But again I don't need an ATAR so it doesn't really effect me

Then you shouldn't have picked maths and hospos as subjects?

 

[Azarnakumar]

We don't want the HSC to churn out vocationally-bound students. We want it to produce scholarly, free-thinking students, who have engaged in intellectual, abstract, and eclectic concepts in their schooling, which they can later apply to whatever occupation - rather than those restricted in the world of whatever job they've been planning on for the past 4 years. The HSC has too many vocationally-driven subjects.

The HSC churns out students who are programmed to do what they're told. I never said it should be focused toward jobs, but knowledge which will prepare them for life (which includes the ability to think, problem solve, look past the obvious etc).

 

[noelknows]

The HSC churns out students who are programmed to do what they're told. I never said it should be focused toward jobs, but knowledge which will prepare them for life (which includes the ability to think, problem solve, look past the obvious etc).

"knowledge which will prepare them for life" sounds dangerously like a euphemism for vocationally-minded courses. You fail to realise that 'life knowledge' is gained in so many other ways. It's all around us, we are taught it by our families, our communities, by the experience of going to school, in our relationships, sporting teams, and co-curricular activities. The HSC is doing it's job, and 'life knowledge' does not need to be its focus, there's enough of that to go around in other facets of a student's life. That said, life skills like working towards deadlines, organisation, and the value of hard work are all demonstrated in the HSC.

And how on earth to you validate this bold assertion: "The HSC churns out students who are programmed to do what they're told." I've never heard anything as sweeping as it is wrong.

 

[bored of sc]

Music 2 and Music ext. scale well as far as I know. Music 1 gets left behind though as I found out yesterday.

Yeah, it was my highest HSC mark and only half of it counted in my ATAR!

 

[ajdlinux]

We don't want the HSC to churn out vocationally-bound students. We want it to produce scholarly, free-thinking students, who have engaged in intellectual, abstract, and eclectic concepts in their schooling, which they can later apply to whatever occupation - rather than those restricted in the world of whatever job they've been planning on for the past 4 years. The HSC has too many vocationally-driven subjects.

Absolutely. We have TAFE for vocational training, and they do a pretty good job of it too. (I have nothing against TAFE - it's definitely the best option for many people.)

The HSC is a memory game for some, sure, but for those of us who really try to apply ourselves it's more than that.

 

[philphie]

"knowledge which will prepare them for life" sounds dangerously like a euphemism for vocationally-minded courses. You fail to realise that 'life knowledge' is gained in so many other ways. It's all around us, we are taught it by our families, our communities, by the experience of going to school, in our relationships, sporting teams, and co-curricular activities. The HSC is doing it's job, and 'life knowledge' does not need to be its focus, there's enough of that to go around in other facets of a student's life. That said, life skills like working towards deadlines, organisation, and the value of hard work are all demonstrated in the HSC.

And how on earth to you validate this bold assertion: "The HSC churns out students who are programmed to do what they're told." I've never heard anything as sweeping as it is wrong.

this is how i interpret 'vocational' aspects in subjects. that subjects like modern history should have more assessments that require research skills rather than memory skills, a major work for those kind of subjects would be perfect. i know history extension has this but in my opinion it should just be the major work but obviously based on whatever topics are in the syllabus not just any random topic a student chooses. this is what i mean by a vocational and practical sensibility, practical application of knowledge. we don't need more students that can describe the entire history of the Russian Revolution we need students that have the skills to discover new information.

 

[Azarnakumar]

"knowledge which will prepare them for life" sounds dangerously like a euphemism for vocationally-minded courses. You fail to realise that 'life knowledge' is gained in so many other ways. It's all around us, we are taught it by our families, our communities, by the experience of going to school, in our relationships, sporting teams, and co-curricular activities. The HSC is doing it's job, and 'life knowledge' does not need to be its focus, there's enough of that to go around in other facets of a student's life. That said, life skills like working towards deadlines, organisation, and the value of hard work are all demonstrated in the HSC.

And how on earth to you validate this bold assertion: "The HSC churns out students who are programmed to do what they're told." I've never heard anything as sweeping as it is wrong.

I don't endorse vocationally-minded courses at all, I agree with what your saying in the first paragraph. As for the second, I completely disagree. School is about teaching students to work to specific outcomes and function in an institution. Free thinking isn't valued at all.

 

[ajdlinux]

I don't endorse vocationally-minded courses at all, I agree with what your saying in the first paragraph. As for the second, I completely disagree. School is about teaching students to work to specific outcomes and function in an institution. Free thinking isn't valued at all.

It's rather hard to run an educational institution where you're not teaching specific outcomes. But that said, you can work within those outcomes to encourage free thinking. (Yes, some HSC syllabuses could be improved in this regard.)

 

[suling]

Humanities and arts are just as 'real', important and challenging as sciences and maths. The HSC is an exam of memory and its single purpose is to churn out university students. It may be unrealistic but I believe we need a system which caters to all kinds of intelligence and prepares students for the real word.

also agree.

i would love to see how some of the people who do maths ext 2 and physics etc. etc. do in something like history extension or visual arts. How is it fair that just because some people have the (ridiculous) idea that maths and science determine how intelligent we are, those who don't do or are not excellent at these subjects end up with a lower result? (That is probably terribly worded..typing fast)

Seriously, why is being able to solve some ridiculous (and probably completely irrelevant to real life) maths problem apparently more valuable that having a good understanding of humanity and society, and having skills such as critical thinking and being able to communicate properly?

 

[Azarnakumar]

It's rather hard to run an educational institution where you're not teaching specific outcomes. But that said, you can work within those outcomes to encourage free thinking. (Yes, some HSC syllabuses could be improved in this regard.)

True, however curriculums aren't the only aspects of schools which value conformity and doing what you're told.

 

[ajdlinux]

also agree.

i would love to see how some of the people who do maths ext 2 and physics etc. etc. do in something like history extension or visual arts. How is it fair that just because some people have the (ridiculous) idea that maths and science determine how intelligent we are, those who don't do or are not excellent at these subjects end up with a lower result? (That is probably terribly worded..typing fast)

Seriously, why is being able to solve some ridiculous (and probably completely irrelevant to real life) maths problem apparently more valuable that having a good understanding of humanity and society, and having skills such as critical thinking and being able to communicate properly?

I hope you're not implying that most maths/science students don't have a good understanding of society, critical thinking or communication skills. (I've found more maths students have fairly good 'artsy' skills compared to the number of arts students who have fairly good maths skills.)

 

[chrisnumber1]

^ I for one feel it's really unfair.

i think the system is fair, sure for every god atar there is a poor one to match, but could you figure out a better system?

 

[suling]

I hope you're not implying that most maths/science students don't have a good understanding of society, critical thinking or communication skills. (I've found more maths students have fairly good 'artsy' skills compared to the number of arts students who have fairly good maths skills.)

No, of course not. I'm just saying that I don't believe that maths and science should be so much more highly valued than 'artsy' subjects, as I don't believe the skills gained/ required in these subjects are somehow superior.

 

[philphie]

I hope you're not implying that most maths/science students don't have a good understanding of society, critical thinking or communication skills. (I've found more maths students have fairly good 'artsy' skills compared to the number of arts students who have fairly good maths skills.)

i don't agree with her statement that maths or science have no use in society seeing how they will save us from global warming but i can definitely say i know a lot of maths/science inclined people who actually despise and look down on the arts and humanities.

although i am an exception seeing how i am equally inclined to both but enjoy the humanities much more