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Why do governments give young people a hard time? (1 Viewer)

volition

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My answer to the OP is that government doesn't just give young people a hard time, it gives many people a hard time.

Young people are one of the many groups that have become 'persecuted' against by other interest groups who want more power.

But it's not really that much different from the power grabs you see in business when they demand bailouts or favourable legislation/regulation.
 

boris

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Yeah gg man that did nothing but help my arguement.

Yes young people are over represented in crashes. This is an undeniable fact. But i said that L and P platers of all ages were overrepresented, this leads me to think that the main factor in the overrepresentation of young people in crash statistics is due to them having less experience and driving skills.

Which is why i said that they should do some sort of mandatory driving theory and/or practial practice before they go for their licence, instead of having their possibly useless parents put in minimal effort teaching them bad habits and often wrong road rules.
 

incentivation

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Yeah gg man that did nothing but help my arguement.

Yes young people are over represented in crashes. This is an undeniable fact. But i said that L and P platers of all ages were overrepresented, this leads me to think that the main factor in the overrepresentation of young people in crash statistics is due to them having less experience and driving skills.

Which is why i said that they should do some sort of mandatory driving theory and/or practial practice before they go for their licence, instead of having their possibly useless parents put in minimal effort teaching them bad habits and often wrong road rules.
Sure, inexperience is a corollary to over-representation. That doesn't reduce my argument with regards to brain development. It just highlights inexperience as one factor amongst others.
 

Riet

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That doesn't justify harsher penalties, if anything it suggests there should be greater tolerance for the lower ability of young people to assess risk. Mature individuals, fully capable of perceiving risk, deserve less discretion.


I think if they ran searches through venues frequented by lawyers, stock brokers etc, they'd do alright.

Why aren't there at least a few dogs put on/around the melbourne cup, other races and society events? I think the only difference in intelligence between the two events, is based on presumption.


The detection statistics, which show searches mostly punish the users, as almost no dealers are ever caught- which should really be the aim if anything, of searches. But that's another thread.


People aged 18-25 would presumably contain a large number of swinging voters.
There are dogs at rosehill every raceday
 

whatashotbyseve

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It was worse than usual at Randwick on Saturday. Great article by Claire Harvey in the Telegraph yesterday about racing and the bogan culture it attracts:

IMAGINE if they called off the horse races. Not the whole day - just the bits involving the horses and the races.

Sydney Cup Day could still go ahead. Randwick would continue hosting Derby Day and the Doncaster.

There just wouldn't be any equine activity.

I genuinely don't think the crowd would notice. Not the bulk of racegoers, anyway - the ones who put the most time and effort into their outfits, who look forward to the autumn carnival all year, planning the event with a precision and passion worthy of a post-Christmas sales assault.

They wouldn't mind.

You might get a few trainers who were a bit cheesed off and there'd be some annoyed owners - but the Australian Jockey Club could just cut them a slice of the extra revenue gained from turning that big grassy oval in the middle of the stadium into a dance floor.

It's the only honest thing to do.

For, as anyone who's been sober near a horse race lately can tell you, a day at the track has little to do with horseflesh and absolutely no connection whatsoever to sport.

Here's the diary of a typical Sydney racegoer:

Get up at 6am.

Reapply fake tan.

Sort out which "chicken fillet'' goes into which bra cup.

Decide it doesn't matter, as long as they're both pumping up the cleavage.

Ponder whether G-string or commando works better with maxidress.

Decide maxidress doesn't maximise assets and switch to minidress.

Start on Bacardi Breezers (pink).

Text everyone with meeting time. Get to racetrack and switch to Bacardi Breezers (lime).

Wonder aloud where that horsy stench is coming from. Go to betting window, but get confused about whether trifecta beats royal flush.

Go back to bar. Get a hot dog with coleslaw, cheese and extra mustard. Be sick. Lie down on grass for a rest and stretch legs up in the air to make sure shoes are still on.

Try to remember if it was G-string or commando.

Give up in giggles.

Leave track for club.

Really, the horses are a big, unnecessary inconvenience.

Anyone who's really interested in racing is down at the TAB, or watching at home on pay TV, where the fifth at Randwick is just a prelude to the sixth at Sha Tin or the fourth at Ellerslie.

To spend a day at Randwick, as I did, is to marvel at the sheer economic irrationality of it all.
I'm not talking about the crowds.

They seem to make sensible purchasing decisions: that is, minimise the amount of money risked on gambling, so as to fully capitalise the more tangible investment in booze.

"F@#k these c*&%s for a joke,'' said one chap, as his chosen horse came home last. "I'm not wasting any more money. Let's go back to the bar.''

See? Quite rational. The economic madman in all this is the Australian Jockey Club (AJC), which runs the show.

No wonder it's having financial trouble and boardroom brawling: it's wasting a fortune on grass and stables.

The AJC would be sweet, if only it liquidated all that palaver and focused on core business _ the marketing and retail of alcohol.

Every moment of the day was saturated in booze. It was almost as debauched and degenerate as my Year 9 social, except with less bothersome subterfuge about the quantity of hard liquor and drugs.

A day at the races is a blue-light disco plus gambling; a party cruise minus the meningitis outbreak.

If you're not trashed, you're not having fun. If you can see the horses, you're not having fun - and if you're not having fun, you must be a nerd-wowser who just wants to spoil it for everyone else. That was me.

Maybe I should have armed myself with mace and plunged in, like American writer Hunter S.Thompson covering the "decadent, depraved'' Kentucky Derby of 1970:

"Thousands and thousands of raving, stumbling drunks, getting angrier and angrier as they lose more and more money.''

Thompson woke up three days later, with no memories beyond the scribblings in his notepad, which he pieced together to create a new school of experiential, pharmaceutical journalism, called gonzo.

If Thompson hadn't blown himself away in 2005, he'd have enjoyed meeting the inhabitants of Randwick: the hotpantettes on Segway scooters handing out stubby-holders; the lady in black staggering down the members' steps, adjusting her scanties with one hand and talking on the phone with the other, all without spilling a drop of Jim Beam.

He could have met the young mother dressed in gorgeous vintage, the sweet girls on their hens' day with homemade sandwiches, the photographer who remarked how nice it was that all the girls observed the black-and-white dress code with their hooker-chic outfits.

And he could have peered with me into the Salvation Army donation box, where the cash was jingling merrily.

There were plenty of $5 and $10 notes - proof that these sensible racegoers know exactly where to make calculated investments for the future: drug and alcohol rehabilitation services.

Hunter would have loved it.
Couldn't agree more. This is why the media gives the youth a hard time sometimes. Because elements deserve it, and they extrapolate that a minority = the majority.

Re: dogs, there was also plenty of police and sniffer dogs at the entrance.
 
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iNerd

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life isn't fair
suck it up

their just jealous we have everything they don't
 

Graney

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Couldn't agree more. This is why the media gives the youth a hard time sometimes. Because elements deserve it, and they extrapolate that a minority = the majority.

Re: dogs, there was also plenty of police and sniffer dogs at the entrance
There'd be a spread of ages getting pissed at the races wouldn't there? I've never been.

I disagree they deserve a hard time though, it's perfectly legitimate for people to get drunk if they please, so long as they're not hurting anyone else. Let bogans be bogans. It sounds great, I'm glad such places exist.

Point taken about the dogs. I assume too much.
 

Riet

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I wouldn't dispute her version of events because I have seen it all before. But I was in the betting ring most of the day in between races on Saturday.
I work for the STC man. The betting ring has been completely packed all autumn. Yes there are some young people who go and just drink, but to say that hardly anyone has a bet is a load of shit.
 

born2pry

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Young people are, by definition, immature.
While there are plenty of exceptions, the majority of young people are too stupid, uneducated, hormonal, peer pressured or inexperienced to make safe decisions unless there's a serious deterrent such as the loss of their license.

They think they're good drivers. The bottom line is, they're not. It's therefore even more important that there are incentives to keep them alert and legal.

Many lack responsbility and foresight for the consequences of their actions. Without serious deterrents like the immediate loss of a license, the rate of P plater accidents and deaths would be much higher.

Sure there will be cases where a good kid will make a genuine mistake while trying to do the right thing. They lose their license. Boo hoo. It's a small price to pay to keep our roads safer.

As for the voting... get over it. It is uncommon for even an intelligent, mature 16 year old to know or care about politics. The majority of people under 18 are no where near ready to vote. The voting age should reflect the age when most people are ready, that's probably 18. For some, never.
 

Graney

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Why would loss of licence be perceived as a serious detterant, and death or serious injury not be perceived as deterrants?

Are you suggesting P-platers value their licences above their lives?

Why should the relative weighting given to these various detterants change with age?

I'm in favour of serious punishments for serious, life threatening offences. They should apply equally to all road users. The issue is that P-platers are now able to lose their licences for the most minor of offences, in ways that would not be seen as acceptible for full licence holders. P-platers can now lose their licences for any speeding, be it 5km/h over the limit. What does this have to do with protecting people?

I would argue people losing their licences for a harmless action, compromising their ability to attend work and employment, is extremely serious. If I get caught doing 10km/h over the limit, I would lose my licence. I would lose my job. I would no longer be able to afford food and accomodation.

There is no proof these new measures have done squat for road safety.

The 90km/h limit for p-plates can not be justified.

The 120 log book hours for L platers is unreasonable and unjustified. The extreme cost and imposition outweighs the very questionable benefit.

As for your patronising remarks about voting, speak for yourself. Intelligence and political discretion has never been a requirement for voting, and certainly doesn't exist in the wider population. I'd be in favor of voluntary voting, for all citizens, not just young people.
 
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CIV1501

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Young people are, by definition, immature.
While there are plenty of exceptions, the majority of young people are too stupid, uneducated, hormonal, peer pressured or inexperienced to make safe decisions unless there's a serious deterrent such as the loss of their license.

They think they're good drivers. The bottom line is, they're not. It's therefore even more important that there are incentives to keep them alert and legal.

Many lack responsbility and foresight for the consequences of their actions. Without serious deterrents like the immediate loss of a license, the rate of P plater accidents and deaths would be much higher.

Sure there will be cases where a good kid will make a genuine mistake while trying to do the right thing. They lose their license. Boo hoo. It's a small price to pay to keep our roads safer.

As for the voting... get over it. It is uncommon for even an intelligent, mature 16 year old to know or care about politics. The majority of people under 18 are no where near ready to vote. The voting age should reflect the age when most people are ready, that's probably 18. For some, never.
der

this is why we should be providing them with the training and skills required to be good drivers from an early age. So they will be good drivers when they get their licence. Instead of 50hrs of going 80km/h with some moron parent who doesn't know how to use a roundabout.

How is going 80km/h for 120hrs going to teach you the skills neccesary to know what to do when you lose traction or something? You only learn that through practice. I only have a fair idea what to do because im a hoon lol. How is some kid who has only driven around in the suburbs and shit and gone on the highway once or twice going to know what to do if they lose traction in a puddle or something?

Edit: Hosestly how hard would it be to make the L plate test a driving test on a skid pan or something?

And have a couple more tests like it that they have to pass until they can get their Ps.

No more of this putting around town doing the bare minimum to get their hours up, that has to be one of the worst systems ever thought up.
 
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SnowFox

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America has lessons during school, so why dont we?
 

volition

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We don't need more people voting, we need less people voting

and fwiw Schroedinger, I think I was practically a minarchist when I was 16 so :p
 

Will Shakespear

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i suppose you have a point.
i guess a lot of kids still in school are still readily accepting of the opinions of their teachers.
and teachers are unionists
which makes them labor supporters.
raise voting age plz.
One Big Union :cool:
 

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