why do people tell eachother the contents of assessed work in school? (1 Viewer)

[theonlyduffman]

Person A sits test. Person A tells person B what was on the test. person B targets his studies at the contents of the test; perhaps he rehearses some answers to questions. Person B gets a higher mark than he would've otherwise. Next time, person B sits the test first, returns the favour by sharing information with person A. Both of their marks improve.

This occurs all the time, at my school at least. While plenty of people view it as cheating & unfair, few have the balls to dob these 'cheaters' in. To be honest, I'd estimate three quarters of the students take part in this activity. I'm very interested in how people justify this activity/rationalise their actions.

nb. I'm asking this question at a couple of other forums I frequent. I'm trying my best not to write my opinions into the thread to bias people just yet, but any contributions - (Do you do this or have you done this when you were in high school? Is it cheating?) are very welcome and greatly appreciated.

 

[Sprinkles~]

Of course it is cheating, I don't really see anyway anymore could rationalise it to be otherwise :S

So many people in my classes did it, but there really wasn't anything you could do about it because you couldn't prove it...

 

[z600]

Conclusion: Person A is an idiot

 

[watatank]

It is cheating. Imagine if the HSC leaked out early and you got a hold of all the questions and used them as study. It's just the same.

People did it, but no one really kicked up a stink about it. It's still cheating though.

 

[Newbie]

its actually called teamwork

 

[Legham]

Person A sits test. Person A tells person B what was on the test. person B targets his studies at the contents of the test; perhaps he rehearses some answers to questions. Person B gets a higher mark than he would've otherwise. Next time, person B sits the test first, returns the favour by sharing information with person A. Both of their marks improve.

You just answered your own goddamn question!
Why else would they do it? For a cheap laugh? Cause i dont think they'd find that very humorous..

 

[theonlyduffman]

Thanks guys, there's a real variety of opinions out there, lots of very different ideas and angles ont he issue have emerged, which is very cool. So here are a bunch of interesting replies I've gathered for you:

[from giventowail]

Ament said:Cheating? Yes.
But if I did it I'd view it as a way to save time because you'd have to understand it anyway so you would have to put study in but you can focus on specific areas.

November Hotel said:Are the tests that both Person A and Person B are sitting the same? If so then they are both cheating BUT I'd be more concerned that the school is allowing the same test to be conducted at different times because you will always get Person A telling Person B and so forth.

If your school believes that students from different classes are 100% honest to keep the exam/test content to themselves then your teachers have their heads in the clouds.

[from cubed3]

emma&michelle said:i dont think this is cheating unless the person that took the test first actually gives the answers but its alright if hes just saying what was on the test

mOojc said:
I admit, I have done this a few times. I would usually have a good chat to a friend who had done the exam before me whether it was easy/hard and what am i expecting/ not expecting in the exam. Though my friends and I dont exactly give each other exact questions or answers, we just suggest helpful tips and such. I remember one incident at school where Class A did their exam first and got decent grades, while Class B and C who did the exams after Class A got top marks. This resulted in the teachers making the exams on the same day and time period as everyone else, to prevent the sharing of assessment information. According to my Maths teacher, this sort of behavior is merely collaborating, where you help each other out to a certain extent. I personally dont think its cheating. It depends on the extent of the information being given out. If Person A gives Person B the exact questions and possible answers, than this is certainly cheating, where Person B now knows most of the questions and can easily study and prepare answers beforehand. However if its more like, Person A just tells Person B if it was easy/hard and what to expect/not to expect without giving too much examples from the exam, i view this as a collaboration between the 2 people. This issue wasnt that serious at my school as it was only grade 8-10, where the assessments dont count towards anything. In grade 11-12 however, all assessment counts towards your OP (QLD system). To prevent this, all the exams from grade 11-12 are done in exam blocks where everyone does it at the same day and time to keep it fair for everyone.No doubt this sort of thing can be viewed as cheating and unfair, depending on the extent of information given. It is definitely an issue if this occurs during assessment that count towards your (insert state education system rank where no one should have an advantage over someone else.

TAG said:
When me and friends talk about tests, we just say, It was hard. There were several questions about _________. Look over that. or It was pretty easy. Just make sure you know what a _______ is and the difference between ______ and ________. We dont say Number one is C, number 2 is mitochondria,.....Thats not cheating in my book. If the teacher really thinks its cheating, all they have to do is make a few different tests (from changing the order of questions or having different questions over the same thing). Our teachers do that sometime.

Tin Can Man said:
Yeah, my friends and I pretty much say what you have to know for the tests, not the answers.

Balladeer said:
They lose out when it comes to the exams which matter. And the rest of us can always grass the cheaters up if were feeling malicious.

[from smashboards]

Pit 42 said:
I'd say it's a form of cheating, but it's not exactly directly cheating, if you get what I mean. Directly cheating would be letting someone copy off your test while you're taking it.

I do this a lot, partially because I'm overloaded with sh*t when I come home and the people in my classes help me and I help them because we all need a break. I guess, when you think about it, it is kind of wrong to do it.

Riciardos said:I don't see the problem here actually. Person B still studies, but only the questions that are asked. You could even question if it's fair that you've got to learn alot more than what you are tested.

And you'll forget most of the things that you've learned anyways.

Red Exodus said:I've done this once or twice. I do it because even if I tell them the questions they still have to know the answers, plus all answers aren't define, some of them require analyization [sp? can't spell today].

Kirby King said:not to rain on anyone's parade, but telling people what's on a test in advance is most definitely cheating. Generally teachers are willing to divulge the format and subject matter of a test, but if you're reading off question 5 to someone who's yet to take it so they can learn whatever it is they didn't bother to study the first time, you're assisting that person to artificially inflate his grade, undeservedly. Any time someone does something to earn an artificially higher grade, they've cheated. Just because you can make it seem mutually beneficial and it doesn't happen during the test doesn't mean it's not cheating.

Riciardos -- the goal of education isn't (or at least shouldn't be) gaming a system to know the bare minimum that you need to demonstrate knowledge of on a test. Tests are generally crafted to be representative of the type of material you're expected to know, and usually this doesn't include every topic imaginable for reasons of time and length. It's ridiculous enough that standardized testing has created an environment where teaching to a test is the norm--it shouldn't be encouraged any further.

notftomearth7 said: I know it's a form of cheating but it takes some pressure off being as my Bio III teacher is so unpredictable she should be in a mental ward. Yeah, but easy **** like English tests, that pisses me off. It's only okay if the teacher's insane!

Crimson King said:Cheating in school is the most pointless thing you can do because you aren't learning anything and you are assuming others know it better. In this case, though you are studying, you are only studying something specific and not retaining enough to use it in day-to-day life. I have cheated in College like this and have done worse on tests because either A. teachers change their tests per class, or B. the people tell me the questions wrong and I study it wrong. Just study and get a real education.

Falco 4 Life said:nall this aint cheatin. cause u still have to study for the test, this is like a review. it just tells u were to study to help.

now cheating is what i do. have a friend right down the answers then use it, or don't spend your time studying, but spend it makin cheat sheets.

i only cheat in every class when it comes to homework n stuff, then when it comes to test which i find it very hard to cheat on i usually study my *** off or just go to tutoring. this system as gotten me this far n i don't plan on doing anything otherwise.

Commonyoshi said:The teacher never intended for anyone to know the questions beforehand so it is cheating. It doesn't matter if you have to "study for the answers to the question" because you have an unfair advantage over the rest of the class. How is it fair that they are forced to study three times as hard just to earn the same score?

I think Legham's post most desperately needs a reply.

legham said:

Person A sits test. Person A tells person B what was on the test. person B targets his studies at the contents of the test; perhaps he rehearses some answers to questions. Person B gets a higher mark than he would've otherwise. Next time, person B sits the test first, returns the favour by sharing information with person A. Both of their marks improve.

You just answered your own goddamn question!
Why else would they do it? For a cheap laugh? Cause i dont think they'd find that very humorous..

Basically, yes, I realise people want to improve their marks, but I would have imagined people would also not want to improve their marks unfairly. I'd certainly hope that some kind of moral thought process goes through people's minds and guides their actions. So if you like, we can call the thread not "why do people do this", but "why don't people stop themselves...". So far, only Falco 4 Life has shown this sort of total lack of thinking or caring so far =D.

Just to throw another angle into the mix... my maths teacher about a week ago drew the analogy to putting first your friends or your country. Obviously people do put their friends above everyone else in the world, he said. He told us basically that it doesn't affect the school, so they don't make us sit SACs simultaniously that often. On a side note, he tried to convince us that the SACs shouldn't advantage people who know what the questions are about, but I don't think he really believed this.

 

[Legham]

So far, only Falco 4 Life has shown this sort of total lack of thinking or caring so far =D.

Theres no lack of thinking about it, just a complete lack of caring. Screw morals But yeah, i can respect why you wouldn't do it.. i just figure if its gonna make it easier or quicker for me, then i'll go for it for sure!

 

[Newbie]

morals has no part to play in the hsc
its all about the number at the end of the road

 

[ssglain]

The situation you described is cheating and there is no justification for that. My school tries very hard to make sure that if assessments are run at different times of the day for different classes, the first classes that sit the assessment are kept inside after theirs have finished until everyone from the other classes are seated so there is no contact between students. I think the school needs to take responsibility in doing everything they can to ensure no exchange takes place between students. There were a few cases of the assessments taking place on different days for different classes - we were warned to mention nothing of the assessment and reminded that if we do that we are only putting ourselves at a disadvantage. Someone above said that the number at the end is all that matters and indeed the HSC does force all of us in a 'everyone for themselves' position to maximise our own marks in every possible way so I don't quite understand why anyone would be stupid enough to decide to leak out contents of assessments.

 

[w00dy.]

its the HSC and everyone is out to get the best marks they can, and if they can do it by piggy backing off what other information people have leaked than they will.

some people are selfish enough to do it, just to get the better mark but at the same time they are disadvantaging themselves. because its not like any information will be leaked about the contents of the hsc exams. in the end they suffer as a result, and will ultimately learn the hard way.

its an unfortunate part of life, and something we just have to deal with in one way or another.

there is only really one way to stop that kind of thing from happening, and that is tell the appropriate figure that some students caught wind of whats in an assessment. and the contents may be changed slightly to make it fair game.

 

[cs01001]

The best way to do it would be in a hall, on the same time, on the same day.

 

[theonlyduffman]

okay, most people agree in the first scenario there was cheating, and that this cheating was morally wrong.

Plenty have people have said its wrong because you're getting an "artificial" mark which belies your understanding, but is it always wrong to guide your study by guessing what will be on a test? You may guess the contents of a test by logic (3-way simultanious equations aren't likely to be tested in an hour-long examination) or by asking the teacher privately. A more extreme example of this guessing would be to research where the questions on your first test come from then study questions from this source to help you in further tests.

So is gearing your study towards assessment cheating? What do you have to do to make it morally wrong?

 

[Gavvvvvin]

Who cares if its cheating? The same thing is going to be happening at university, not to mention the rest of your life. People will do whatever it takes to better themselves, the end.

 

[wuddie]

Who cares if its cheating? The same thing is going to be happening at university, not to mention the rest of your life. People will do whatever it takes to better themselves, the end.

hear hear.

we are f**king corrupted and that's the way our ancestors have taught us.

human always have looked for ways to bend the rules, to try and 'cheat' their ways to the top. if there is a shortcut, you can bet your house on it that we will know what it is.