Would you trade your HECS debt for a volunteer Youth Corps? (2 Viewers)

[withoutaface]

this is the last time im gonna post in this thread so im only gonna say this once.

as i have said b4 we live in a capitalist state ...so it is only natural that ppl who pay upfront would recieve some sort of benefit, in this case its a lower UAI.

and some ppl dont have the option of defering every academic cost onto debt in HECS and so must pay upfront in DFEE...if i could i'd defer to HECS. but i cant ! so im stuck with DFEE but because retards upstairs want to save money they are cutting FEE-HELP as well as DFEE which means i have to pay for my whole degree upfront which means some people wont be able to go to university because of (theres that word) financial constraint which has been my central arguement... so do me a favor and...LAY OFF!!!!!!:burn:

This conversation between us is no longer relevent to the original post..so stop posting withoutaface

What? I just posted agreeing with you...

 

[MJ-47]

What? I just posted agreeing with you...

yes u did but you also said it was "unfair" for someone to pay their way into uni when really alot of ppl dont have any other choice like me.

i bear no ill will against you, just stop posting about this b4 it gets worse =/

 

[КГБ]

get worse? WTF? how don't you have a choice? if you wernt stupid you would've got into a CSP course.

 

[MJ-47]

read the whole convo b4 comment...
with some degrees extra costs are incurred which arnt covered under hecs..which ppl have to pay off upfront...this wasnt a really big issue until DFEE's fee help scheme was removed now ppl have to pay these extra costs upfront.

 

[Will Shakespear]

this is the last time im gonna post in this thread so im only gonna say this once.

as i have said b4 we live in a capitalist state ...so it is only natural that ppl who pay upfront would recieve some sort of benefit, in this case its a lower UAI.

and some ppl dont have the option of defering every academic cost onto debt in HECS and so must pay upfront in DFEE...if i could i'd defer to HECS. but i cant ! so im stuck with DFEE but because retards upstairs want to save money they are cutting FEE-HELP as well as DFEE which means i have to pay for my whole degree upfront which means some people wont be able to go to university because of (theres that word) financial constraint which has been my central arguement... so do me a favor and...LAY OFF!!!!!!:burn:

This conversation between us is no longer relevent to the original post..so stop posting withoutaface

did you ever think maybe university just isn't for you?

 

[КГБ]

MJ, uni isnt for you. go pick up a trade. maybe a plumber?

 

[withoutaface]

yes u did but you also said it was "unfair" for someone to pay their way into uni when really alot of ppl dont have any other choice like me.

i bear no ill will against you, just stop posting about this b4 it gets worse =/

I was mocking the socialists who are of the opinion that because Person A can pay their way in it somehow diminishes the publicly funded experience of Person B. I don't think DFEE is unfair at all, in fact it's an eminently sensible way of dealing with demand in excess of what the government itself is willing to fund.

 

[Riet]

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need!

 

[Silver Persian]

I doubt that the Corps would be full-time. You tally up your hours, do a lot of good and wack it on your CV. Even though we'd have some interest in doing it, I assume that it is aimed at fostering life-long commitments to community involvement
Idealistic stuff! But by all means, continue squirming you rabid selfish cunts

.

 

[badquinton304]

I was mocking the socialists who are of the opinion that because Person A can pay their way in it somehow diminishes the publicly funded experience of Person B. I don't think DFEE is unfair at all, in fact it's an eminently sensible way of dealing with demand in excess of what the government itself is willing to fund.

It is not quite as simple as supply and demand. We need to have the right people.

Does anyone know if Howard paid his way into law? Because I have heard that before but I am not certain if its true so I need confirmation. I know he was poor at analytical and logical things so he relied more on memory at school.

 

[withoutaface]

It is not quite as simple as supply and demand. We need to have the right people.

Does anyone know if Howard paid his way into law? Because I have heard that before but I am not certain if its true so I need confirmation. I know he was poor at analytical and logical things so he relied more on memory at school.

But that's missing the point. You already have the 'right people' in the HECS places. The additional DFEE students don't detract from the fact that these right people are already there.

 

[Enteebee]

Alternatives to this:

1. Pay others more in wages than you're giving HECS kids in discounts.
2. Old people starve.

I'd like to hear more about this second alternative...

It is not quite as simple as supply and demand. We need to have the right people.

You're an idiot. If anything DFEE places make it so that you can afford to provide MORE HECS places... and it's not like you can get a degree if you're not made of 'the right stuff', you after all have to complete your actual degree. But nah obviously it's unfair to take NO places away from poorer students, provide students who have the money with an alternative way to do their course (giving us more of X profession if they are indeed competent enough to complete the degree) and provide more funds to ailing universities (a kid who would have done B Engineering, not really liked it as much anyway and cost tax payers extra $$$ is supplemented with a kid who gets into the course he/she wants and takes absolutely no money away from the taxpayers thus saving us the potential cost).

HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRrrrrr

 

[withoutaface]

I'd like to hear more about this second alternative...



You're an idiot. If anything DFEE places make it so that you can afford to provide MORE HECS places... and it's not like you can get a degree if you're not made of 'the right stuff', you after all have to complete your actual degree. But nah obviously it's unfair to take NO places away from poorer students, provide students who have the money with an alternative way to do their course (giving us more of X profession if they are indeed competent enough to complete the degree) and provide more funds to ailing universities (a kid who would have done B Engineering, not really liked it as much anyway and cost tax payers extra $$$ is supplemented with a kid who gets into the course he/she wants and takes absolutely no money away from the taxpayers thus saving us the potential cost).

HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRrrrrr

What? Why are you directing that at me?

 

[Trefoil]

This thread is so fucking confusing.

 

[Enteebee]

What? Why are you directing that at me?

I meant that for: "It is not quite as simple as supply and demand. We need to have the right people."

 

[badquinton304]

But that's missing the point. You already have the 'right people' in the HECS places. The additional DFEE students don't detract from the fact that these right people are already there.

The right people are in regardless, but people who are not suited will also come through because of DFEE, the university grading system will not simply ensure that anyone who passes will be suitable, you need a 50 to pass uni. The UAI system and then the university grading systerm best ensures that the people that end up with a certain degree are suited for it.
Could they offer additional HECS places instead of DFEE.

Also generally how much do they lower UAI requirements for DFEE, I mean if its by a small percentage (about 1%, 2% is pushing it) then I do not really mind but if someone applys for coures with reqirement 95 and they get in with 88 then its a problem.

 

[blue_chameleon]

The right people are in regardless, but people who are not suited will also come through because of DFEE, the university grading system will not simply ensure that anyone who passes will be suitable, you need a 50 to pass uni. The UAI system and then the university grading systerm best ensures that the people that end up with a certain degree are suited for it.
Could they offer additional HECS places instead of DFEE.

Also generally how much do they lower UAI requirements for DFEE, I mean if its by a small percentage (about 1%, 2% is pushing it) then I do not really mind but if someone applys for coures with reqirement 95 and they get in with 88 then its a problem.

Um, no.

Firstly, UAI isn't the only thing that will get you into a university course these days.

Secondly, needing 50 to pass and be awarded a degree (excl. med, actuary etc) means that there are people out there that have degrees and in essence they can apply only half the knowledge they learnt at university as opposed to what was taught to them.

Just because someone is awarded a degree, doesn't then mean they are suited to it.

All this is a bit off the point of the the OP discussion though.

 

[badquinton304]

Um, no.

Firstly, UAI isn't the only thing that will get you into a university course these days.

Secondly, needing 50 to pass and be awarded a degree (excl. med, actuary etc) means that there are people out there that have degrees and in essence they can apply only half the knowledge they learnt at university as opposed to what was taught to them.

Just because someone is awarded a degree, doesn't then mean they are suited to it.

All this is a bit off the point of the the OP discussion though.

Yeah I know they use UAI first filter but then after the person goes through the course they have final exam second filter. I do not mean that they are done at the same time first.

 

[Hagaren]

The right people are in regardless, but people who are not suited will also come through because of DFEE, the university grading system will not simply ensure that anyone who passes will be suitable, you need a 50 to pass uni.

The UAI system and then the university grading systerm best ensures that the people that end up with a certain degree are suited for it.
Could they offer additional HECS places instead of DFEE.

Also generally how much do they lower UAI requirements for DFEE, I mean if its by a small percentage (about 1%, 2% is pushing it) then I do not really mind but if someone applys for coures with reqirement 95 and they get in with 88 then its a problem.

How do people contrive such incomprehensible opinions... informed perspectives are a great thing.

"but people who are not suited will also come through because of DFEE" if anyone wants to pay this much to do a course let them... most people argue that it goes against the ideals of education being an equal opportunity playing field (which it in no way is anyway) as long as the amount of places is limited i don't think it's a bad thing. A lot of DFEE places where places that would have otherwise not existed.

"The UAI system and then the university grading systerm best ensures that the people that end up with a certain degree are suited for it." What. The. Fuck. Please tell me you deliberately inserted this as a catalyst for discussion otherwise i seriously question your aptitude for any degree.

"Could they offer additional HECS places instead of DFEE." they government intends to with increased funding..."The Commonwealth Government has announced that it will phase out undergraduate domestic fee-paying (DFEE) courses from 1 January 2009. This means there will be no DFEE courses available for 2009 admissions.* Therefore, DFEE courses will not be listed in table 1 of the UAC 2009 Guide (apart from some courses currently under review).

The Government announced in the 2008-09 Budget that funding will be provided for up to 11 000 new Commonwealth-supported places by 2011 to replace DFEE places. *There are some exceptions, including arrangements for continuing and deferred students, for students who enrol in employer reserved places, and for students who have consumed their Student Learning Entitlement."

http://www.uac.edu.au/career/files/uacnews_june08.pdf​

 

[whatashotbyseve]

Continuing off topic, I think you should need a minimum UAI of 70 to study at any tertiary institution. University education should be regarded as a privilege, not a right. And, if you are not in that top 30% of the state, you are not initially equipped to go to university.

By all means, go to TAFE, attend a college, wait a year or two for mature entry and then enter university. But the number of people who I see at university who lack basic English grammar (as one example) is galling.