Do you support the use of Torture ? (3 Viewers)

[Iron]

Seriously, the terrified reaction that even the mention of torture gets from Zimmerman and Graney is ample reason to institute it yesterday

It would work I tell you

 

[pman]

Zim, u r right there but u still can't give someone there life back after u imprison them for a couple of years

 

[Silver Persian]

I feel that these discussions about whether torture reduces recidivism, harms the torturer etc are irrelevant.

Torture is something done to benefit the nation as a whole. If this hurts a few people, so be it.

 

[moll.]

Your assumptions are still unproved. You say personal evidence, then don't even go on to give one example. Here are some of the drawbacks of what you are suggesting:

-Psychological toll on the people who perform the torture.

Unproven. Anecdotal evidence suggests otehrwise.

-Psychological toll on the family of the convicted person knowing that they are being tortured.

Again, unproven. Minimal at worst.
What about the psychological toll on the family of the victim/s? It would only be appied to those with the most serious of crimes, which would normally mean more than one murder. Argument from logic would mean that alleviating the fear and sorrow of two or more families would be better than evading the damage to one.

-Possibility that the convict is later proven innocent. The psychological damage from the torture may make them so angry, hateful and emotionally destroyed that even though they were initially innocent, they have no real chance of being able to re-integrate into normal society.

I'm not advocating this for all felony crimes. It would be applied in a similar manner to the death penalty; sparingly and only when the entire length of the justice system had been worked through.
This would naturally mean it is only applied to cases where it is beyond all doubt, not just reasonable doubt.

You seem to assume that once someone commits certain crimes, we no longer need to treat them as a human being.

You have provided no evidence that torturing them would make anyone better off, but we can be certain that it would make those who are being tortured much worse off.

They (serial killers etc.) have violated the inalienable right of other human beings to a life of peace and security. They must in turn have their peace and security rescinded.

From a utilitarian perspective you are creating a lot of human suffering for a gain that is speculative at best.

The human suffering created is also speculative at best.

 

[moll.]

Torture by definition is the infliction of suffering.

We're not counting the actual felon being tortured. Him suffering is the whole point.

 

[Silver Persian]

The human suffering created is also speculative at best.

Well, exactly. In these modern times, who are we to make the claim that torture is painful?

This claim sounds like a modernist metanarrative imo.

 

[Venetiad]

Unfortunately most terrorists are Islamic today (IRA aren't, obviously), and their faith sets them on the course for Matyrdom (if they've reached that kind of hight in their approach to the situation) if they're captured and tortured.

No, doesn't work.

Also, has only seen the Criminal Minds episode with the Islamic Terror Cell. Really good one, relates perfectly with this.

 

[Omium]

Detailing methods used to question al-Qaeda terror suspects, the memos reveal the use of dietary manipulation, forced nudity, facial and abdominal slaps, and the use of confined or "stress positions" for suspects.

In one technique known as "walling", interrogators could push a suspect against a false wall, so his shoulder blades make a slamming noise and make him think the impact is greater than in reality.

The memos also show interrogators asked for a ruling on whether the placing of a harmless insect in a cramped box with al-Qaeda terror suspect Abu Zubaydah equated to torture.

The technique "certainly does not cause physical pain" and therefore could not be termed as torture and should be permissible, one of the memos said.

Similarly, techniques included waterboarding or simulated drowning, walling and sleep deprivation also fell short of torture, the memos said.

Another memo details a "prototypical interrogation", which begins with a detainee stripped of his clothes, shackled, and hooded, "with the walling collar over his head and around his neck".

Barack Obama releases Bush administration memos on approved CIA interrogation tactics | World News | News.com.au


This isn't "torture" ?

 

[Sir-BigBoyJames]

barack obama is the black bush.

 

[Uncle]

Barack Obama releases Bush administration memos on approved CIA interrogation tactics | World News | News.com.au


This isn't "torture" ?

George W Bush is proven to be a mighty warlord.
A gun-totin' Texan.

In one technique known as "walling", interrogators could push a suspect against a false wall, so his shoulder blades make a slamming noise and make him think the impact is greater than in reality.

It's again merely saying hello.
Minimise impact while maintaining the agenda.

barack obama is the black bush.

I played COD4 today against some faggots, I decided to use the M4 Carbine and added a grenade launcher attachment with it like the IDF soldiers.
I named the configuration 'FUCK ISRAEL'.

 

[Omium]

George W Bush is proven to be a mighty warlord.
A gun-totin' Texan.



It's again merely saying hello.
Minimise impact while maintaining the agenda.



I played COD4 today against some faggots, I decided to use the M4 Carbine and added a grenade launcher attachment with it like the IDF soldiers.
I named the configuration 'FUCK ISRAEL'.

I've got COD4 at home, I completely suck at it.

Sometime we should play.....

 

[along]

Torture need not be physical violent to inflict suffering; it could be in many forms such as emotional, psychological, mental and even blackmailing is torture.

 

[moll.]

Torture need not be physical violent to inflict suffering; it could be in many forms such as emotional, psychological, mental and even blackmailing is torture.

In that case torture is used in everyday situations across the world by ordinary and average citizens. So I guess we all support it, because it would be foolhardy and stupid suggest that we are not all at some stage either victim or perpertrator or, more likely, both.

 

[Graney]

In that case torture is used in everyday situations across the world by ordinary and average citizens. So I guess we all support it, because it would be foolhardy and stupid suggest that we are not all at some stage either victim or perpertrator or, more likely, both.

Are you serious?

 

[moll.]

What?
You saying you've never fucked with someone's head for the fun of it? You've never blackmailed your parents into rewarding you as a child somehow? You've never left someone with emotional scars simply out of revenge?

 

[Graney]

Yes, I've done terrible things.

It doesn't mean I support those things, or think they're right. Everyone makes mistakes.

Everyone gets emotional and acts rashly at times. In the light of day, the typical moral person will admit they made an error of judgment.

Do you think Nick D'Arcy still secretly supports bashing people who tick him off?

 

[moll.]

I wasn't talking about supporting it morally. I was talking about physically supporting it by taking part.

 

[Graney]

But I'm not physically supporting it. I may have once, regrettably physically supported it. However now, I am deliberately avoiding taking such action, physically supporting the contrary action of non-violence.

By and large, most Australians do not support any form of violent actions ever, they are exceedingly rare in our society.

 

[moll.]

And neither do I. But I'm not talking about violence.
Often words can hurt far more than fists, and it is words which leave mental, emotional and psychological scarring.

 

[Graney]

But I'm not supporting that either.

I was including emotional and psychological manipulation, under the general term violence.

I go to pains to avoid such actions. It's not uncommon for people to be more afraid of hurting others than to be hurt themselves.