Catholic Church and HIV/AIDS in Africa. (3 Viewers)

[Tully B.]

The church is not intervening to stop people getting condoms if they want them, they are saying the American government shouldn't have to provide them. If you think you are moe moral than the church go spend your $900 for african condoms.

But are they not also telling people that using condoms is immoral? They must realize that this influences not only Catholics, but the general African community, right?

 

[Kwayera]

But are they not also telling people that using condoms is immoral? They must realize that this influences not only Catholics, but the general African community, right?

Particularly when Catholic heads of states of these countries agree with the Catholic Church.

 

[SylviaB]

The church is not intervening to stop people getting condoms if they want them, they are saying the American government shouldn't have to provide them. If you think you are moe moral than the church go spend your $900 for african condoms.

Oh yeah because most Africans readily have acess to condoms and can afford to buy them. Pssh.

And stop acting like the Catholic church is saying "Condoms are fine but you'll have to get them yourselves"

The pope himself has spread misinformation about condoms, saying that they help spread AIDS.

Preventing acess to them is one thing, but saying that they will give you aids? That shit is fucking reprehensible.

 

[Lentern]

But are they not also telling people that using condoms is immoral? They must realize that this influences not only Catholics, but the general African community, right?

You are narrowing a very broad teaching and compromising the message in doing so. Sex in the catholic church is a holy thing, an instrument of creation. It is not a social thing it has a role and a very sacred one at that. I think you'll agree its fine and dandy for us to believe that kind of thing so long as we don't demand it of non catholics? The church's teaching is that sex is not to be trivialised, it is for procreation. In that vain contraception is deemed immoral because it is done without tolerance of a possible pregnancy emerging. Any person who heeds the teachings of the church will not get aids unless they do so attempting to concieve a child.

 

[Lentern]

Oh yeah because most Africans readily have acess to condoms and can afford to buy them. Pssh.

And stop acting like the Catholic church is saying "Condoms are fine but you'll have to get them yourselves"

The pope himself has spread misinformation about condoms, saying that they help spread AIDS.

Preventing acess to them is one thing, but saying that they will give you aids? That shit is fucking reprehensible.

The church doesn't say Condoms are fine get them yourself, it says you want to live an unholy life knock yourself out but don't fund it with our taxes.

The Pope's actions I do not condone, I wouldn't have voted for him if I were in the conclave, but he did not lie. He put forward a logical, debatable inference. If abstaining is treated as the alternative then condoms do increase the spread of aids. The only thing that spreads them more rapidly than condoms is condemed with equal if not more conviction from the church.

 

[Kwayera]

The church doesn't say Condoms are fine get them yourself, it says you want to live an unholy life knock yourself out but don't fund it with our taxes.

What happened to separation of church and state?

 

[Lentern]

What happened to separation of church and state?

Well most of us about two weeks after we learned say ease the squeeze realised that life is too complex to conform absolutely to fortune cookie ideals like that. Others however still seem to think waving a knife aggressively in someones face while threatening them is merely exercising our right to freedom of speech.

 

[ablle]

If abstaining is treated as the alternative then condoms do increase the spread of aids.

lol no they don't. They'd simply slow the spread slower than abstinence. They wouldn't accelerate the spread, which is what the Pope said.

Search for catholic church aids on Google and this thread is on the first page lol.

In regards to the Church actively preventing condom use:
"In Lwak, near Lake Victoria, the director of an Aids testing centre says he cannot distribute condoms because of church opposition. Gordon Wambi told the programme: "Some priests have even been saying that condoms are laced with HIV/Aids.""

Also: "The Catholic Church is telling people in countries stricken by Aids not to use condoms because they have tiny holes in them through which HIV can pass - potentially exposing thousands of people to risk.
The church is making the claims across four continents despite a widespread scientific consensus that condoms are impermeable to HIV. "

From http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/oct/09/aids Date is 2003, though.

 

[Lentern]

lol no they don't. They'd simply slow the spread slower than abstinence. They wouldn't accelerate the spread, which is what the Pope said.

Search for catholic church aids on Google and this thread is on the first page lol.

Like double lol, it could. If condoms were to somehow create the impression that ex marital sex is ok the risks increase spectacularly.

 

[ablle]

Like double lol, it could. If condoms were to somehow create the impression that ex marital sex is ok the risks increase spectacularly.

And if they don't create that impression?

 

[Lentern]

And if they don't create that impression?

The problem is they do.

 

[ablle]

The problem is they do.

Not if proper education is provided and adhered too. Education which is undermined by the Pope's comments that condoms do not prevent AIDS at all (which is false).

 

[SylviaB]

The church doesn't say Condoms are fine get them yourself, it says you want to live an unholy life knock yourself out but don't fund it with our taxes.

1.Seperation of church and state. So we should stop helping people because it goes against YOUR particular religious views? Mind your own goddamn business.

2. Overpopulation is a huge fucking problem in Africa. Condoms reduce this problem, and this applies to married couples too.

3. There's no other way for them to get condoms.

He put forward a logical, debatable inference. If abstaining is treated as the alternative then condoms do increase the spread of aids.

The alternative to Condom use is not absintance, it's unsafe sex.

Look: People are going to have sex, regardless of their access to condoms. Sure, condemn them all you like for this, but why don't we give them their condoms, stop the aids, let them "sin", and let god judge them, no?

At least for the sake of the poor children to these people who are born with AIDS through no fault of their own and whose already short lives will be made only more shit.

 

[Kwayera]

Well most of us about two weeks after we learned say ease the squeeze realised that life is too complex to conform absolutely to fortune cookie ideals like that. Others however still seem to think waving a knife aggressively in someones face while threatening them is merely exercising our right to freedom of speech.

Actually it's pretty fucking simple. Remove church influence in policy (and why are churches tax exempt, might I ask?), and everyone's happier!

 

[Tully B.]

The church doesn't say Condoms are fine get them yourself, it says you want to live an unholy life knock yourself out but don't fund it with our taxes.

It's true that they don't say "Condoms are fine get them yourself". What they do is much, much worse.

In regards to the Church actively preventing condom use:
"In Lwak, near Lake Victoria, the director of an Aids testing centre says he cannot distribute condoms because of church opposition. Gordon Wambi told the programme: "Some priests have even been saying that condoms are laced with HIV/Aids.""

Also: "The Catholic Church is telling people in countries stricken by Aids not to use condoms because they have tiny holes in them through which HIV can pass - potentially exposing thousands of people to risk.
The church is making the claims across four continents despite a widespread scientific consensus that condoms are impermeable to HIV. "

Simple question; do you condone this Lentern?
And thank you, Abble. I did not know that the Church had sunk this low. Dully noted.

What is wrong with the Church shutting their mouths about condoms? If they did, no-one can disagree with the fact that the AIDs epidemic would reduce, right? How does this not equate to a certain level of guilt on the Church's part?

 

[moll.]

2. Overpopulation is a huge fucking problem in Africa. Condoms reduce this problem, and this applies to married couples too.

So does AIDS though.
Maybe that's the Church's perogative.

 

[Lentern]

1.Seperation of church and state. So we should stop helping people because it goes against YOUR particular religious views? Mind your own goddamn business.

The separation of church and state should not so far as to deny someone with theological inclinations legitimate political power which is what you are suggesting. The catholic church has played an enormous role in shaping myself and millions of other catholics and we have the same right you do to take part in the democratic, political process. It is not the end of civilisation as we know it for religious people to organise themselves and petition governments to execute policy in a certain way.

2. Overpopulation is a huge fucking problem in Africa. Condoms reduce this problem, and this applies to married couples too.

That's great but I was asked if the catholic church was responsible for the spread of aids not overpopulation.

3. There's no other way for them to get condoms.

The alternative to Condom use is not absintance, it's unsafe sex.

Yeah but it isn't like that. When it comes to catholic responsibility the two alternatives are simply you heed the church's advice or you don't. They do not. One aspect of the church's advice coincides with what is going on. The church shouldn't have to take responsibility for that, the church isn't responsible for that.

Look: People are going to have sex, regardless of their access to condoms. Sure, condemn them all you like for this, but why don't we give them their condoms, stop the aids, let them "sin", and let god judge them, no?

At least for the sake of the poor children to these people who are born with AIDS through no fault of their own and whose already short lives will be made only more shit.

The church isn't going to stop the rotary or another charity group or even a corporate group donating the condoms to africans. That is there choice which they are free to make. Real interference from church with state by the way would be if we somehow forced the governments hand and made them somehow block the donation.

But the idea of people who have serious moral objections to ex marital sex being told they can't petition a government not to spend their taxes on handing out devices that so encourage it when a more affective method of fighting the epidemic exists within the contraints of their moral constitutions? It's shocking.

 

[Lentern]

It's true that they don't say "Condoms are fine get them yourself". What they do is much, much worse.



Simple question; do you condone this Lentern?
And thank you, Abble. I did not know that the Church had sunk this low. Dully noted.

What is wrong with the Church shutting their mouths about condoms? If they did, no-one can disagree with the fact that the AIDs epidemic would reduce, right? How does this not equate to a certain level of guilt on the Church's part?

In answer to your question no I don't condone that and no self respecting catholic would. I'm sure Iron would agree with me on this that a far more significantand widely accepted part of the church's teachings than condoms are bad is that lying is wrong. If some maverick priests have said that you can be assured they did so against the directives of Cardinal Pell, against the directives of Rome and agains the will of a vast majority of catholics. It is a disgusting lie and it is one of those "John Howard knew about the SIEVX" arguements I was talking about before that undermines the arguements of a great many reasonable, intelligent people who care very passionately about the issue.


In regards to what's wrong with the Church shutting their mouth? About as much as there is wrong with people just not having ex-marital sex.

 

[NEO NAZI]

Can i just ask the nazi guy why he bothers?

i bother because u do me at night.


On the other hand, how bout we call a vote to see the straight up standing order of peoples views??

All those who believe it is the catholic churchs fault =

All those who dont believe it is =

 

[zarlaya11]

Sounds like your a troll with an ego as big as your post count, go post your immature comments in some other thread.

I'm actually asking this question because I've been having an argument with another member of this forum at school and now i want to get other people's opinions. After doing some research on the topic, I for one, do not believe the Catholic Church can be held accountable for a number of reasons.

The reason why people are pointing fingers at the Catholic Church for the spread of aids in Africa lies primarily in the fact the Catholic Church teaches that birth control is a sin. On the outside this may appear to be a just and valid argument. However, there are many holes in this argument.

Firstly, if people are so willingly able to obey the church's teaching on birth control, you would expect them to follow the more important teachings about relationships and sex. One thing that is common amongst almost all christian denominations and appears on the 10 commandments is that sexual relations are to only be undertaken once married with fidelity to one partner. So how can the Catholic Church be blamed when in reality people are not following its teachings anyway. They are prepared to follow the church's rules on birth control but still commit the unfaithful act of adultery.

Furthermore, by looking at the "The White House Initiative to Combat AIDS: Learning from Uganda" we are able to see that condoms are not a key contributor to reducing the spread of aids anyway:

• High-risk sexual behaviors can be discouraged and replaced by healthier lifestyles.
• Abstinence and marital fidelity appear to be the most important factors in preventing the spread of HIV/AIDS.
• Condoms do not play the primary role in reducing HIV/AIDS transmission.
• Religious organizations are crucial participants in the fight against AIDS

So, in my opinion it is not entirely valid to argue that the Catholic Church can be held accountable for the magnitude of HIV/AIDS. I do acknowledge that it may play a small part in influencing the decision making of some individuals. However, I still believe its the individual who makes the final decision and puts him/herself at greater risk by not abstaining from sex before marriage and committing sexual acts with more then one partner.

Lol WooOOOOW you have so much information. If you know all this, why do you bother asking a forum? Hahahaha...