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Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles (3 Viewers)

Kwayera

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Even the "desirable" traits are kind of wrong when you think of it. Difficulty getting an erection, inability to reproduce, loss of sex drive. Once you are released from prison you should have rights just like everyone else, right to reproduce, have a normal sex life etc. Its like saying someone is cured of their kleptomania by cutting their hands off.]
But that's the whole point. Remove the sex drive and you remove what made them criminals in the first place - inappropriate sexual desire. Without their sex drive they could potentially function in normal society.

I'm not for this. But I'm not against it either. Time will tell.


EDIT: And Serius, we as a species compromise on "human rights" every day.
 

dieburndie

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But that's the whole point. Remove the sex drive and you remove what made them criminals in the first place - inappropriate sexual desire. Without their sex drive they could potentially function in normal society.
You mean to say that there are no other psychological factors at play in a paedophile's decision to sexually abuse children?

Taking the step from sexual desire to abuse -an act which displays a complete lack of any empathy towards the innocent victim, requires more than just a biological urge. The sociopathic tendencies evident here would mean the propensity to commit crime wouldn't suddenly disappear with castration, especially with the associated decrease in self-worth. To say that such a procedure will turn a ruthless child abuser into a functional member of society following incarceration is incredibly naive
 

Daipire

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complete testicular and penal removal, imo.

fuck human rights, these dickheads are pedophiles!

edit: brand them on the forehead too.
They should mutate their crotches to look abit more like... this or this

But seriously, i think castration is a bit much, they should get forced into this massive psychiatry thing though.

Maybe third time offenders get the chop, maybe.
 

Serius

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Hhahaha. Jurisprudential genius right here, ladies and gentlefolk.
Did i say that wrong? Poland is a member of the EU, they cant make laws that go against human rights, rulings like that are illegal. Higher courts overturn the rulings of lower courts all the time, just look at what happened with the government trying to introduce those bikey gang laws, they were deemed illegal.

But that's the whole point. Remove the sex drive and you remove what made them criminals in the first place - inappropriate sexual desire. Without their sex drive they could potentially function in normal society.

I'm not for this. But I'm not against it either. Time will tell.


EDIT: And Serius, we as a species compromise on "human rights" every day.
Like i said, thats kind of like chopping someones hand off and saying they are "cured" of thieving. It isnt their sex drive that is the problem, its that they have something wrong with them psychologically that makes them attracted to kids.

Also, not all child molesters are actually pedophiles [and ofcourse not all pedophiles are child molesters], about 75% are, but the other 25% do it because they like power and control over others and children are weak and easy to control [this is also partly the reason why pedophiles attack too, but we wont get into that]. Castration wont stop this type from reoffending....in fact the anger over their forcible castration might make them more likely to attack, and it will be more brutal next time.

Then theres the rights issue.... once released, they kind of have a right to a sex drive, a right to procreation and at least to try to have a normal sex life with adults...how are they going to achieve this if they are castrated?

Oh yeah, just because we make compromises on human rights all the time doesnt mean its right and it certainly doesnt mean the government should be making legislation to do it on a regular basis.
 

mrsajmon23

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Us Polaks are a crazy bunch.

Australian Government should buy Dennis Ferguson a one-way ticket to Poland.
 

SnowFox

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Name and shame on the Internet, they do it with crooked fast food stores, why not crooked freaks?
 

withoutaface

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Isn't this the same Poland who are calling for Roman Polanski's release?
 

Kwayera

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You mean to say that there are no other psychological factors at play in a paedophile's decision to sexually abuse children?

Taking the step from sexual desire to abuse -an act which displays a complete lack of any empathy towards the innocent victim, requires more than just a biological urge. The sociopathic tendencies evident here would mean the propensity to commit crime wouldn't suddenly disappear with castration, especially with the associated decrease in self-worth. To say that such a procedure will turn a ruthless child abuser into a functional member of society following incarceration is incredibly naive
No I agree, it won't turn a paedophile into a model member (lol) of society, and I do agree that there are psychological factors involved (never disputed it). But rehabilitation and counselling etc aside, you can't have sex with a child if you can't get it up in the first place. That's purely what I am addressing here.
 

Kwayera

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Like i said, thats kind of like chopping someones hand off and saying they are "cured" of thieving. It isnt their sex drive that is the problem, its that they have something wrong with them psychologically that makes them attracted to kids.
I never said it would be a 'cure' to paedophilia - that would require extensive rehabilitation and psychological treatment, as I said. But as I also said, if you don't have a sex drive you can't get it up to rape a child. Pretty simple.

Also, not all child molesters are actually pedophiles [and ofcourse not all pedophiles are child molesters], about 75% are, but the other 25% do it because they like power and control over others and children are weak and easy to control [this is also partly the reason why pedophiles attack too, but we wont get into that]. Castration wont stop this type from reoffending....in fact the anger over their forcible castration might make them more likely to attack, and it will be more brutal next time.
Please attach sources if you're going to be throwing around figures, and of course in this thread we are talking about paedophiles. Why would castration make them more likely to attack "more brutally"? Castration significantly decreases testosterone production, which negatively impacts sex drive and violent tendancies. In which case, it would make them less likely to reoffend.

Then theres the rights issue.... once released, they kind of have a right to a sex drive, a right to procreation and at least to try to have a normal sex life with adults...how are they going to achieve this if they are castrated?
Do they? I don't think paedophilia can ever fully be "cured" via rehabiliation, at least not right now.

Oh yeah, just because we make compromises on human rights all the time doesnt mean its right and it certainly doesnt mean the government should be making legislation to do it on a regular basis.
*coughabortioneuthanasiacough*
 

Serius

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I never said it would be a 'cure' to paedophilia - that would require extensive rehabilitation and psychological treatment, as I said. But as I also said, if you don't have a sex drive you can't get it up to rape a child. Pretty simple.


Please attach sources if you're going to be throwing around figures, and of course in this thread we are talking about paedophiles.
Is wiki good enough? i learnt about all this in one of my lectures, i remembered there were 4 main types of child sex offenders, only 3 of which were pedophiles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_sexual_abuse#Offenders said:
"According to the Mayo Clinic, approximately 95% of child sexual abuse incidents are committed by offenders who meet the diagnostic criteria for pedophilia;[17] and that such persons make up 65% of child molestation offenders."
The figure seems to vary between 12% - 35% of child sex offenders who arent pedophiles. I also dont think its all that clear that we are talking about pedophiles. The issue often gets pretty mixed up, because Poland isnt targeting pedophiles [pedophilia isnt, and shouldnt be a crime] they are targeting child sex offenders. To the mainstream media and our general population this means the same thing, but theres a pretty distinct difference.


Why would castration make them more likely to attack "more brutally"? Castration significantly decreases testosterone production, which negatively impacts sex drive and violent tendancies. In which case, it would make them less likely to reoffend.
Only in some cases, and only if its forcible. I read about it in a better article than this one a while ago, but i found this just now:
Chemical Castration: The Benefits and Disadvantages Intrinsic to Injecting Male Pedophiliacs with Depo-Provera | Serendip's Exchange
"some experts argue that Depo-Provera is ineffective and will not prevent molestation. Forced castration may have the adverse affect of angering a criminal, increasing his violent tendencies and lead to additional sexual abuse"

Basically, for those whose offence had little to do with sexual gratification and more about deriving pleasure from controlling and having power over and torturing someone weaker then them, removing their sex drive will do little to stop them reoffending. If you forcibly castrate them against their will, they obviously will experience feelings of resentment, anger, rage. This is likely to be taken out on their next victim. You dont need testosterone to experience anger or to commit violent acts. Castration does make your sex drive managable [btw, they can still get it up and have sexual thoughts if they try hard enough] it reduces frustration and anger and violent tendancies, but it doesnt much change your personality.

Do they? I don't think paedophilia can ever fully be "cured" via rehabiliation, at least not right now.

*coughabortioneuthanasiacough*
I dont really know, tbh. I would assume upon release they have a right to all the normal things normal people have, it seems draconian to remove their ability to procreate upon release. Pedophilia can be managed i guess, there are plenty of pedophiles [the majority, actually] who dont attack kids and manage their problem. I am always skeptical of any claims i hear of "reformed" pedophiles. It makes me think of those gay guys who are forced to go to jesus camp and come back "straight".

Euthanasia isnt legal, even though it happens a lot, it isnt a good example of institutionalised human rights violations like this poland case is. Abortion is a better example, but i believe the issue is half side stepped in Australia, because abortion isnt "legal" exactly, there are just provisions for it if the mothers life is in danger, and those provisions are stretched and abused so that its basically decriminalised. Besides, theres still plenty of debate raging over whether a fetus is a person or not[still, you are kind of preaching to the choir]
 

Jack Burton

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That doesnt make it any less damaging and there are plenty of long term permanent side effects. Physically the side effects almost always include loss of bone density, loss of muscle mass[makes you feel weak and helpless] a 30% loss of strength in the muslces you do have. reduced body hair and growing manboobs.

Even the "desirable" traits are kind of wrong when you think of it. Difficulty getting an erection, inability to reproduce, loss of sex drive. Once you are released from prison you should have rights just like everyone else, right to reproduce, have a normal sex life etc. Its like saying someone is cured of their kleptomania by cutting their hands off.

Psychologically the effects are pretty devastating aswell. It basically destroys your self worth, makes you feel weak and useless, no longer a man etc. Depression appears in something like 98% of cases, suicide rate is extremely, extremely high.

These symptoms dont just disappear overnight once treatment stops, many of them never go, others take a long long time to sort out.

I am not saying chemical castration is all bad, because there are pretty powerful positive effects aswell, for instance if a sex offender felt like their sex drive and violence was out of control and needed a way to fix it, this would be a valid option for him as long as he is aware of the strong side effects, castration would allow him to easily control his sex drive and he wouldnt get angered as easily, much less prone to violence and less dangerous if he did.

What is wrong is to force this upon someone, it is completely unethical and against their human rights.

it might make them think twice about raping little kiddies
 

lolokay

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i'm impressed that poland has the balls to do this
 

Planck

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I never said it would be a 'cure' to paedophilia - that would require extensive rehabilitation and psychological treatment, as I said. But as I also said, if you don't have a sex drive you can't get it up to rape a child. Pretty simple.
Rape isn't about sex, it's about power. Regardless you can still easily qualify for abuse of the child without the use of functioning penis...
 

Serius

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it might make them think twice about raping little kiddies
Thats the thing though, i doubt they could be deterred. Its their sex drive, and they are attracted to kids, the more severe you make the punishment, the sneakier they will get. Once the punishment reaches a certain point, its easier and less risky to just kill the kid [i.e if there was the death sentence or life imprisonment for child molesters]. If being attracted to women was made illegal and the penalty was castration, would that stop you? I think most normal males would just secretly pursue their "fetish" for females and no punishment would really deter them from doing so...even if they did want to be detered, they couldnt resist for long :)
 

Kwayera

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Rape isn't about sex, it's about power. Regardless you can still easily qualify for abuse of the child without the use of functioning penis...
I am aware of this. Remove the testosterone, however (which is part of the sex drive obviously), and you also remove the aggression and violent tendencies that fuel the need for dominance/power.
 

SnowFox

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Sex drive "driven" by the hormone testosterone.

Testosterone created in the Testicles.

Remove the Testicles, remove the Testosterone, remove the sex drive.


How this is hard to understand is beyond me.
 

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